The DPS-adin is at it again
by Mike Schramm 
Sep 29th 2006 at 12:51AM
Boy if Pallys who want to be DPS need a hero, they need look no further than Esotarious, the DPS-adin whose first video (of him critting over 2000 in Naxx) I showed here about a week ago. And now Eso's at it again. Lots of people had concerns the first time around (that he was critting holy dmg on undead only, that he was only showing his best crits, and that even though he said he was challenging rogues, he didn't show it). Now, he's back to answer them, and in a new video fighting Patchwerk, he breaks 1800 crits again, and again, and again, and again.
Say what you will about the whole DPS-adin theory, this guy's got some great production values. I'll even give you a quote for your next movie, Eso: "Esotarious has done more than anyone else to show us what a Paladin is really capable of." -Mike Schramm, wow.com. Can't wait to see it.
But, I've got two more concerns for you supposedly DPS paladins to answer, too. Find them after the jump.
Yes you can hit, and yes you can do damage when you're buffed up, but why should you? If I'm running a raid, I've got three or four rogues that can use those potions and flasks, and not a single one of them can heal. Why should I let you DPS when I'd rather have the buffs?
That said, why am I watching a Paladin do DPS in PVE? If there's any place paladins could use reliable (well, as it gets) DPS, it's in PVP. Show me a PVP video of you critting over 1500 on players with any regularity and then we'll really be talking about an endgame viability for the Paladin that doesn't start with "Heal" and end in "bot."
Meanwhile, love the movies. Keep 'em coming.
Say what you will about the whole DPS-adin theory, this guy's got some great production values. I'll even give you a quote for your next movie, Eso: "Esotarious has done more than anyone else to show us what a Paladin is really capable of." -Mike Schramm, wow.com. Can't wait to see it.
But, I've got two more concerns for you supposedly DPS paladins to answer, too. Find them after the jump.
Yes you can hit, and yes you can do damage when you're buffed up, but why should you? If I'm running a raid, I've got three or four rogues that can use those potions and flasks, and not a single one of them can heal. Why should I let you DPS when I'd rather have the buffs?
That said, why am I watching a Paladin do DPS in PVE? If there's any place paladins could use reliable (well, as it gets) DPS, it's in PVP. Show me a PVP video of you critting over 1500 on players with any regularity and then we'll really be talking about an endgame viability for the Paladin that doesn't start with "Heal" and end in "bot."
Meanwhile, love the movies. Keep 'em coming.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff, Blizzard, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
david nelson Sep 29th 2006 1:10AM
hah hah hah. Go Mike.
BTW, I have a hornets nest in a tree in my back yard. When you are done here, can you come over and whack it with a bat? :)
Brian Sep 29th 2006 1:37AM
awsome application, but i wonder whats gonna happen after the expansion :|
swiftlydead Sep 29th 2006 2:10AM
... so why does paladinsucks.com exist?
Illdan Sep 29th 2006 5:20AM
The point he makes and you kind of fail to see is, that if he is higher up on the dmg-list than other meelees he should rather have their spot and you could take in yet another paladin. Meelee spots should be given to the best dpsing players in the raid. Just because he's a pally, that shouldn't block him from doing so.
Rich Sep 29th 2006 8:13AM
HMMM a healing class was doing some great dps... but they got wiped... im pretty sure I was rather loose that dps and stay alive...
Averdreynn Sep 29th 2006 1:24PM
Because its their $15 a month and they can play the way they please.
I am a big fan of eso's playstyle. If he can still cleanse/spot heal while meleeing and have the mana for it, then more power to him.
Working on some gear to be able to do that now....=P
foip Sep 29th 2006 10:28AM
"Show me a PVP video of you critting over 1500 on players with any regularity and then we'll really be talking about an endgame viability for the Paladin"
pvp is endgame now? Uh? *goes to search all those stealthed rogues from another faction hiding inside of 40man raid instances*
Coanunn Sep 29th 2006 9:06AM
I've seen his videos and it is great that he can do what he does, but there is a catch here we can't ignore.
Consider the gear he is using? I drop 1800 crits now in half tier 1 and half blues as a combat daggers rogue. I drop them just about once ever 3-9 seconds based on straight energy regen, faster if I use adrenaline rush and faster still if I use consumables. He is using NAXX level gear, consumables and still is only hitting for 1800 crits. Yes he could easily replace me in my BWL raid sunday and while he would burn through consumables to do it the raid wouldn't notice much if any difference in DPS. Where the rub is put him up against a tier 3 geared rogue with Naxx weapons and I can pretty much guarantee they bury him. Toss in consumables for the rogue and this guy looks like the guy in the back tossing a starshard instead of healing.
I appreciate people trying to think outside the box and playing the game in a way that is fun for them but when you start trying to stop someone else from coming along because you can do something better than anyone else of your class but can't do it as well as the person you are replacing that is just wrong.
Leonidus Sep 29th 2006 9:23AM
So why do you have to put down someone thinking "outside" the box? Props to him and go Argent Dawn.
bliSSter Sep 29th 2006 10:02AM
I appreciate seeing these videos as much as the next guy. I have a paladin and enjoy that most of their power exists as the single most mana-efficient class in the game. I know this because I've raided with a druid and can see the difference first-hand.
With that said, the REAL entertainment here is reading user comments and taking private pleasures knowing that existing preconceived notions about raiding and maximized class roles are on the verge of extinction. Not because some healing class can melee pretty well against certain mobs in the existing end-game...but because Burning Crusade is right around the corner with a lowered raid cap and events specifically tuned for hybrid classes.
GG and QQ more indeed.
Gunn Sep 29th 2006 10:26AM
I'm a tankadin.
I tried the the critadin before and may do so again.
alot of paladins get type classed into healdins because 90% of them don't know what they're doing and healing is very easy for a pally to do. Spam flash of light, with the occasionaly holy light.
Making a critadin or a tankadin and being successful is difficult because you have to spread points out through the trees. It's arguably one of the hardest classes to perfect in talent pts because of this. Lets face it Blizzard doesn't make it cheap to try new builds.
I relegated myself to healadin for quite awhile. at least after the crusader nerf 1.4years ago. During this time on raids I would slowly gain tanking gear and crit gear. My tank gear is about as good as you can get for a paladin not doing MC or higher, minus a great shield. My healing gear is top notch, my crit gear is next.
I still haven't figured out the best tanking build but have successfully tanked every boss, without losing aggro or being conflaged, pre20 man. Although I have tanked some 20 man bosses, just not the Hakkar or Oss.
I guess what I'm saying is Paladins only suck because people don't take the time to learn the class and honestly after playing every class except priest. It is the hardest to get 100% down. (Again healadin is extremely easy).
I would say if you have a pally in your group and he's out DPSing a Melee class then that melee person should be replaced for a healer before the paladin.
Gunn
Coanunn Sep 29th 2006 10:59AM
I'm not knocking the guy or the class, I'm just saying in equal gear a motivated melee dps (which in the end really means rogue as they are a very specialized class) should out dps him by a miles! If he out dps's an equal geared melee dps class then yes the other guy should be replaced first for not pulling his own weight, but frankly a critadin doesn't stand a chance of cracking the top 10-15 in one of our raids. Mages fight for the spots below about 8th and the rogues own 1-x based on the number of rogues we bring. Last week we dropped Ragnaros before sons and went 1-7 rogues, 8 mage leader, 9-10 SM Ruin Warlocks in all +damage gear. Like I said, I am sure he can beat me in damage as I'm wearing blues, but let me get into the same level of gear he is using and somehow I doubt it's a competition.
Yes blizzard has said that BC will change that, what worries me is if you lower the player cap that doesn't make room for people playing some "out of the box" version of their class but makes for people having to be more specialized.
Spanky Sep 29th 2006 11:21AM
It basically boils down to this. If you want dps, take a rogue, as they HAVE aggro management abilities. The 1st time this guy pulled agro into the raid and caused a wipe he would be kicked out of the raid. (dont know why i am even bothering to say that as alliance = ez-mode end game)
Basically if they want to dps, REROLL. I know that guy would never get into my guild as a dpsadin.
Kaylos Sep 29th 2006 11:42AM
This is definitely a better video than the last one. And much more realistic. It shows Paladin DPS is better than hunters lol.
It is definitely impressive for a paladin, but it does show the limitations also. You can see that his guild lacks on DPS classes. Where are the warlocks that should be up there in DPS. Where are the fury warriors that should be up there with the rogues? I find it hard to believe that guild that lets Paladins DPS doesn't have any properly geared fury warriors. With a proper class balance, he would have found himself lower than 9th, probably 13th or 14th.
Still though, I'll give him his props. It is impressive. Sadly though, its still not optimal for a raid to have a DPS Paladin and if any of you Paladins see this think you will get into a guild that will let you DPS, don't get your hopes up. This video only proves to me that Paladins should be healing in raids and I am sure it won't change the minds of many raid leaders either.
Garland Sep 29th 2006 11:55AM
So what if he can barely keep up with the slower mages... look at the dps meter. There's a handful of hunters who can't keep up. There's a dps warrior who can't keep up. There's a couple warlocks who can't keep up.
If I was raid leader and needed extra healing I'd let that Paladin do what he wants and kick one of those other classes for a Priest instead. Because unfortunately for them, that "Retnub" is owning their sustained dps good.
It's the way that fight works. In a different fight things may be different, but without data for those you can't predict how they'll go.
bliSSter Sep 29th 2006 2:35PM
Here's the rub... Player and skill > gear and/or class. We all have no clue what Eso's normal raid/guild composition is like. Maybe they have an abundance of awesome healers and other dps players had crap attitudes so they /gkicked them. Maybe he busts his @$$ healing b/c he has been raiding enough that he has full judgement and is also picking up his share of t3 gear along the way pulling more than his fair share when his role as healer pops up. Maybe he's just that good. /shrug
And what are the odds that his guild's dps (mages/rogues/locks/hunters), don't have plenty of gear out of AQ40/Naxx? Pretty freaking slim. Last time I checked, there wasn't a script to dictate that paladin-specific DPS drops are given up by bosses in those zones and I seriously doubt they've been nexus shard farming with all the other class drops. Who here knows what his guild circumstances are.
What I do know is that I'd take a hybrid busting their ass for DPS/tanking over some rogue half-assing their way through the zone soaking up DKP and drops while downloading pr0n and watching ESPN2 while we're raiding. That's weaksauce served cold over nub pasta and I don't have time for slack-asses when I'm giving my raid undivided attention...which is probably what Eso is guilty of as well. Putting forth an honest effort.
As for BC, to believe that 25-man zones are going to have any reflection on current-day raiding is simply naivety running amuck. Blizzard has already stated they will be focusing on hybrid encounters and last time I checked, rogues had the least amount of survivability in the tanking arena and bandages don't count as healing. I have a 60 paladin, druid, lock and rogue; I'm not suggesting that rogues won't have a place in raids. Far from it, However, the ability to trade off roles midstream is going to change raid specialization considerably. As it stands today - specialization among 40 players is much more efficient...if for no other reason than the fact that the events are scripted around 40 players. Try running 5-man zones with a hybrid and you'll see a markedly different game.
In the end, the only reason I have ever seen players get retarded when they see a healing class playing their DPS/tanking spec is because they feel their sacred turf has been encroached upon. No on can judge a class without knowing the circumstances behind a guild and/or the player behind the toon.
Gunn Sep 29th 2006 3:51PM
I agree with everything you said blisster,
except if you raided with Godspeed you would see our guild master tank plenty of times. He's a rogue. For realz
Maybell Nov 14th 2006 3:55PM
whoever said hes got naxx gear...he doesnt. T3 for pallies is pure healing. zero attack power. he has nothing from naxx. his gear is made up if everything from ZG to AQ40 (most of what we see is thanks to AQ40. his wep and T2.5). if hes got access to full T2.5 and his guild is doing naxx, ill bet most of the other guys have equal gear. maybe those are the ones that are actually ahead of him on there.
kerni Nov 30th 2006 12:47PM
I say, more power to him. It's unfortunate that 99% of the WoW population has to be so narrow minded. Pigeon holing players of ANY class into one specific role is what makes this game boring to some, it's why people re-roll.
People just need to be less ignorant and more open minded about things like Paladin DPS.