How to win friends and influence raiders
by Jennie Lees 
Aug 2nd 2006 at 12:00PM
Being in charge of a 40-man raid group is undoubtedly a tricky business, and something I've yet to attempt in WoW. While I have a lot of respect for those who take on the mantle of leadership, who put hours into preparation and strategies and recruitment, sometimes the lofty raid leader can seem too distanced from the rank and file of the raid.As a new member of a large raid group, I'm starting to see endgame content I've been reading about for months, and it's an exciting time for me. However, this is the point at which leadership is crucial in order to turn players like me (full of enthusiasm but lacking in experience) into fully-fledged raiders. But how? The following observations may seem obvious, but I've seen leaders who ignore every single thing below.My main suggestion for raid leaders, class leaders, healer leaders and others, when welcoming a new person into your raid: help them feel at home. A raider who feels confused, out of place and unhappy is far less productive than one who has been welcomed and brought up to speed by a helper. Sure, everything they need to know may be on the forums, but raid forums can be huge and confusing -- how does a new person know where to begin?
During fights, if you know the new member hasn't been to the instance before, why not help them find their way through and give them a little background and warning for the fight? Simply asking someone else of the same class to help them takes the load off your shoulders, and stops them wandering around aimlessly. The new member may be proactive and whisper someone for help, but with thirty-nine new names, it's hard to know who will be helpful and who will resent the intrusion.
Finally, the most important way to help new members -- from my point of view as a new member, of course -- is to make sure they're happy, and to listen to them. If they're performing a particular role but they're not enjoying it, and you're ignoring their feedback, then you've less chance they'll come on the next raid. Plus, of course, every second they spend moaning in guild chat about how bored they are is a second they're not paying attention to your raid.
Some raid leaders and groups manage to make people feel welcome and happy straight away, others take longer (or never manage it). But as a rank-and-file peon, I know where my signups are going -- straight to the group that helps me and makes me laugh, and grudgingly to the group that makes me feel out of place. Being part of two distinct groups like this is an experiment, and one which looks to be nearing its conclusion faster than I expected.
Filed under: Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
B.S. Aug 2nd 2006 1:04PM
I wish it was that easy. I have tried it a million times and have been in about 7 guilds. Everyone thinks that mistakes cant happen making everyone wipe. The reason is instances take too long to start and way too long to finish. The rewards in the end are hardly worth it because everyone is going by a point system that only they can roll on items. So why should any of us waste our time to get nothing. Also they are looking for people who know what they are doing also. Remember people are GREEDY. I have seen atrocities take place like ninja, people coming up with excuses that they need to drop someone at the end boss of the instance so that there friend or brother can get the drop they need over the rest of us who managed to put the time in getting to him. Then we have the repair bill which is over 7gold for getting nothing. Don't forget the lag spikes and the game instances crashes. For example the guild i was in were doing Zul gurrub and we made it to hakkar just for it to crash on all of us. The messes up thing about it we wasted over 3 hour to get to him for nothing because everyone was waiting to log in or couldnt log in just to be at the beginning of the instance. Now how fair is that. We should all get reimbured for that. I say an item for each player. Instances made me hate this game. I would have made the cap at 20 man and instances no more than 2 hours to beat. I in the 2 years never been to the 40man ahn quiraj, Black wing lair, I recently had the opportunity to do onyxia and Molten core with a pick up group to wipe but the whole purpose was to experience it. Onyxia is by far the best 40man instance in the game. Now if Nefarion was like this I wouldnt mind. So to answer your question if your not in a starting guild dont bother doing instances.
Ryan Aug 2nd 2006 2:21PM
I'd take Nefarion and his class calls (I'm a Hunter, so Nef can be exspensive) over Ony's (still bugged?) raid-obliterating Deep Breaths any day. One thing that kind of helps a bit is our guild's philosophy and practice of raiding to see new content, not simply for phat lewt. Officers determine loot based on overall guild improvement. As such, we don't use DKP. The greedy players get weeded out quickly, and the hard-core raiders rise to the top (and, surprisingly, get phat lewt). It's not perfect (I still don't have my tier 2 pants...), but it has worked thus far.
I must say that wiping because of lag spike on Ony isn't fun, however.
Oh, and if you really think Ony is the most fun 40-man, once you see even the first room in BWL, I'm sure your mind will change. Luckily, getting BWL attuned is simpler than Ony attunement.
Ryagas
60 hunter
Hyjal
B.S. Aug 2nd 2006 2:44PM
Well I am BWL attuned. The thing is no one to go with. I have seen videos of BWL and the thing is it looks the same. The bosses are unoriginal and the path to nefarion without a checkpoint is exhausting. Also how can the greedy be weeded out. For instance a player needs the last bloodfang piece from nefarion. While this in his mind he is already to leave the guild and into the new one the instant the piece drops. Now the piece drops and he ninja loots it and leaves the guild. Ready for the greatest part. The person that leaves with full Bloodfang is the Guilds leader. LOL now there is nothing hardcore about that because he just screwed everyone. Then guess what happened the group fell. It doesnt exist anymore. Hmm guess what happened to all the items stored at the bank?
Swiftlydead Aug 2nd 2006 3:46PM
There's no ninja looting in Raiding
Michael Aug 2nd 2006 4:14PM
There is no ninja looting if you use master looting...
Ryan Aug 2nd 2006 4:59PM
Yeah, we use master looting. The greedy players pst the class leader, or (worse) the GM and guess what happens? He'll get a polite "please allow us to decide" message. If he still insists, a /gkick is forthcoming OR if he doesn't have patience, he'll usually /gquit. Patience and consistency is rewarded. Heck, even new recruits can sometimes get loot (they wouldnt in DKP-not enough points). It's given out to get people ready for bosses. Some veteran mambers don't have complete sets yet bcause of this, but the distribution is much more even.
You can argue that we gear a lot of casual players this way, but the good players stay and finish getting their gear at a reasonable pace. The people who have no patience and commitment leave or eventually, get the boot.
The previous scenario (GM looting then leaving) is a sign of a bad GM, not an inherent flaw in raiding guilds. Our GM is not in it for loot, he wants to see the new content. Heck, he could have a legendary weapon by now (Hand of Rag), but it was constructed for a member instead because of this and we're working on a second for another member (GM is waiting for Thunderfury, but no drops yet...)
James Aug 2nd 2006 5:07PM
I'd have to disagree with the article, and with the comments made here. I have played WoW for roughly 5 months, and have recently (about a month) joined one of the top 5 guilds on my server. When we are recruiting, we're not recruiting to find people that are necessarily new to all end-game instances (though we do -- like myself, being an exception). We look for people that we think will catch on quickly. The purpose of end-game guilds is to not baby people along. It's to progress and, as a guild, grow together. The majority of my guild is full tier 2 with AQ40 set pieces here and there. When I came, I had 2 epic items. Giantstalker (yes I'm a hunter) bracers (yay for the AH0, and my Amulet of the Darkmoon. Which I got both by myself soloing. I've been to MC at the point of my application to this guild, and am attuned for all (pre-naxx). I've watched videos and I've read strategies about end-game dungeons, even before I was attuned. I didn't care about the loot, I thought it was awesome to experience. The guild had already 1/4th of the people full tier 2, Nef on farm, and stuck at Huhuran in AQ40. Wow! I did not know what I was getting myself into at the time. I wanted to experience end-game, I knew my class like no other (or so I thought). As for getting help from other guild members, I was, in some way, "appointed" to a fellow hunter to ask most of my questions, in which he was always willing to help. Sure, he helped me out when I asked, but I didn't really ask too often. During my "trial period", I wasn't supposed to be getting any loot, but they ended up dropping me with 3 Dragonstalker's, Petrified Leaf (blue and black dragon sinews as well), a couple others (such as Nef's necklace). I was definately wow'd for my first time, the experience was incredible. Sure, it's not quite like that anymore since we've easily cleared BWL, MC, etc. within a day every week. But it's awesome to see the entire guild grow together. I look back at our new recruits and them telling me about their first BWL experience with us, it's just awesome to hear it. I was there too, not even too far down the road either. We're going to be going to Naxx this week and that will be one incredible experience as well. Sure, the loot and tier 3 stuff looks great, but the design and strategy is the most fun part. Yesterday I got my first experience at tanking (yes hunter tanking) the AQ20 boss, Ayamiss the Hunter with 296 NR, man was that an experience. As I stand with my Sandstalker gear, I say to the rest of you. End-game is an incredible experience. Don't go to a guild just because they are going to treat you like a baby and pat you on the back everytime you do XXXX damage crit. Look for a guild that you think will progress, a guild that works together. That's where fun begins. Our guild leader yells at us every day in a humorous way, and we like to play around and /gkick people then of course pull them back in. But that's just entertainment while we play.
Last words.. Guilds change from casual to end-game. It's not just a sit back and watch feel. It's an experience that WoW was created for.
As for B.S's comment:
That's horrible that a guild leader would do that. I couldn't imagine that, seriously. Though the guild I'm in is very well established. We've had a recent scare that the guild leader was going to quit. We have people that could definately qualify to take his spot. But nobody could replace his yelling at us whenever we wiped on Vael by screwing around. We also use Free-For-All looting, but they have great trust in all their members, which is awesome. They've only had 1 case (3 months ago) where a member ninja'd an item and left. It's funny cause last week it dropped and we DE'd it :) so /spit on him. It's really a preference for end-game content, but it's not for the faint of heart.
Ryan Aug 2nd 2006 6:37PM
James hit the nail on the head.
If you're used to sitting back and watching the loot fall without much effort on your part, you won't survive an end game raiding guild. We're expected to have read some strats, watch a few vids, and come prepared to work before doing a new encounter, or even one we've done, but if we have new people/haven't done it in a while.
Downing Nef in one night feels good, but it takes practice and preparation (and a small amount of luck on the Draconid draw...) We know that without proper prep, cohesion, and lastly, gear, we won't progress in AQ40 and we'll have a very rough time in Naxx (once enough of us are attuned)
Wow. I thought our guild was the only raiding guild who have some fun with the GM and kicks/reinvites. ;-)
The first time you see Nef's huge carcass come crashing down is something else (and the ensuing vent celebrations can't be beat). That's why you join an end game guild. The people who enjoy that stuff stick around and go far in our guild. Having fun is priority, but if you aren't willing to work as a team player, you won't see new content.
A brave guild master you have that allows free-for-all looting. The scourge of gquitters is nearly impossible to avoid, it can only be minimized by having a good team support system.
Luka Aug 3rd 2006 4:23AM
First thing to say to somewone who has never done any 40 men raids is: "it hurts the first time, and gets better each raid" ;)
When I started MC, there were no 20 people instances. I had no idea how an a group of more than 5 people could play together. I was like "oh my god, I don't understand at all what's happening here".
PS: Free For All looting here, of course ;)