Should Blizzard End Twinking For Good?
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 18th 2006 at 12:17AM
Own over on Spinebreaker asks an interesting question: is twinking good for the game? Twinking (I'm not sure if there's anyone out there that doesn't know what this is yet, but there might be one or two of you) is the process of using a higher level alt (or sometimes just a good friend) to overpower a lower level character. It's the reason why sometimes you'll see level 19s in WSG with almost all blue gear, and enchants that cost tons of money-- of course, they're out there ripping up the lesser equipped competition because they've been beefed up by a higher level alt.Now, Own says it's a terrible thing for the game. He claims it ruins the economy (because it falsely inflates prices of lower level equipment), it ruins fun for players, and it basically encourages exploits and cheating. He's not really right on that last one necessarily (twinking isn't technically cheating), but it does mean that higher level characters might be taking resources or drops that lower level characters would normally use. Own basically says Blizzard shouldn't condone twinking-- that they should grant an XP bonus at the end of every lower level batttleground event, just to push players up the ladder.
Drysc does answer in the thread, with a fairly tame statement that basically says Blizz doesn't condemn or endorse twinking, and that the new arena system will help a little bit by matching up similar players. But what do you think? Personally, I don't think twinking is a big deal-- even if you're not epic'd out in 10-19 WSG, you can still affect the battle if you play your role correctly. And it's a nice bonus for those players who are willing to put the time and money in to make their alts special in a certain level bracket. As skills get earned, battles look very different at 19 than they do at 59, and so playing to be the best at 19 just offers a different look at the PVP game, in my (usually) humble opinion. Agree? Or should Blizzard do away with ritual twinkers once and for all?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Grendalsh Aug 18th 2006 3:52AM
There's several aspects to twinking, as you noted. Using your lvl60 char to collect blues for your lvl 19 to buff them out is cheesy, but not broken. However, the whole epic enchants on lvl 19 blue equipment is broken on so many levels. Aside from the obvious ability to severely overpower a lvl 19 char in PVP with buffs to which they shouldn't have access, there's the issues of draining resources from higher lvl chars while undermining the market for lower level enchants. An Epic enchant takes epic reagents, but if the market for those is spread across the entire level range, then the folks that actually NEED those buffs (i.e. raiding 60's) will find their supplies lowered and the prices inflated. Meanwhile, because it's possible to put an Epic enchant on a lvl 19 blue, no powergamer will bother with Agility +3, or Damage +2, thus draining the primary market for low-mid level enchants, to the extent you can't PAY people to take them.
Meanwhile, almost every other permanent buff in the system has an equipment level minimum - armor patches being the most notable example. Enchants should be the same - Sorry, no you can't put Crusader on your Cruel Barb, it can't hold that much power.
This fix alone would elegantly resolve or ameliorate a number of issues - PVP twinking, 10-19 WSG sucking for everyone that ISN'T a twinker, enchant material availabilty and costs, and lack of demand for sub-250 enchants.
boneyard Aug 18th 2006 4:06AM
im fine if they try to do something about it. wow is already full of level reqs so putting them on enchantments or such would be fine. but this is something you can prolly never completely stop.
Dagrak Aug 18th 2006 5:55AM
On the one hand I despise twinks as it transforms Battle grounds, which should be just a bit of competative fun, into a tireseome effort where everyone is forced to group up on the twinks just to get rid of them. At the same time though there is nothing more satisfying then a total victory against a squad of twinks!
I think it should be common sense that High Level enchantments should be level restricted, just like potions etc...though I will admit most of my fortune has come from selling Blue Items I can't use for utterly ridiculous amounts of gold!
PodMonkeys Aug 18th 2006 8:01AM
I see no problem with giving items to lower level characters. Thats what friends are for. Enchants should have level requirements on items just like they do for buffs on characters. How this will work for items that do not have level reqs, I can hsee appening by having the enchant setting level reqs onto the item.
Diealone Aug 18th 2006 8:22AM
Twinking is not all of the game! first off if you suck at warsong then you just suck and if the hole them sucks then it does not matter if you are twinked or not cause its a TEAM GAME!!!!!!!!!!!if your team sucks you lose bottom line twinked or not the only thing twinking can get you is more kilz thats it plain and simple...(if you mad at twinkers then get a char to lv60 and do the same. all of the items havve lv req so you can buy them at ah or get them as drops all it takes is some effort) GO TWINKS GO!!!!!!!!!!
James Aug 18th 2006 8:40AM
I know there's a group of about 10 super-high level 60s from two of the top guilds on my server (including a couple from mine) that are full tier 2 (and up), who have level 19 and 29 alts that are, by far, the best twinked out chars in the game. I think enchants should be downgraded and level req, sure, but they can't possibly get rid of low level blues and what not. It keeps the game interesting for those that are already end-game. I'm in the works of a twinked out level 29 druid, and hopefully able to get in their WSG group. I have yet to see more than 2-3 of them die at a single time in one of their games.. I mean, if I spend 200g (and/or running timely instances) on a twinked out char, I better have some kind of feeling that makes the game more interesting. If someone who just joined the game has no idea how to play their class against a char like that, I don't want to see the experience player who down too easily.
Peter Aug 18th 2006 8:53AM
People who whine about twinking is just a bunch 'tards. Hey, the rules are the same for you as it is for them. If you want to be on equal footing, twink your guy! If you don't have the time or money (real or virtual) to twink, well, maybe you should have busted your hump in school and gotten yourself a better job that can afford you the time and money to twink, if that's your priority. If that's not your priority, quit whining about it. You can't expect the rules to be changed for your benefits just because you're not willing to put the same efforts in for someone who "twinks." End of story!
Just to piss the "I-don't-like-twinks" crowd off, I think I'll start up a few accounts now that I have my 60s just so I can twink some guys and own all in the BG. Just pray that I don't play on your server! Hmm, maybe I'll just xfer my 60's to different servers and twink -- that way I can spread the love! LOL
Tyler Aug 18th 2006 9:44AM
To play devil's advocate on this one, putting level requirements on enchants might affect enchanters' income. As it is, those epic enchants are the most profitable with the highest margins. Level limiting the enchants will give up-and-coming enchanters a market but it will come at the expense of those who have already made it to 300 and who will have to wait for their clients to reach lv 50 or 55 or whatever the limit is set for such enchants like Crusader.
Is that a good or bad thing? Is it even a thing?
DblDamage Aug 18th 2006 9:51AM
I couldn’t disagree more with you, Peter (post #7).
One of my first experiences in WSG was against a heavily twinked alliance group. The only reason they were there was to farm HK’s. The flag runner was a Paladin, and he would loiter below the Horde graveyard. He had no intention of capturing the flag. When he had at minimum 3 of us attacking him and got to 50% health, he would bubble up and head back to his teammates, who would decimate our group. Wash, rinse, repeat. The longer they kept up this behavior, the more Horde players left the battlegrounds. It took four of us using every stun we had in our arsenal to finally bring him down. This lasted for 2 hours.
I didn’t try another WSG for weeks after.
The mass populace does not want to play with you twinks anymore. They can’t even get experience in how to PVP, because you 2-shot them. This is the reason that the queues are so long for the battlegrounds. You are the reason that Blizzard was forced to implement cross-server battlegrounds.
Those of you reading this that are just starting out with new characters, don’t even bother with the current battlegrounds until you reach level 30-39. At that point things seem to even out a bit. Levels 10-29 is just an exercise in futility. And please don’t start with the “You just suck in BGs, Lrn2play” crap, because clearly gear > skill at these levels, or you wouldn’t have bothered twinking your character.
AcceptableRisk Aug 18th 2006 10:12AM
I don't think forced leveling is the answer. I know I hung around the 40's bracket for a fair bit longer than most. I just liked it there and I had garbage for equipment.
Grendalsh pretty much already summed up the best points on the matter. The only people that enchantment level requirements will harm is the people selling high end enchantments for outrageous sums. I think it's justified alone by the fact that it will help make enchanting a viable profession in the lower levels.
The twinks won't suffer too much from it. They'll still have all blues with whatever enchantments are available for those. Their chances of being defeated non-twinks in WSG simply goes from nearly nonexistent to statistically improbable. I know I won't shed a tear.
jpc Aug 18th 2006 10:22AM
You twinks are all wasting your time, and the people complaining about them are too. The amount of honor you get from a lvl 19 WSG is insignificant compared to the amount of honor you get from a lvl 60 wsg. If you hate twinks, just lvl up, there are no lvl 60 twinks. Let them waste their time making 4-5 kills to get the amount of honor you'd get with 1.
Does anyone know if rep is also scaled by lvl? If it is, then twinks are definitely wasting their time. If it's not, then I guess they're getting some WSG rep out of it. Too bad the wsg rep rewards are weak compared to AV.
Ghostle Aug 18th 2006 10:37AM
I dislike twinking, really these people don't have any skill (if they did, they would run around with just the normal gear, with no enchants and still do well).
Now, although I dislike them, I have many alts, and they all go through the BG's to get their insignia, and I can easily see how some of these people suck. I don't stack up any of my alts with a bunch of gear and enchants (maybe 1 or 2 pieces that I farmed on my 60) but no enchants (well my lock was an enchanter herself, so she self enchanted). I go in there and have a fun time killing these alliance twinks on any of my alts. Its more satisfaction beating the shit out of them.
Again, these people can't compete in the 60 BG, and they claim that its unfair for people in tier 2 gear to beat their poor 60. Well its the exact same thing when they twink, they are the equivalent of a tier 2 beating on a person pre MC.
biddle Aug 18th 2006 10:48AM
I think that you should get xp in the bgs, and
that twinking your char should be an interface
option that turns off all xp gain.
Once done, you can only fight other twinks in bg,
fun returns! Er, unless your fun was derived from
ganking the non-twinks of course .....
sollaires Aug 18th 2006 11:07AM
I just want to add a couple thoughts here.
1) At some level, I would imagine Blizzard does not mind twinking for the sole reason that players that may have reason to leave the game find a new reason to stay and spend their time, which conveniently ends up as $ for Blizz. My conspiratorial side uses this reason to explain the lack of level requirements on enchantments. My software developer side blames laziness.
2) For new players and/or your alt who cannot compete with those twinks in the BGs, this sucks. There is a side benefit, however, which is that you have some chance of getting one of the coveted lowbie world drops that, if you have the knowledge, can sell for big bank, giving you a monetary edge that did not exist pre-twinking.
3) The other counter balance is factions. Given the popularity of twinking, there is often a good chance that you will have twinks to fight the other sides' twinks. This might become better or worse with XRealm BGs in 1.12
Now, this isn't to say I condone twinking. I also feel like level limitations on enchantments would help, probably the same for arcanums. This would limit the gap between twink and non-twink.
omg Aug 18th 2006 11:37AM
jeesus this is out of hand with the crying.
whaaaaa this guy is 19 and in all blue...no fair he farmed all that gold and has 60s already.
then there is whaaaa this guy is 60 in tier 3 whaaa no fair he has a good raid guild and I dont.
What's next? Can't attack people while they are pulling a mob? whaaa its not fair I was busy fighting a mob...block pvp when I am pulling so I dont get cheap shoted?
Pathetic....SOftcore pvp this is pathetic what the MMO community of WoW has degraded down to.
Mat Aug 18th 2006 12:13PM
omg, the only thing pathetic is when people can't recognize that with this large of a community everyone is going to have a different way they'd like to play.
I would be surprised if adding enchant levels didn't fix the "problem".
Michael Aug 18th 2006 12:14PM
I am guessing that #14 is a twinker... what do you think???
I have to agree with the poster at #1, Put caps on what lvl of enchant a piece of equipment can take. BOOM it's fixed.
Perfect?? no! but it would go along way to fixing some of the economy, BG balance, and fun for the players that are trying to play the game the way it was intended.
HEY BLIZZARD this would also put a huge bite in the Real World market for in game gold. Twinks arent only done to low level alts, they are also done by those that havent played the game, but just buy gold to twink their primary. I am even starting to consider it, as bad as the imbalances are getting. and hey in-game gold is getting cheep and is very easy to buy!!
Kaylos Aug 18th 2006 12:22PM
Twinks are as secondary method for casual level 60s to have fun in PvP. Its very easy to get to 60 in this game and doesn't take much time. I'll admit, i once twinked a level 30 warrior on another server to play with my friend who had a 60 on that server, before they changed the BG levels. It was fun. The best part was how much slower pace the game was, even with high level enchants. It was just a lot more fun when for the most part, even when facing other twinks, you didn't die immediately. Actually required some strategy beyond focus fire for a guarunteed kill. The gameplay can be a lot more fun.
Any level 60 can afford to pimp out a level 19 or 29 twink with some farming. Considering the vast majority of characters are level 60, those new to the game or are just leveling really don't make a very large voice.
Lex Aug 18th 2006 12:32PM
I have a 19 paladin with 50% damage reduction and well over 1000 health. Improved blessing of freedom + swiftness pots (mats are easy to farm in Westfall) means I can cap any flag I want.
The enchantment system that allows this is BROKEN. This isn't crying, because I didn't get mad went I got slayed by twinks while leveling up, I got even. It's just a question of bad game mechanics: it's not that it makes the game unfair, it's that it makes the game STUPID.
Simple example: +100 health to chest yields a 1-3% bonus to hp for a level 60. But even a warrior all in blues at 19 can't have more than 8-900 health, and probably a lot less, so the bonus is more like 10-15%. Crusader: +100 strength when your strength is less than 100? Come on. And we should mention that there are way more (and more easily obtained) physical damage enchants than spell damage enchants, so basically casters are more or less out of the game as twinks. My pally, even with +30 healing, can't heal herself for more than 20% of her total health, so a big chunk of my abilities are useless.
I've got no problem with equipment twinking. High level chants on low level equipment is broken.
crsh Aug 18th 2006 1:05PM
I hate twinks, with a passion; I find them pathetic, nothing more than a childish way of a creating a I-Win button for a bracket that's already plagued with all sorts of imbalance issues that Blizz is apparently not interested in looking into.
You've seen them, lv19 rogues with thhe best blues available at that level, crazy and expensive enchants on everything (which gives them insane stamina for that level and insane attack power). To do what? To run around WSG, hit harder, and just generally be the proverbial annoying brats that they are.
If anything, Blizz should totally restrict enchants on low-level gear; there are level restrictions for using potions, armor kits, etc, so why not enchants?
On the other hand, as a level 60 in need of cash to keep raiding every night, I farm places like Shadowfang Keep (lv18-20 gear, usually) for BoE drops, they sell for a lot of money since those twink morons go all out for the best weapons. There's definitely an in-game market that pays off big time (lv19 gear sells for tons more than lv30-50 gear, for instance, that's how bad it is on my server).
However, if a lv60 wants to go all out and twink a lv19 to hell by providing it with the best weapons, gears, and enchants, so frickin' be it.