Women In Guilds
by David Nelson 
Aug 8th 2006 at 5:10PM
This thread in the official forums caught my eye. The original poster argues that in his guild, the guild leader gives women preferential treatment, and while he doesn't come out and say it, he certainly insinuates that the GL is being friendly in a looking-for-some-love kind of way. I have seen this in one guild I was in, where the women were definitely treated better than the men. It got to the point of being awkward watching the officers flirt with these ladies night after night. On the other side of the coin, I was in a guild years ago during my Everquest days that more or less would not allow any women in. They felt that they were a distraction, as the (stereotypically) lonely Internet boys would spend too much time flirting and not enough time concentrating on the task at hand. Needless to say, I left that guild for several reasons, the "No Women" policy being one of the big ones. Not being a woman myself, I can only guess that women playing WoW, as in most other areas of life, would prefer it if they were just treated like everyone else. Most probably don't want special treatment, but they don't want to be ostracized either. I know a couple women playing Warcraft who won't speak on Vent due to the constant flirting and tells they receive when they do. I see this boorish behavior at work and at the bar, so I guess I shouldn't be shocked to be seeing it in a game that allows people the safety of anonymity.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
StAMp Aug 8th 2006 5:17PM
I have few friends who are really man, but play woman character. So not always woman in game is really woman :
perambulator Aug 8th 2006 5:25PM
Its the Internet - you can't really know if the person on the other side is really who they say they are. Also considering that there is no difference in stats between male and female alts and that there is a limited palette of character features, choosing the gender of an alt is more a question of esthetics's more than any personal identification with a computer generated image. Being gender discriminatory is just silly and even more so in a game like this. I have both male and female alts and didn't think anything of it when I created them (My wife suggested a name and it sounded more female than male so I made a female character). My female Night Elf alt has been flirted with which was very disturbing the first couple of times but I've since ignored it. I expect the maturity level of the people I deal with with vary and while I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, if they start acting childish, I just won't deal with them. It's not like I wouldn't be able to find some relative mature people out of the 6.5 million other WoW players!
Crystavis Aug 8th 2006 5:28PM
Actually most of the female avatars in wow are played by male characters, and most females play male characters to keep from being harassed. At least this has been my experience in wow.
Kaylos Aug 8th 2006 5:53PM
To the above posters, when you raid in a guild that uses Ventrillo or Teamspeak, it becomes quite obvious for the mjost part who is male and who is female regardless of in game character.
Aryel Aug 8th 2006 6:02PM
The situation depends a lot on the guild leader and officers - in my guild, we are about 1/10th women (as evidenced in teamspeak an RL meetings) and there is no problem either on TS or in guildchat. There is no unwanted flirting or such, since none of us girls would stand for it ;)
gunn Aug 8th 2006 6:20PM
Women in guilds do 9/10's get better treatment then men. It's simply true. If you don't believe me get your girlfriend to start playing wow. Both of you equally piss people off and screw up. See who gets booted first.
Also for that to work don't tell them you're dating or even know each other.
kerrizor Aug 8th 2006 6:32PM
I /dream/ of being in a guild cool enough to do raiding and Vent... I'd be happy to deal with the pervs for a little end-game content.
*sigh*
that's pretty desperate-sounding, isn't it?
naomi Aug 8th 2006 7:16PM
The highest I've gotten to is l45 nightelf druid, female - and I myself am a woman. I experienced plenty of flirting, and found it pretty offensive as I like playing solo and any form of constant unwanted communication is annoying - and when that is "want to sex" then it's even more frustrating.
BUT one time I did flirt with the person, because they had saved my ass from horde in Booty Bay. I thanked them, they flirted a bit, and so I flirted back. End result was 5g transferred into my account. I didn't think they'd really do it - but they did - and I felt quite like a prostitute, or as if I needed to be paid for being friendly and flirty in-game.
It was bizarre.
I just want to play the game. I don't mind chatting, being friendly, and even mild flirting (especially when it's funny), but I don't want to be treated differently as a girl - I want to PLAY THE GAME. That means no free 5g just because I blew you a kiss as a joke.
lady nerd Aug 8th 2006 7:47PM
Being (actually) female with a female character..i have had the following experiences.
1)free stuff
i've had random players (male) give me weapons/gold/armour for free. They were definetly twinks who had just purchased gold online and were trying to impress me with their fortunes *swoon*
2)special treatment
a player whom i had talked to/quested with maybe twice wanted to make me an officer in his new guild, stating that the lower levs would 'look up to me'
3)unwanted attention
following, flirting, asl etc....
all i have to say is..
bring on the free stuff!
/silly
Kabe Aug 9th 2006 12:02AM
As a girl who plays female characters, I've noticed less of this behavior in my guilds as I have in the rest of the game world. In my old guild on my previous server, there were easily as many girls as guys in the 250+ member guild, and everyone was pretty much taken at face value, both in the in-game chat and the vent channels. In my current guild, which is much smaller (we've got around 25, I believe), I'm one of only a handful of girls - we have maybe 4 or 5. Still, discrimination is something I've yet to see demonstrated.
In PUGs, though, I've seen it more often. I'll post or reply to an LFG and get serious responses, join or form a party, and then the flirting and jokes will begin. I've also been taken less seriously in instances and raids based simply on the fact that I'm female. It seems like there's an undercurrent of 'Okay, girl, leave the planning and strategy to the menfolk now!'. You're sometimes seen as more laughable than anything else.
It's not like it's ever gotten truly offensive or uncomfortable, though. Often the /kiss, /hug, and /flirt emotes are all in good fun, and any slightly raunchy comments I usually play back to them just as strangely. Gotta keep an instance interesting somehow, huh?
Becca Aug 9th 2006 1:00AM
I agree - PUG's are the main place I've had problems. Once people figured out I was a girl, I got a lot of harrassment in the form of flirting and comments I didn't appreciate...
I have also had a few problems in guilds with immature members flirting with me constantly (and not in the cute, friendly way, but the annoying way), causing me to search for a guild with an age minimum of 18. My current guild is the greatest thing I've come across in WoW - there are lots of couples, girls, and really cool guys and I have yet to have a problem with even the least bit of flirting. (Though it may help that my boyfriend is in the guild as well ;D)
kossori Aug 9th 2006 6:04AM
i have to say i've been in some amazing guilds. both in wow and other mmo's. no i'm not naive about how i've been treated. since most female toons are played by men/boys and most men/boys know that, i've been treated as just another player. i don't let my sex be known until i've developed a raport and respect from my guildmates/friends.
as a female in real life, i might get special treatment. but as a gamer, i have the experience to say i am treated as a gamer - both online and irl. i believe if you are or are pretending to be female just to get perks, you are only equal to the prostitute hanging around the four-corners of your town at 2 in the morning.
have some respect for yourself and pride in your skill and you will find that anything you do will be more rewarding.
- [kossori hana.]
Deafdumbandblind Aug 9th 2006 6:36AM
If more male players had female characters I think there would be less of a problem becuase people will expect a male player.
That means the only other means of discovery is if the femal players give themselves away e.g. by talking about shopping, doing their hair, etc. (Joke!)
Women get more hassle because WoW & RP games are generally designed for males and thus women players are rarer. Hence, when a real woman is discovered some of the poor little nerdies can't control themselves - bless!
I'm a male and 3 out of my 7 chars are females. I've only had the "are you a chick IRL?" once and took great pleasure in telling him "no" espcially since he had stripped to his underpants and was dancing like an idiot!
However, I'm unusually brutal on idiots in WoW. I've disabled all channels except Local defense and any stupid questions or duel challenges are met with a tirade of abuse. Well! I'm on a PVE server - you want to PVP go play on a pvp server.
If you truly want to avoid flirty attention as a female char then be generally rude and swear alot. Sad but true
Mordiceius Aug 9th 2006 11:06AM
I am in a very large end-game raiding guild (300+ players) and we actually have a decent population of females (in our 40 man raids, we can have as many as 5-8 females). The thing is, most of them are wifes/girlfriends/friends of other players IRL. They are always treated with the proper respect that you treat a female. Of course the raid leader will be kinder to them than another guy, but *shrug* it really doesn't bother me. They get reprimanded with they screw up too.
Mike Aug 9th 2006 2:27PM
Well, both my current guild and my previous guild were ran by women. Both are end game guilds including my current which is 2 bosses into AQ40 atm. Needless to say any disrespectful comments or actions towards women are taken care of and I'm glad that they are.
For the record, I'm a guy. :)
Losic Aug 9th 2006 6:57PM
As a girl IRL I have yet to really run into the free stuff and preferential treatment that everyone keeps talking about. I have a feeling however that this may have to do with the fact that I have a female tauren char as opposed to something that would be considered more attractive like a NE. I do however avoid Vent simply due to the homophobic, racist, and sexist comments that I have encountered before. I know not all guilds are like that, but I like everyone else just want to enjoy playing the game, and as was said, want to be treated like everyone else.
Lomax Aug 11th 2006 2:19AM
My fiance is a pretty hottie with a nice body who made the mistake of posting pics of the two of us (we play wow together) in our guild forums. After doing so there was constant flirting with her from then on and I even started getting a somewhat cold treatment, as if I was in the way of them getting to my lady. On the downside she was taken more seriously before they knew what she looked like, or that she actually was indeed a girl. After seeing her pics they all wanted to do nice things for her all the time but didn't really listen to her input any more (i.e. raid strategy etc.) despite her playing the game since the Friends and Family alpha test with me.
We have since left that server and play on another, she doesn't talk on Vent and doesn't show anyone pics. But people act more "normal" now with her and she's much happier playing. It's nice to know people like you for what you say and not how you look. She's a smart girl so she does deserve to be heard not just objectified.
I have however run into my fair share of girls in wow who enjoy the objectification. My guess is, they are really guys. We had a few in that guild as well, and they suddenly developed "bisexual" tendancies around my fiance and were hitting on her too (yeah right, more like they weren't really girls).
Danielle Oct 12th 2006 4:33PM
Most women in my guild are either a) married or gilfriend to one of the guildies or b)a relative of one of the guildies or c) the child of one of the guildies.
Its a really amazing and friendly guild where I cant sense any preference towards women. Each guild member does what they have to, and there all there is to it.
On the other hand, when it comes to leading a raid, it is very diffucult for a woman to be authoritive enough to get attention from the male part of the guild...I've experienced this first hand...But then again, maybe I'm just not the authoritive type!