Casual Raiding and Patch 1.10
by Elizabeth Harper 
Mar 15th 2006 at 10:00AM
You've read the patch notes and seen the changes live on the
test server - so we all know Patch 1.10 is
coming. And one of the most unexpected changes - I don't think anyone predicted it - was the lowered instance
caps for Stratholme, Scholomance, Blackrock Depths, and Blackrock Spire. But are these changes going to be
positive or negative in the long run? Ukulkos from Khaz'goroth server makes several well-reasoned
points about how these changes hurt more casual players for whom this makes up the a lot of the end-game. Of
course, Blizzard also has some good
counter-points. What do you think? Are the changes going to be good or bad for you?Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
josh Mar 15th 2006 10:39AM
Good changes. The more people you add to a group the less difference any single person can make in it.
The best most fun and most difficult fights i've ever had have been 5 man groups.
The most boring tedious content in the game is 40 man raids, where it's easy to do things like read the news on your laptop off to the side while you take down what is supposed to be "the hardest stuff in the game" (laugh).
Raids trivialize individual player skill, and turn the game into "ok everyone press their 1 button over and over." Lame. This happens because mobs have to be made immune to everything when there are 40 people beating on it, so chances are only a few of your attacks are going to work anyway.
Best thing blizzard could do to this game in the long run is lower instance caps and make the content compatible with smaller groups. The only 40 man content in the game should be outdoor single bosses imho.
HalcyonGT Mar 15th 2006 11:04AM
This is going to cripple the game for casuals as well as gnaw at the mindset of raiders such as myself.
I was lucky enough to have four guildmates help me 5man LBRS so I could complete my Axesmith quest. We stopped at the ramp leading to the spiders because we had been in the place for 4 hours. Four hours in LBRS and we were only half way done. And we never wiped while there, we all know our respective classes very well. But I'm going to be less likely to return to Scholo, LBRS, UBRS & Strat simply due to the amount of time necessary to complete these instances.
Plus, for our guild the best way we teach newcomers to raiding is to run them through said instances. Now with most of the instances closed off from raiding...newcomers to raiding will be forced to wipe repeatedly and walk away frustrated with the process.
I've been given more and more reasons to quit WoW that its not even funny. God help anyone thats new to the game.
L'Emmerdeur Mar 15th 2006 11:53AM
Actually, I believe training people to raid by going through these instances in current EZ-Mode is wrong and detrimental. A mistake in a 10-man Scholo will most likely not lead to a wipe. A mistake made in MC by 1 of the 40 more likely than not will.
Going into Scholo with 5 teaches discipline and maximizes the involvement of every party member. Without discipline, there is no way you can do anything in places like MC. Sticking to 10-man makes the leader lazy (who cares if I don't lead? it's not like we can wipe) and the troops lazy (who cares if I kick back and give only 50%, or go afk without bothering to announce? We'll still get through in an hour or so).
And if things like leading, training and discipline don't belong in your game, then I suggest sticking to single-player, where not doing your best only wastes your time, and not the time of 4, 9 or 29 others as well.
If I sound hardcore, it is only because I've played long enough and suffered due to enough irresponsible players to realize that no matter how much we complain that it's "only a game", the fact remains that it is a multiplayer game, and no matter how much we try to keep it "fun and casual", we still have to deal with others, and our actions have an impact on the lives of others.
In fact, casual players should be aching to see content force their fellow team members to pay attention and play well. In the end, multiple wipes caused by one will waste what precious little time they have to play the game. The hardcore player, who can devote many hours to play each day, can afford to waste one of those hours. The casual player cannot.
Finally, LBRS should not take you so long Halcyon. I've nuked it to get people keyed for Onyxia a few times this last week, and we run through most of the bosses in around 1.5 hours (and we're taking it easy, chilling and chatting on teamspeak at the same time). Also, I believe LBRS will still be 10-man, as it shares the same instance entrance as UBRS - unless they separate the two into different instance entrances.
Oggin Mar 15th 2006 12:23PM
I think this will teach all of us what the full potential and the weaknesses of the classes we play.
The less desired classes will be needed more than ever. The warlock?s soulstone and debuffs will be in high demand. The hunter who feigns death and rogue that vanishes and that can use jumper cables may save the day. Pets taking aggro of players will be more needed than ever. Paladins, Shamans, and Druids will have to step up on their healing but also work on their debuffs and special abilities. Aggro control will be key. Let the warrior hold their aggro. Mages and Priests will have to balance their mana burn.
It was getting pretty tedious to do the 4S at every pull; ?Sheep, Sleep, Sap, and Shackle.? Every time a group got more than it thought it could handle and lived, there was a sense of pride and excitement.
Sure we are going to have to pay attention more, but that will also speed things up, as players are paying attention to the game and not the TV, websites, or such.
You are going to earn your loot, its no longer going to be a gift. Watching a blow out gets old fast, but you will remember those close games with your fellow players. Those that play well will be sought out; those that don?t will be stuck in the cities look for groups.
crsh Mar 15th 2006 12:25PM
I personally don't really mind the new caps; Scholo/Strat/BRD/BRS are doable in a 5-man group (which, has said several times before, was the only way to complete the non-raid dungeon quests anyway), it really isn't -that- tough that you'd need to 10-man it. We're not talking about BWL or AQ-level dungeons here.
On the other hand, I do feel a bit annoyed by the new caps because it means runs are going to be much slower (not difficult, just slower); 5-manning Strat (example) requires at least 3 hours, if not 4 or more, that's going to kill it for people who want to upgrade their gear but can't spend that much time playing every night (because loot tables are whacked and you almost never get what you want in 1 run; I'm curious to see how Blizz has so-called improved them).
All in all, while it doesn't mean much to me personally, I wish they didn't introduce these new caps for the sake of everybody's time and allowing everybody to find a group to run with easier. These are not hard dungeons, Blizz is not cranking up the difficulty, but I find the idea of making people spend even more time playing kinda piss-poor simply because not everybody can afford to go to bed at 3-4 AM every night.
Just my 2 coppers.
crsh Mar 15th 2006 12:26PM
Correction to my post above: BRS will be 10-man.
L'Emmerdeur Mar 15th 2006 12:44PM
On the other hand, a valid idea would be to make the instance harder, increase the number and quality of drops, and keep the current caps.
BartmanDK Mar 15th 2006 1:21PM
Well im kinda torn apart by this.. on the one hand i like the new caps becaus they its gonna be more of a chalenge to do the instance, and you can get a lot more quest lines done.. But on the other hand im gonna miss the no-brain-pick-up-groups!! :D
Stimps Mar 16th 2006 9:11AM
Overall it's a good thing.
The only downside for a casual player is that they're going to need *good* PUGs to complete the instance as a 5-man team, whereas at present with 10, a team could afford to carry a few people who weren't pulling their weight.
Any increase in drop rates coupled with smaller group sizes should mean a greater chance to get some goodies - although I expect people will still end up doing multiple runs just to get a specific piece of armour.
As someone who only runs instances with fellow guildmates, I'm looking forward to the challenge...
James Mar 16th 2006 6:31PM
I would think that 40-man raids should be for a "war-like" situation. Wars consist of numerous grunts plus a few heroes guiding them. If level 55+ are considered "heroes" (in word if not in deeds) then a big 40 man instance should be going up against a couple hundred enemies at the same time. Maybe make them all level 30-40 and each person should be concentrating on 3-5 enemies. I would think that would provide a completely different experience than a 5 or 10 man dungeon. Keep the 5-10 man for "boss" fights, and the 40-man to fight "wars". After all, if you're requiring 40 high-level people to fight, isn't that kind of an important event? 5-10 man should be equally as important, but in a different way than a big dungeon. My two cents.