Breakfast Topic: What's okay in a duel?
by Elizabeth Harper 
Oct 16th 2006 at 8:00AM
I can't say I duel much -- at least in part because I primarily play a healing-specced priest who's just hopeless at doing damage -- but also because the informal etiquette of duels confuses the heck out of me. And even worse is that everyone seems to have different opinions of what's appropriate! Some say that a duel is "anything goes" and that both sides may do whatever they can or wish in order to win. Others say that using class-specific abilities is acceptable, and nothing else. (I.e. no buffs from friends, no potions.) Some profession-related items are acceptable (engineering trinkets) while others are not (alchemy potions). In short, the entire affair is sufficiently complicated that I simply steer clear. So to the serious duelers in the audience (you know who you are!) what is and what isn't okay in a duel?
[Fan art by Guillaume Bonnet]
Filed under: PvP, Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Giffo Oct 16th 2006 8:14AM
why take a chance, there are no defined dueling rules just use whatever you need to win!
only outside help for me is unacceptable
méwyn Oct 16th 2006 8:15AM
Well, I almost never duel either, being a resto druid, and lousy at PvP... but when I do (and when it's not with friends), I say anything goes unless specified beforehand. The only thing I tend to say no to is mana and healing potions, since they are expensive to non-alchemists, and really do create an uneven playing field for those who can't afford to use them in a measly duel.
Otherwise, all's fair.
Lance Oct 16th 2006 8:28AM
I actually hate duelling. I will do it occasioanlly to see where my skill is at but i suck so it shows me nothing. i have not won one duel. But back to the topic at hand i have never actually set guidelines when duelling so i guess anything goes.
Mordiceius Oct 16th 2006 8:37AM
I HATE setting rules in duels "OMG NO COOLDOWNS!" "OMG ENGINEER!" That kind of BS only pisses me off. If I am going to duel, I am going to use cooldowns and use anything it takes for me to win. If you lose you're dead. And no matter how you fight, dead is dead. If you get in an actual fight, you can't expect the other side not to do what it takes to win, so I will do the same.
I remember when I used to play my 60 shadow spec'd priest. I dueled one of the best geared warriors in the guild and won. He got pissed because I wouldn't let him charge me in the beginning. "I only lost because you wouldn't let me charge you and because you wouldn't let me do that and you had power word: shield up, I couldn't get any rage." Oh well. You lost. Dead is dead.
Dr. McGillicutty Oct 16th 2006 8:40AM
If you've earned the ability to use something, be it a potion or a trinket or a class ability, it's fair game.
Psyclerk Oct 16th 2006 9:25AM
Let's face facts...duels are generally used for two different reasons:
1) Test out new gear, spells and/or talents, to help a player fine tune some aspect of their character's behavior. This accounts for maybe 15% of duels.
2) A cheap win to boost the ego of some loser. This is the purpose behind most duels.
In 16 months of WoW, I have been challenged to duels by someone around or below my level approximately four times. I have been challenged to duels by players far beyond my level...well, I haven't kept track, but it's likely in the triple digits by now.
People complain about you using potions or whatever class ability because they fall squarely in the second group above. They don't want a fair fight, they want an easy win to assuage their ego. Maybe they just got ganked. Maybe they just got outrolled on a drop they really wanted. Regardless, if someone challenges me to a duel then complains when I win, they go on the ignore list.
Elodren Oct 16th 2006 9:25AM
For all the times you get the Duel flag literally thrown at your feet when you were just passing through town... I say anything goes.
Neikem Oct 16th 2006 9:31AM
I have 2 60s, one being total raiding priest with no damage talent or gear at all and a rogue that makes up for that 10 fold. Overall, what I have found to be acceptable by most and accepted by myself are anything that you have proven to this point that your character can do. If you use an engi-trinket, usually they have the underlying 'requires engineering' on it. If you bandage, they require you have made it to a certain skill point. Any class or racial specific cooldowns are alrgiht as well. Be it my escape artist that helps sometimes with defeating a mage, or perception that can reduce that same rogue of mine to putty if used properly. PvP trinkets are usually allowed as well. Just since pots dont require a skill other than making gold to buy them with, they're frowned upon.
In the end, if someone does something you think is cheap, you can always reduel 'em while its on cooldown.
Stoutwell Oct 16th 2006 9:34AM
"For all the times you get the Duel flag literally thrown at your feet when you were just passing through town... I say anything goes."
No kidding! I can't count the number of times I'm working on a quest when there's a rather sudden Dual Flag tossed on me!
If someone is so damn eager to dual, anything and everything goes.
Dave Oct 16th 2006 10:01AM
For me, it's reciprocative.
A level 43 mage once asked to duel my level 34 warlock. I felt no problems one-shotting him with a Gnomish Death Ray crit for about 2k (yes, I was very lucky, but it was hilarious).
On my 60 mage, I won't use Ice Block or Cold Snap (5 and 10 minute cooldowns, both talents) in duels unless they use a potion or a
Ghostle Oct 16th 2006 10:34AM
I don't duel at all. Its worthless, what can I learn from a fight that is staged? How am I going to learn anything from that. Plus all the stupid rules people want, no pots, not cooldowns. My main is a rogue. How do you tell a rogue to not use cooldowns. Besides, a rogues main form of defence is having the advantage of stealth, your oponent not knowing you are there. A duel breaks that, so theres no point.
Thats why I just use auto decline to stop random people from challenging me. If I want a fight, I can go to STV from orgi or uc and find other 60's no problem
Toulor Oct 16th 2006 10:40AM
It's best to set the "rules" of the duel before dueling.
-It's considered polite not to purge the other persons buffs but that's a risk he is willing to take when accepting a duel.
-The more cooldowns you use in a fight really make you look worse as a fighter because you shouldn't depend on cooldowns.
-If you lose a duel to someone that used a pot then you can consider yourself the victor unless you used a pot yourself.
I've dueled rogues that will only duel once every 5 mins because of their cooldowns. This really looks bad on their part because they are dependent on cooldowns and will get destroyed in real pvp.
Tigraine Oct 16th 2006 10:38AM
Whenever I duel I tend to duel only with friends and Guild members.
In a Random Duel I am trying to win by whatever means possible without loosing Money. So I don't use pots, simply because I don't want to waste them on something as meaningless as a Duel. Anything else.. why not? Got that stuff for a reason.
What I mostly do is after I duel (I mostly win as a Warlock) i speak it through with my opponent what went wrong and we retry. I know how to beat a Warlock as a Warrior and although it will take the Warrior 5-6 duels to find out how to kill me while I am changing my tactics, after those duels he will be have a fair 50% chance to win me. And that's why I am duelling. If I loose I ask why i lost, if I win I tell why he lost.
Roseroyce04 Oct 16th 2006 11:58AM
I'm a duel whore. I love finding people than can beat me easily and challenge myself to learning how to beat them.
My three most exciting moments in dueling are beating someone that significantly outlevels me and underestimate me, beating someone that significantly outgears me, and (my fave) losing after a winning streak of beating easy people.
Losing is so exciting because it means now I have an obstacle to overcome. I have a new peak to climb. And I'm always searching for that moment.
I accept all duels from all classes at all levels no matter what. For at least one duel I'll put down whatever I'm doing for it. If we're somewhat equals and you beat me I'll be able to stop everything and just focus on finding a way to beat you.
To me, dueling is both a learning and entertaining experience. Nothing frustrates me more than dominating people without hope for losing. In case you're wondering, stunlock (etc) is not the kind of domination I'm talking about, there are always ways around stunlocks (and kiting) unless the rogue (mage/hunter) got lucky. I'm talking about dominating someone because they're not trying.
However, I love teaching people (who have the will power) how to beat me. And it's always a triumph for the both of us when they win. It means they've learned something and I have a new dueling buddy.
^.^
Jay Oct 16th 2006 11:10AM
Hmm Duels are intresting in the fact that they are a good way to test your Reactions and ablitys ect, regarding what is acceptable and what isn't..
its a un-writen rule that pots and eng things are off-limits but bandages arn't..wierd huh.
but this is what i use and most of the other horde do to.
Roseroyce04 Oct 16th 2006 11:59AM
@Toulor:
-I think it's disrespectful for someone to not purge my buffs if they could've won based on that. It insults me and my effort. If I win because you didn't give it your all I consider it a loss.
-The more cooldowns you use the more intense the fight. Not using them makes the fight feel staged and lame. It's no fun. Besides, if they burn cooldowns and you still overcome the odds it makes the victory that much sweeter. If they win because of them it makes the loss that much sweeter (you know they had to work hard for their win). If they burn a ridiculous amount of cooldowns (because they were used inappropriately) to win, reduel them. If they win again without cooldowns they earned it.
-That's crazy
Asspigeon Oct 16th 2006 11:47AM
Do not pot during duels, if you do, you can't really consider it a win unless the other person pots. Do not have anything but your own buffs during a duel (paladins, hunters, etc...), somebody who is raid buffed will obviously own somebody who is not. Engineers are questionable, sometimes people will complain, other times you will find that nobody really cares. Finally, blow whatever cooldowns you want, playing your class to its full potential is the point of dueling and not doing so would be silly. Finally, keep in mind that you shouldn't wait until all your cooldowns are back up to duel again, see if you can find workarounds that don't involve your longer cooldowns!
Argent Oct 16th 2006 11:30AM
i generally don't have any pre-set rules about duels, but i do have one hang-up: if someone stuns/runs/hides and goes out of combat to drink or eat, i won't ever duel them ever again. to me, that is borderline exploitative in terms of abusing game mechanics to accomplish something fairly meaningless in the scheme of things.
Luclan Oct 16th 2006 12:22PM
no outside interference, I think a duel is a 1v1 thing and obviously if an unbuffed char is fighting a char that has every buff imaginable the odds are slightly tilted. do i expect the buff'd one to debuff it all? NO! i dont think i would. If someone uses a potion when i fight them Thats fine with me, whatever they gotta do. someone else mentioned in pvp you cant say "hey that hunter used a pot just before he died, thats not fair" no you came unprepared for that fight, you to can go get pots. its called being prepared and the only thing that i think isnt good dueling ettiquete is outside interference.
Azuress Oct 16th 2006 12:26PM
"The more cooldowns you use in a fight really make you look worse as a fighter because you shouldn't depend on cooldowns.
I've dueled rogues that will only duel once every 5 mins because of their cooldowns. This really looks bad on their part because they are dependent on cooldowns and will get destroyed in real pvp." -Toulor
Ok so what is a rogue supposed to do stand there and sinister strike because everything a rogue has is a cool down. It’s like telling a Druid he can’t shift forms, or a Pally he can’t heal. Rogues are already handicapped in duels because we rely on surprise. Hunters drop traps and sit on it, toss flares everywhere. Mages Ice barrier, rank1 arcane explosion everywhere, warriors demo shout, etc. We have to have our cooldowns because we are always in a disadvantage every time we duel.
Anyways I rarely duel mainly because I’m a PvE spec Rogue and a healbot Priest but when I do anything goes, bandages, pots, cool downs whatever.