Token based loot...good or bad?
by David Nelson 
Oct 6th 2006 at 10:45AM
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The guys over at WoW Vault got this quote, I assume from someone at Blizzard, although it is not attributed to anyone in general. It basically states that Blizzard is going to try to focus more on reputation, tokens and turn-ins for their upcoming BC loot system.I have seen this alluded to before, and I will admit I am looking forward to seeing what they have planned. What I am hoping for is that it will be easier to snag the loot you want, rather than farming a boss forever and never seeing it drop. As I have detailed before, my Devout robe NEVER dropped in 50+ UBRS runs. If I knew I just had to collect 5 red tokens of power and 8 blue stars of mana to claim my robe, it would give me a goal beyond "oh, I hope he drops my robe, oh, damn, he didn't....LFG UBRS Have Key". Maybe this system will solve some of that.
Also, it could, if implemented properly, give the dungeons more staying power. If you get access to some truly awesome gear at exalted, and you only get exalted via clearing a dungeon on hard mode a bunch of times, it will give rep farmers something to do. Granted, farming rep is farming rep, but farming as a team in a dungeon seems a little more fun than sitting in Silithus by yourself searching for Twilight Texts.
What do you guys think? Am I only seeing the bright side here? Would you like a ZG/AQ20 style loot system in place for more dungeons? Or are you more partial to being a slave of the loot table?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Wae Oct 6th 2006 11:02AM
So would token loot be just for dungeon drops, like epcis, or for quests as well? Because for quest you already have to "collect things" to get loot and rewards. I haven't heard of this before but if it's to get tier gear then I think it's a good idea so you don't have to rely sololy on drop schedules...If you could do it outside of raids and instances it would be good as well. Not everyone is a social players so it would be a chance for them to get way better gear.
LT Oct 6th 2006 11:29AM
Yes you dont have to wait for your item to drop but, you have to grind the rep needed PLUS you compete with everyone in the raid/group for the tokens and the epic/special piece related to that item. Not to mention BAG SPACE. my main char has all bank slots all with 16 slot bags cept for a 24 slot herb bag, and 4 18 slot bags that i carry. and i'm usually low on space. Of course i have bank chars but that will mean another slot for a bank char i'll have to use up.
Mike Schramm Oct 6th 2006 11:35AM
Just for context-- that quote comes from this forum thread...
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=31213841&pageNo=1&sid=1#0
Which I linked to from this post a few days ago...
http://www.wowinsider.com/2006/10/05/more-bc-hints-druids-priests-pets/
Continue on with the discussion :)
Chillis Oct 6th 2006 11:57AM
Sounds like a good idea but I don't think that will be implemented anytime soon. It would be nice to be able to recieve the rep. to purchase tier gear with without having to be a hardcore raider but how many times will you have to raid an instance to earn up enough tokens to get what you want? Will you have to save up for each individual armor pieces you need? This could mean running the same instance more than the normal systems way. Will the amount of tokens dropped be random or fix?
not a sermon, just a thought
Corbindallas Oct 6th 2006 12:10PM
This sounds like an interesting solution to DKP for casual players. Let's say that for every boss drop, every member of the raid gets a "loot-widget". For each end boss downed, all members of the raid get a "elite-loot-widget". With 40 loot-widget, 5 elite-loot-widgets, and revered rep, you can buy one tier-4 set piece.
This type of system would further open the door for casual raiding. With smaller raid groups, and guaranteed loot widgets, it would entice folks to form PUGs, or to join a guild raid that is a couple of folks short.
That type of system would almost certainly have detractors as well. Rather than gradually getting better gear for an instance, there would be large steps where all regular members would get a better piece at once, followed by a longish period of no improvement. That could very well burn-out a group, especially if earning the tokens takes several runs to the next gear piece.
I don't imagine the final outcome will be that cut and dried. It will likely be some kind of compromise where raids groups can gradually get geared up, but also purchase gear using a token system. I'm interested to see how it plays out.
Druid dude Oct 6th 2006 12:10PM
The token system looks great on paper, and many people really like the Naxx loot system. It does reduce the chancee of getting a specific useless item over and over.
However, what I see happening in many Naxx guilds is that classes that are not considered 'key' to the raid's success don't get squat for new gear until all the 'important' classes have theirs. So if you are a tank, you are in luck! You will probably have 4 pieces of Dreadnaught before some people that raid just as often as you even have one piece of tier 3.
And pity the players that aren't class leaders or top players of a class that the guild has deemed less important. I am in a Naxx guild. Druid class leader has one, count 'em one single piece of T3. Tanks and a couple other classes are getting the stuff piled on them daily. I think like one other Druid has a piece of T3.
So overall, the token system in effect takes the randomness out of itme drops and puts choices in the hands of guild leaders and raid leaders that may or may not know what they are doing. I hate to say it, but I liked the randomness better!
Maggot Oct 6th 2006 12:45PM
A combo of the 2 would be nice.
There's still a chance that sweet squishy robe you lust after might drop, but, if not, you get some tokens to go towards a turn in for it.
J Oct 6th 2006 2:02PM
I really just want to see better itemization for those feral/moonkin druids, fury warriors, shadow priets, and shammies--and I think a token system is the way to do it... Gotta convince Blizzard that having tons of armor options is better for end-game variety than anything...
--Feral and staying Feral.
deadhero Oct 6th 2006 2:07PM
Personally, I HATE grinding for rep. It's mindless busy work that is boring. I am one of those people who go on raids very rarely because I can't devote the time to raid. But when I can make it, I want loot not tokens. Yes I understand that waiting for an item to drop can be frustrating. But it seems to me like it would take longer to get your classes item, collect tokens, and spend the rest of your time grinding rep. Here are a couple of easy solutions Blizzard... Increase drop rate on items that hardly ever drop OR add more loot to a Boss' drop.
Point being, I want to play and enjoy the game, not do mindless grinding for rep. I don't want to spend my time doing something that makes me feel like I could be doing something better with my life. : p
Clementure Oct 6th 2006 2:10PM
My experience trying to get Warlock Dreadmist stuff out of Scholo/Strat has been highly frustrating. It never drops, not after dozens of runs. Yet crap for a Paladin or a Hunter drops like crazy.
To contrast that, last night I got a Primal Hakkari Idol thingie out of Zub Gurrub. Once I have the rep, I can use that to get an enchant that will nearly turn a head or leg item into an epic.
I’m all for the token system. It perhaps would be best if the random drops of MC were kept, so that players can choose which they’d rather do. But the tokens are a great way to make the rewards more appropriate to the players present in the instance/raid.
An even better plan would be to have things drop for the classes in the party. But I suppose we’d all get geared up too quickly if that happened. And then, there’d be one less time sink. Can’t have that!
Chillis Oct 6th 2006 2:13PM
PUG groups would be more popular because if you don't think the PUG your in can finish the instance, but do believe you can down a few of the bosses, you might stick it out to get a couple of the "loot-widgets" towards your rep. So the run would still be beneficial and you wouldn't be walking away with nothing.
cappyoak Oct 6th 2006 4:10PM
Really, it doesn't matter, which system you use, they both require a time synch. Again I feel like the lone voice of the casual gamer at times, but there is still an imbalance between hardcore and casual gamers, that needs to be addresses, and until it is addressed I will continue to bring it to light with out being a complainer.
I'd also love to see more of the 45 min DK types of quests. i'd also like to see some kind of time warp to instances, along the lines of BG. It would be so much easier to form PUGs if you could register at the meeting stones and wwhen the group is full everyone in the group gets a BG tyoe notice that the group has been filed, and the instance is ready. How many hours have I sat in an instance waiting for the entire group to get there, while others are farming and waiting for a summons?
dave Oct 6th 2006 3:16PM
Token based = good
Rep based = really bad
To explain, currently it is possible to grab a ton of loot on a single run through an instance. This can be a great way to get 'brought up to speed' with the rest of your guild. In a rep-based system, you mostly likely will not be able to get a single thing on your first, second, possibly third run, since you don't have rep. And if your guild progresses past the instance before you gain enough rep, you are out of luck.
In short, what may have been a few runs is multiplied by 10 when it is made rep based.
Mike Schramm Oct 6th 2006 3:27PM
Yes, dave, that's exactly my problem with rep-based Token loot. Already, on just a few runs through ZG, I've got two of my three tokens ready to go. But it's going to take me about 20 more runs through the entire instance-- especially since my guild only running every other week and is currently getting stuck on bloodlord and the tiger boss, I'm looking at a few months before I get to see those items in my inventory. By then, considering how fast we're moving through 40 man raids, I probably won't even need them, because I'll be decked out in higher tiered stuff.
Token loot is great, for the reasons that Tseric laid out. But making it rep-based (especially when the only way to get rep is to run an instance that requires 20 people to be on for a few hours at a time) makes the stuff almost useless compared to the time investment it requires. The result is that, on a time basis, you can get much better geared running 5 mans all the time rather than worrying about getting a ZG rep run together.
Same deal for AQ, but fortunately there are rep grind things you can do for CH rep on your own. Just wish there was stuff like that for ZG.
ro Oct 6th 2006 6:52PM
@cappyoak, well spoken. At the moment, WoW is not a game for casual gamers. It rewards hardcore grinding and farming. Even if one gets nice sets from raid instances, what are they good for? To master the next raid instance. Oh, you wanted to use the stuff during your regular outworld play? Too bad. I think that Blizzard wants to appease the casual players who can "only" play 1, 2 hours per day with the new areas in Outland, but once your char is at 70 and has seen everything, what's left? More farming and grinding.
josh Oct 7th 2006 1:04AM
token based lewt = teh ghey
josh Oct 7th 2006 1:06AM
let me elaborate. Any loot that takes months to acquire is Dee Dee Dee. And hence why I no longer play WoW. There are better things to do with months of my time than get a silly imaginary piece of armor to show off to a bunch of other losers with no lives.
josh Oct 7th 2006 1:08AM
let me elaborate. Any loot that takes months to acquire is Dee Dee Dee. And hence why I no longer play WoW. There are better things to do with months of my time than get a silly imaginary piece of armor to show off to a bunch of other losers with no lives.
kuri Oct 8th 2006 2:36AM
The token system for loot is something profoundly great for instancing all-around. Token- and reputation-based systems... arguably not so much, since the time invested may not be (and usually isn't) worth the loot gained.
Tokens enable a few things:
1. Dungeon replayability.
Want an item? Get the main token (a'la ZG Hakkari Girdle, etc.) and a few side items, and after about 3-10 runs with some good alternate loot in-between, you have your desired item.
2. Reduction of ninja-looters.
Logic being, if they someone ninjas a token item or something required for a quest item reward, they'll be booted and advertised on the server as the low-life they are. No gloating for them, getting that awesome epic chestpiece at the expense of a few enemies- they'll have to fend off their reputation to get much of anything.
3. Group progression mentality.
Get people in the mindset of a raid before getting into them proper. Collecting items for loot will mean people need to run instances more, and will be likely to group with people they know. Strengths and weaknesses are learned, relationships are formed, and it's all-around good. Don't have that group mentality? It'll just take longer to find good PUGs.
4. Reduced feeling of grinding.
You'll feel like you're doing less grinding, whether it's obvious or not. Getting to x boss to get x drop is never fun, especially after many attempts with 0 results. Accumulating tokens towards an item gives you the feeling of progress, which indeed is present, even if the item isn't there. This will be paramount once people hit 70 and aren't full-time raiders.
The list goes on, but I do believe this is a good mentality Blizzard developed.