Urthona Sep 6th 2006 1:47PM

Are multiple pets even a viable coding option? It might crowd the interface, but it'd be sweet to unleash my defensive bear and offensive owl simultaneously.

Duwanis Sep 6th 2006 2:03PM

There has, actually, been something said for hunters - and even better
than unsubstantiated (and likely false... as someone noted earlier, the champion stuff was made up) rumors, it was said by a
CM.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16611983&pageNo=2&sid=1#27

They've
got a big focus on hunter pets, it seems.

James Sep 6th 2006 2:09PM

Reminds me of the Hunter Leaf quests, no pets allowed, interesting that the sole purpose of the hunter was to be the supporting DPS with their pet, and is now utterly worthless. Only time I use my pet is to pull Anu's and the Mindflaying packs between Huhu and C'thun.

Adam Sep 6th 2006 2:14PM

Hunters were the last class to get talents in the original WoW beta...hunters didn't even get finished until patch 1.7, and they're still busted anyway. It's also worth noting at one point hunters were goign to have Focus instead of mana (which makes more sense) but Blizzard essentially gave up and just made us another mana class.

It doesn't surprise me we're, once again, the last class to get any treatment. I fully expect the new talents to suck anyway. The new aimed shot is +870 dmg (over the oly +600)....IMO it's not enough unless they make aimed shot a core ability and not a talent. People who complain about hunters seem to forget this. Hunters are absolutely forced to dump 11 points into one of our trees to get Aimed shot....

The new hunter talents have to be revolutionary, and truly exceptional to get any hunter to spec away from 0/31/30. With talents out there such as "Cheat Death" all I can say is they better be groundbreaking.

mikeschramm Sep 6th 2006 2:48PM

This is 100% pure speculation, but what the heck, I was right about Shaman pets, wasn't I?

My guess is that Blizzard will have Hunter abilities that are specific to the pet. That is, instead of giving pets new abilities (which they probably will anyway), they'll give hunters abilities whose numbers or effects change based on the type of pet they have. Simple example: a sting that is nature damage if you have a scorpion, or arcane damage if you have an owl. Or an attack based on your dps rating, or something like that-- basically have the hunter reflect the pet's abilities.

Other guesses: give the hunter an ability to summon a superpowered version of their pet for a few moments. Or caster pets the hunter can tame, to be used like imps in instances.

Spencer Callaghan Sep 6th 2006 3:12PM

I would like to see some advanced functionality in pets, things like the ability to guard an area or player.

Imagine being able to set your pet to guard a nearby healer or protect a WSG flag.

Or what about giving pets abilities based on thier type, spiders get a snare web, bears get a stun, cats get a bleed ability, etc.
Currently warlock pets have far more usefulness in raids, it is about time hunters were not only allowed, but encouraged to use pets in raids.

Duwanis Sep 6th 2006 3:52PM

That depends on how you define "pets," Mike :-P

No, Blizz probably won't do that. Or rather, let me say that it would be ignorant of them to do so - almost all of the flak they're catching from Hunters now regarding pets is that the pet advancement system isn't as nice as it should be, so the burden of making pets better gets schlepped off to the Hunter (gear, talents, etc.). If they made Hunters train in abilities that were only used for pets, it a) wouldn't serve any useful purpose, and b) it wouldn't earn them any favors in the community. It's a lose/lose.

Also, they have the ability to summon a super-powered version of their pet; all it takes is 31 points in the BM tree :-P

mikeschramm Sep 6th 2006 4:06PM

Duwanis, I'm not sure I described my speculation exactly right. I'll try one more time.

I'm thinking of giving the Hunter (the character, not the pet) a trainable ability that changes based on what pet the hunter currently has with them. That is, if they've pulled their owl out of the stable to come on the raid with them, the Hunter's ability will do something different than if they'd brought their bear with them (they wouldn't even need to have the pet out at the time). Every Hunter would have this ability, but the ability itself would change based on whatever pet they had "equipped." That's my guess anyway.

As to the super-powered version, yes, I know about Bestial Wrath. I mean a super powered version that you summon at will and that disappears after a certain amount of time. That would let Hunters use their pets on raids without having to worry about them throughout the instance. I guess we'll see if I'm right about these when Blizz finally releases the info.

Spencer, I agree that pets should have more functionality-- would be awesome. But pets already do have their own abilities-- bats can silence, wolves have a piercing howl. Blizzard has already promised we'll see more of these (pets and abilities) in the expansion. :)

Duwanis Sep 6th 2006 4:14PM

Ah, ok, I misread. Yeah, some kind of empathy skills would be good; Spirit Bond is kind of weak for being the only passive hunter/pet interaction.

I'm also kind of in the (proven, as opposed to theoretical) school of thought that pets are extremely useful in raids when managed properly. You get kicked out of a raid for pulling it out, sure, but that's due in large part to people who didn't realize that their pet would follow them when they jumped, or that aggressive stance was a bad instance stance, or that growl would steal aggro from the MT... etc. Blizz has kind of hinted at that train of thought, too, so I'd put money on them revamping the pet training system to be a little more dynamic.

Meugly Sep 6th 2006 5:57PM

How about they let pets equip armor, or melee weapons?

necröpunk Sep 6th 2006 6:35PM

Hunter pet's do not need to be buffed at all, you have a tree that is based on making your pets better same with warlocks.. i have played both classes to 60 btw... aimed shot is definitly fine where it is.. it is essentially a hunter version of pyroblast.. only one warlock pet has any usefulness in a raid and that is the imp.. someone stated that lock pets are far more useful... they are that way for a reason you ever fight a warlock without a pet? they are a free kill, we loose a significant portion of our DPS and lots of our utility (save fear of course) fight a hunter without his pet and u dont even notice... its just an extra DoT effect yet you are still getting hit for 1k damage every 1.5 seconds from the vast assortment of shots a hunter has at his disposal. In conclusion Hunters are not based around their pets.. they are based around the ability to do a lot of damage from far away while maintaining mobility, a pet is just an added bonus.. stop complaining hunters have it better than any other class atm.. come BC hopefully things will even out accross the bored.

Thelna - ER Sep 6th 2006 6:51PM

I have this much to say. MOST hunters suck at WOW. they have no idea how the game is played and they don't care. on a server full of people, i have come across 2 hunters in my year and half of playing, that actualy know how to play. that means there are probably ten people on a server with near max capacity, alliance side, that can play a hunter. wtf do we need more hunters for with their darn pets running around. the ones that take the time to learn their class, cool. but i see no incentive to giving hunters more power, just to suck big time, create wipes and take loot that does them, a party, a raid and the game no good. Hunters dont even care to learn how to play.

sorry for ranting.

Grendalsh Sep 7th 2006 12:08AM

So if other classes get pets.. Maybe Hunter's Pets will get pets? Hunter's pets would so be an alpha compared to wild critters, so it'd make sense if your pet got a 'pack' of his own kind as an uber talent. Perhaps as a timed buff, with one critter per talent point. The extra's would cue off your main pet, so would be indirectly controlled through your main.
It's too bad there's no tameable bulls.. I'd sooo pop this in Stormwind - Running of the Tuaren!

aaron Sep 7th 2006 9:13AM

To poster 6. There were "leaked" patch notes for 1.7 providing a huge list of pet moves that would be put in the game. So far 10 out of 40 or so moves in that list have been implemented. Most of the moves that the beasts do in the wild were on the list, webs stuns included.

Passive bonuses like the demonolgy talents seem plausable. Having your pets stats based upon your own stats would be nice but would enrage pvpers. Having heals on you do a % heal to your pet would be snazzy.

And being that your on the somewhat off topic of pets being useless. They are not, and can be used effectively in all instances for different purposes. Even a minor purpose is better than nothing.

CiM Sep 8th 2006 6:28AM

I'm sorry you raid with a group that doesn't let you use your pet. But the fact is, hunters can very usefully use their pets in most raid encounters, at the very least providing a 20-30% (yes, really.) increase in their DPS. No, it's not easy. But yes, it is worthwhile. Disallowing hunters from using their pets is symptomatic of the general raid group "attitude" that encourages the minmaxing and raid dictatorship phenomena that so blight WoW's end game community.

The only problem with hunters' pets in raids is that pets scale very little with gear, and it takes specific items (eg, Beastmaster Gloves) or set bonuses (eg Dragonstalker's 5/8) to scale them at all. So as a hunter gears up, his/her pet slowly represents a smaller and smaller proportion of his/her utility.

Nevertheless, a hunter's pet is a useful and (in sensible circles!) valued raiding companion whether dressed in greens or in full tier 3!

Scott Sep 7th 2006 7:04PM

I guess I just have two points to make...

#11
To say Aimedshot is fine where it is ( I take it you are implying that it should not be baseline?) is rediculous. Take for instance end game instances where the option of multishot is not allowed (twin emps is a perfect example). That leaves the hunter with aimedshots and autoshots, with the occasional rapid fire, sounds pretty limited to me. Aimedshot is a skill ALL hunters need to be successful and effective...forcing us to put 11 skill points into a tree to gain a "required" skill is absurd.

#15
I agree AND disagree with your statement about pet usefulness in raiding. Yes in many 5 man raids pets can be an effective off-tank, AND in some endgame instances pets can provide additional DPS output. But the flexibility is just not there for pets to be a fulltime raider like the rest of us. Fears that can pull aggro, aoe effects, spreading plagues, ect. are risks many raids are not willing to take (for obvious reasons). In many cases a pets lifespan in a raid is so short that many hunters (myself included) don't even bother sending in our little buddy to take a cleave to the face, as it gets his 2 hits off before dying miserably. For boss fights that require no pet controlling (fankriss, instructor raz, and a few others) yes take advantage...set it and forget it. But for fights where pets require more attention (chrommagus, firemaw, sartura, anub'rekhan to name a few) with pulling the put out, putting it back in...the usefulness greatly decreases, as the chance for error greatly increases.

And as far as gear goes, again many hunters are not willing to sacrifice their own ranged attack power and dps to boost their pets potential. There is gear out there that can effectively raise your pets damage, but at what cost? I for one wouldn't sub any of my gear out to grant my pet 3% more damage, or 3% critical chance. And as far as putting skill points in to maximize my pets damage is out of the question as well. Bliz has set up that option (quite nicely) to boost pet potential, but at a sacrifice of the hunters top tiered skills.

I'm not concerned with the lack of information they have given us on the hunter talents, because if the rumors are true and they are doing some major pet changes...let them take their time so they get it right. I agree that I want my pet in the raids, playing a major role for me in pvp, and an even stronger farming partner...but as the current pet structure is, he only fulfills one of those roles.

Chronos Sep 8th 2006 2:26AM

I wouldnt worry much about Hunters losing any thing because other classes are getting a talent pet. Like the Mage pet is only if you work all the way down the Ice tree which alot of mages dont do. The Druid's Treant (if its even real) is all the way down balance, which is alittle more common I guess (I've never thrown together a druid before). Also they all seem to be on timers which makes for burst tanking/dps at best, or as I would like to think they're going to do if in the case of the treant if its real no dps at all (meaning he would be more of a healing helper then any thing else). Its not going to hurt hunter pets at all its just going to make soloing easier for the classes that get them, probably to suffer the same fate as a Hunter pet in the end game aspect.

Thing is that Blizz needs to make it worth having any points in BM and a pet at end game at all. I think they've got the point that alot of hunters are told not to use their pets in raids and instances, I imagen that they didnt totally have that in mind.. Maybe thats one reason they lowered the raid cap, bad reason but who knows. I think they will pull some sort of trick out of their hat for the hunter pets.

I like the idea of caster type pets, since Outland will have so many different and unseen flora and fauna we might actually see some of these and it will open up a whole new door for hunters other then having a aggro holding pet, even in raiding where hunters can sit back and let the pet sit next to them and let it the extra dps fly from afar. it might even be useful for heavy survival specced players to have that kind of dps rather then one that can tank for them. Freeze trap + caster pet could equal some nice choices

As for the skill some one said earlier that they think hunters should get that will react different depending on their pet, its a cool idea but might be hard for Blizzard to not only impliment but to balance. Maybe if they could make it an aura that comes from the pet that only a hunter can get be effected by,almost like the one the disgusting oozeling pet effects you with but with a positive effect. It could be like a link between the beast and its master, maybe one that can go up or down based on how happy the pet is, almost like the EPL buff for the towers work. That would probably work I think (damn I think I like that, lol)... but I think they'd rather make it so you choose to specailize in a certain type of pet, kinda like what a warlock has to choose more or less if they go into demonology.

Draega-Cenarius Sep 11th 2006 11:14AM

Pet functionality has allways (and I like it this way) based on the hunter. #17 is exactly right. Theres times throughout the game where you just don't use you pet. It's a fact of the game. At the rate things are going , I think 31/30 is going to be the only spec worthwhile. Its alot of damage a hunter can throw out there, and you get to add 10 more levels on it AND trueshot upgrades. Hunter crits will spike higher than mages can right now. We still have feign death, which everyone hates on us for, and we still will be able to take on stuff 4 levels higher than us (minmax gear roxors). Hunters will still be the best class, but our DPS is going to be extravagent. We'll see what they do.

Dogburt Sep 21st 2006 7:19PM

Im not sure if anyone stated this, but what if hunters were given a talent for the pet, like stampede from the beast master in warcraft 3 that would last for a few seconds that sends copys or clones of your pet charging at the enemys dealing damage, sort of like an aoe or somthing. Plus it would look pretty funny...

buffshamans Sep 13th 2006 2:44AM

some of you argue pets are usefull
some of you say no
-----------------------------------
what if your both right?
-----------------------------------
-less than lvl 60 pet usefull
-lvl 60 in blues-mc epics pet usefull
-bwl start seeing pet 1-2hit by most mobs
-aq 40 gear gives you so much damage your pet can no longer keep agro with out excessive growl time while farming
-naxx gear when you look at your sw stats damage meter it says that your pet is doing 2% of your total damage... and you start only using a pet for furious howl
its one hit by everything and has less armor and dodge than you and cant keep agro ever.

so... what is your point buff?
my point is our problem is scalablity.

our magic damage is not scaleable its dependant on gear but very little of our gear alows us to keep good stats and improve it, and when we get naxx gear we start to notice its not worth the mana to cast half the things on our bar over aim/multi unless your decked out in 600+dmg. (which i dont recomend)

traps dont really scale dmg wise either.
and im not sure why we have scorpid sting everything is immune to it. it has little to no value in pvp except to shoot someone on your healer if your busy killing someone else-- i dont know

currently the best wep in the game because of wow's poor design is the xbow of smiting- its better than anything seen in naxx including the 56 dps xbow - im not gonna explain why to you cuz you'll just argue cuz you dont probly want a math lesson but its retarded and i agree with you that shouldn't be the case - but its yet another example of how poorly hunters scale with with gear