Breakfast Topic: Am I a ninja?
by Jennie Lees 
Jun 13th 2006 at 7:25AM
Many of us have come across "ninja looting" -- the practice of taking loot that isn't yours, usually through dirty tactics such as rolling need on "bind on pickup" items. While this can be excusable at lower levels, by the time you hit 60 it should be a long-forgotten experience. Sadly, it isn't.Everyone hates ninja looters, and yet many players are swift to accuse others of ninjaing, to see ninjas where none exist. Recently I was accused of the dreaded N-word; as a feral druid I was acting as off-tank, and rolled on a +defense trinket. The rest of the group agreed I could roll, but the warrior only spoke up after I had rolled, calling me a ninja. He rolled need too, but I won the item. Shortly after that he left the group; I tanked the rest of the instance, and nobody complained.
Of course, stories like this are all too common, with hybrid classes complicating the issues -- even at level 60. Most people I've grouped with acknowledge that if a hybrid class is taking on a particular role then he or she can claim items for that role. However, imagine a druid who switches between forms a lot in an instance. Can she roll on strength, defense, agility, intellect and +healing gear? Technically, yes; but wails of "ninja" would result.
The solution? I've learnt to carefully spell out before entering an instance that I will be taking on role X, and rolling on gear accordingly. A better solution is to group with players you know, and good ones at that, who give you a chance at whatever you can use.
Have you encountered a ninja that wasn't? Do you hate being out-rolled by greedy hybrids?
Filed under: Items, Breakfast Topics, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
paul Jun 13th 2006 7:49AM
how about a warrior rolling on the lightforge breast plate. If you ever feel the need to play on blackhand be verry careful who you group with, there are alot of ninjas...
PodMonkeys Jun 13th 2006 8:19AM
Apparently my bro and his son are still working on the whole rolling idea. I've been ninja'd by them both the last 2 outings. (4 times in 2 outings) I'll run up to a chest, /roll, maybe ask "roll?", and wait 30 seconds expecting them to /roll, only to see one of them ninja the chest. I'm working on driving the looting instinct out of them, though.
Timmay! Jun 13th 2006 8:28AM
A better solution for your Bind on Pickup issue would be to have everyone pass on the roll, then discuss among everyone who should get the item. After it's decided, the person then just picks it up without rolling again.
Gus Jun 13th 2006 8:48AM
One thing that bugs me is getting into a PUG where the rules on BOP are not announced in advance. I was in a PUG in ZF where everyone passed on an item. I didn't know that the PUG wanted everyone to pass on BOP, so I had hit greed. I got the item and got accused of being a ninja.
Now I always wait to see what others in a PUG do with BOP, and custom varies widely.
Ghostle Jun 13th 2006 9:28AM
I've had some bad experiances with druids making me not like them in instance runs. When they have been exclusively healing and a rogue type item droped, they roll need before asking if I as the rogue need it. They claim that they need it for when they go feral. Apperently, they need it more for small situations whereas I will use it all the time regardless of the situation. You know how annoying it is to be out rolled on my shadowcraft gear to a druid? Making me angry just thinking about it
I have a paladin as well, and the rolling problem of that hybrid(hah) is not as bad as druids.
Bran Jun 13th 2006 9:29AM
I've always believed that if you can equip it and you WILL use it, you should be allowed to roll. The exception would be class armor set pieces. Yes, I know feral druids can benefit from Shadowcraft (just as one example), but if there is a rogue in the group who needs the piece, I think it would be downright rude to roll. It takes a great deal of time and effort to complete a class set, and there are always other options available for people who don't really need the set but just want the stats. I probably still wouldn't call the person a ninja if prior guidelines hadn't been established. I just wouldn't group with them again. To me a true "ninja" is someone who intentionally loots/rolls outside of rules agreed upon at the beginning of the run. If you don't have clear loot rules defined, it's the group/raid leader's fault. Personally, I won't participate in a run without a good understanding of the loot rules at the beginning, so there is no confusion. Different groups handle loot differently. Don't be afraid to ask.
When it doubt on a particular item, ask before you roll. If you are still in doubt, PASS. Whatever it is, it will drop again, and the hard feelings generated by an improper roll outlast the usefulness of the item anyway.
Of course any time one of these discussions comes up, someone always chimes in, "Master looter FTW!" This is certainly true in most cases and is probably the best solution if you're grouping with strangers, but I've seen master looters make plenty of mistakes as well...including BoP epics.
Bottom line: Even with the most clearly defined rules and the best of intentions, there are still opportunities for honest mistakes. Be very careful throwing around the word "ninja," as it's extremely damaging to reputation whether it's true or not.
Neek Jun 13th 2006 9:53AM
Yea it’s a tough one. Having leveled a 60warrior and realizing how insanely gear dependant they are I can see how he may have been annoyed. You have to realize that an item that may really help you out once in a while may actually be a necessity for a warrior, especially if he/she is planning on MT'ing end game for their guild. That said loot rules should have been discussed before hand and he should have spoken up before everyone rolled if he really wanted it.
thies Jun 13th 2006 10:05AM
"passing and dicsussing it" is sooo going on my nerves as it wastes too much time and doesn't really solve anything in regards to ninjaing. It makes it even simpler as the ninja can just take it. It's a game, just play, have fun and roll need/greed.
Stephen Jun 13th 2006 10:14AM
Shadowcraft is a perfect example of armor that benefits feral druids. Druids and other hybrids often have to defend themselves against the cries from other classes. No one complains however, when a druid is able to step in whenever the tank or the priest goes down. If the item is class specific, it will say so. Otherwise it is fair game. If you PUG, you should designate a master looter, otherwise find a good guild who understand equipping their players.
Mike Jun 13th 2006 10:20AM
Have any of you heard of rolling greed on everything boe and bop. This is how me and and all my friends play. We feel that if you really want the item you'll roll need. I haven't ran into any issues with ninja's. It does kind of stink being a resto Shaman. I'm always the last one to get to corpses to pick up the loot. Overall I haven't seen a huge problem with Ninjas.
BigDuke Jun 13th 2006 10:45AM
My favorite so far happenned to a guildee mage in UBRS. They downed Drak and the Magister's robes dropped. A Warlock in the party insisted on rolling need, and of course won it. Ouch!
Bill Jun 13th 2006 2:08PM
Our guild has specific rules for looting in major instances such as MC and BWL. In these instances the goal is to get the appropriate class geared appropriately for the good of the guild. For example, the Drillborer's disk is a hybrid item, but warriors are given priority on it. They have first dibs as it is MUCH more valuable to the warrior and the guild as a whole for a warrior to carry it, as opposed to a shaman for example.
In lesser instances such as ZG, Scholo, Strat, etc, it is a very simple...if you need it, roll need. If you don't, roll greed (on BoE items) and either a need roll or pass on BoP items. But we try only to raid with guild members or friends, as well as to lay out the rules very specifically at the start... also, people will let others know in advance if they are going after a specific piece of gear.
Finally, one comment on a more legal but still really annoying type of ninjaing to me. What about when you run an entire instance (say strat or UBRS) all the way to the last boss and then one member of the party has to leave. You invite a new person who then rolls need on all the loot. That is really frustrating as he just joined while everyone else worked for 2 hours to get to that point.
Marshall Jun 13th 2006 2:30PM
Passing on BOPs is standard in my guild, or for that matter, most PUGs I've been in.
I've never really had an issue with ninjas either, other than the occasional time when someone hits need by mistake. I think master looter is for sure the better answer for guild situations, however for PUGs it would depend on the leader.
A good idea as well would be to discuss your loot wants up front before running the instance... like if you're a druid and you're running UBRS specifically for Eye of Rend for feral gear, it would really suck to have it drop with a PUG only to get in a disagreement with the rogue whether it's "appropriate" or not. If you say up front "If Eye of Rend drops, I plan to roll on it", then you can get the discussion out of the way before spending 1-2 hours getting there only to get in a fight over it. Additionally, you'll have an easier time talking them into it up front, because if they say it's not a druid piece, you'll just go find a group that thinks differently, and now they have to go find some other person to fill your role.
andy Jun 13th 2006 3:24PM
Only been playing for a week and haven't done any instances, but I have played plenty of Fantasy Basketball. If a Bball player is dropped, then any Team owner can pick that player up, regardless of need. However, in most cases he is allowed to sell the Bball player to another Team owner for $1. Isn't looting just part of the game, that's why they have Rolls and not just pick-up options. Maybe this is just rookie talk...
Gunn Jun 13th 2006 4:33PM
For those of you out there ther standard rules are as follows. READ THEM
Roll GREED on all BOE items (BIND ON EQUIP). If it's an upgrade for someone roll NEED on BOE.
Pass on all BOP (Bind on PickUp). After everyone has passed /rand /random 100 for Need, followed by a greed /rand if noone Needs it.
A general rule of thumb for all PUG's or Groups with friends. Give the most experienced/Trusted person Leadership. On all Boss fights have them do MASTER LOOT. Because accidents can happen, make it clear in the beginning that everyone with no exception passes on BOP items.
As to hybrid weapons/armor. The fact is that on anything Pre-MC. If it's not a specific class item, and another class can use it and it's an upgrade. That class should be able to roll on it.
example: Magisters always goes to a MAGE! if the mage doesn't want it or there are no mages in the group and another class wants it then need /random.
If you play by these guidelines it will help you immensely in the World of warcraft. People will invite you back to play and you won't piss everyone off by Needing or greed rolling on a BOP item getting you blacklisted on your server and defaming your guild.
Thanks
Gunn
thies Jun 14th 2006 2:06AM
Standard rules? Good luck. You pass on a BoP on my realm you simply won't get it as everyone will just roll need/greed as usual.
jennie Jun 14th 2006 8:40AM
Indeed, standard rules vary from realm to realm. My main realm -- well, almost all the groups I've been in, as I can't speak for everyone! -- seems to use the Need/Pass system. Pass on BoP unless you need it. To be honest, I don't trust random PuGgers enough to give control of ML to someone who doesn't understand my class and what it needs. :)
Mike Jun 14th 2006 11:55AM
I Greed almost everything unless its a real improvement over my current gear AND fits with my class (As a warrior, I'm not rolling need on leather boots, even if I'm wearing garbage boots). Then I roll need. I say, if you can use it, then roll Need. If you don't roll Need, then don't complain about me ninjaing something because I rolled Greed. That's what the Need/Greed system is for. I don't see the need for everyone to pass and THEN determine who needs the item.
This is how I ended up with Whitemane's Chapeau in my first Cath run. I Greeded, nobody needed, so I won it. That's fair, IMHO.