Burning Crusade talent updates
by Elizabeth Harper 
Oct 24th 2006 at 3:15PM
In today's round of changes we seem to have... I'm sorry, but I can think of no better way to phrase it... nerfs. Paladins, mages, and warlocks have all gotten some talent tweaks that reduce their power. I don't think the warlock change was uncalled for (that talent was beyond belief in its previous form), and can't say much for the rest. Your thoughts?Paladin
- Vengeance - Increases damage by 2/4/6/8/10%, reduced from 3/6/9/12/15%
- Crusader Strike - Cooldown increased to 10 sec., from 6 sec. Should now have new icon.
- Molten Fury - Rank 3 removed. Ranks 1 and 2 unchanged.
- Elemental Precision - Changed to "Reduces the mana cost and chance targets resist your Frost and Fire spells by 1/2/3%."
- Empowered Fireball - Reduced to 3% per rank from 4%
- Unholy Power - Reverted to "Increases the damage done by your Voidwalker, Succubus, Felhunter, and Felguard's melee attacks by 4/8/12/16/20%." It no longer increases Shadow and Fire damage.
Filed under: Mage, Paladin, Warlock, News items, Expansions
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Gifflen Oct 24th 2006 4:36PM
It was just a matter of time before the nerf bat came out.
Really isn't to much of a surprise.
twh Oct 24th 2006 3:41PM
Those paladin nerfs are not justified at all...
...yet, I'm not surprised in the least.
Asir Oct 24th 2006 3:44PM
What a surprise...remember when they reduced SoC to 75% weapon damage...hello nerf bat. And to think I was actually considering my pally as a main character again. Looks like I'll keep my Hunter who will be in God mode with the super overpowered BM tree, but remember pallys need nerfed.
Roseroyce04 Oct 24th 2006 4:09PM
Vengeance nerf was uncalled for. Crusader Strike should be 8 seconds. The new icon sucks.
Mage changes are fine although I don't understand the EMpowered Fireball nerf.
And I don't understand the Unholy Power nerf. All it did was make lower tier Demonology more appealing. (Considering the 5% was once in MD for 41 point Demonology locks)
Moises Policart Oct 24th 2006 5:33PM
So they nerf the things that didnt need to be nerfed?
Demonplogy finaly sees some love and its nerfed.
Palladins DPS already gimped is nerfed?
blizz...who understands it?
Druid dude Oct 24th 2006 5:07PM
Wow, they are really getting out the Nerf Bats aren't they? Its like one super cool thing after another just keeps getting watered down.
KLRMNKY Oct 24th 2006 5:22PM
Why I am not suprised?
Paladins = nerf
First they nerf the only thing worth going 31 into the ret tree by dropping it to 8 secs, which is nothing damagewise when you are weilding a 2H, at least when it was higher you could actually get in more than 1-2 swings before it ran out.
Now they nerf it even further. Why? Do they want to take a class that cannot outdamage anything melee and make it further weaker?
Is Blizz telling us that the only thing Pallys are good for is being a so-so priest in plate?
Or do they just want Pallys to be casters only?
Blizzard please make up your mind because I'm tired of watching the class go downhill while the other classes get powered up...
Casval Sunrage Oct 24th 2006 5:30PM
MIGHTY PALAYDAN NERFBAT, LOL!
"sigh" really..
Not that I planned on going Retribution but..
-----------------
Lord Casval Sunrage of the Sunrage Dynasty ( Future RPPVP Guild )
http://sunrage.proboards75.com/index.cgi
Unkle Oct 24th 2006 5:55PM
Good. More pally nerfs please.
Their survivability is so high, they shouldn't be able to kill anything anyway. They should just stand there and not die.
Rar Oct 24th 2006 10:44PM
#6:
"Now they nerf it even further. Why? Do they want to take a class that cannot outdamage anything melee and make it further weaker?"
Paladins are a hybrid class. They should not be able to out-damage a Warrior in close combat, and they should not be able to out-heal a Priest.
"Is Blizz telling us that the only thing Pallys are good for is being a so-so priest in plate?"
A so-so Priest in plate with a major melee DPS advantage, yes.
I agree with the nerf; paladins were already overpowered in the first place. Now we just need to fix that "Pop my bubble and hearthstone out!" trick.
Argent Oct 24th 2006 11:04PM
my 45 warrior can out dps my raid-geared paladin.
my rogue was out-dps'ing him by the time i hit RFD.
weapon my paladin uses? sulfuras.
a paladi outdamaging a warrior just makes me laugh. i might out-dmg a mediocrely geared prot warrior in blues in greens, but but any fury spec i'm not even gonna come close to. arms warrs will out dps them as well and oh yeah, if a full prot spec really wanted to go turn ont he juice and DW tank, they could prolly out dps us me as well.
lest i forget...i have a 60 holy.disc priest as well. and yes, he out-dpses my paladin as well. major dps advantage? i kinda doubt it.
Argent Oct 24th 2006 11:06PM
well, if that's your critera, -- awesome. then un-ef us asa. because even in heavy melee-ds build we cna't out-dps most prot warriors and we've never been able to even come close ot outhealing priests to begin with.
so, based on that criteria, i'd say your orgument should be AGAINST the nerfs we just got, not for.
Argent Oct 24th 2006 11:08PM
well, if that's your critera, -- awesome. then un-nerf us asap. because even in heavy melee-dps build we can't out-dps most prot warriors and we've never been able to even come close to outhealing priests to
begin with.
so, based on that, i'd say your orgument
should be AGAINST the nerfs we just got, not for.
twh Oct 24th 2006 11:58PM
@#10:
The problem was NOT to have DPS that exceeded Rogues, Warriors, and whatever.
It was to have SUSTAINABLE DPS. With a short cooldown like six seconds, we could help several paladin judgments refresh without them having to worry about it all at once. We'd have three chances to do so. Now, we only have one, if we miss, then goodbye judgments that could have made the raid easier.
This is just Blizzard kowtowing to Rogues and Warriors because paladins are a real threat to them now.
onetrueping Oct 25th 2006 1:09AM
You know, I didn't believe the stories of whiney pallies until now, having never met one. Neither of the Paladins I know personally ever had a problem with DPS or healing. Then I came here, and saw you guys complaining about adjustments to talents YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED!
Good lord, people, it's a few months to go. They're trying to make things balance out. Show some patience and stop making your class look bad!
Or, if you can't handle that, PLAY A DIFFERENT CLASS. You clearly have unrealistic expectations for being Paladins. You want DPS? Roll a rogue or warrior! You want healing? Roll a Priest! You want a little of both, a lot of defence, and a get-out-of-jail-free card for when things get tight? Play a Paladin and suck it up!
Avenge Oct 25th 2006 8:27AM
To #10
It's funny how you say that paladins are a hybrid class and shouldn't be able to out DPS a warrior or other when shamans are hybrid and they have pretty good DPS, some of the ones I have seen can take half your HP in a single hit. Not to mention they heal faster. Also who really bubble hearths anyways, I have never done that the entire time I have played with my paladin. That would only be helpful when you are about to be jumped and you are of low lvl, and even then, I would still fight you sorry bastards before I would ever bubble hearthed. It's funny how one little trick that some paladins use makes you so upset. Like it's some kind of major advantage in gameplay, sorry you didn't get that one kill, I know it meant alot to you...
twh Oct 25th 2006 8:52AM
onetrueping;
You, like so many others, fail to grasp what we've been clammoring for, for the past two years.
We don't want Rogue/Warrior/whatever calibur DPS. We want paladin DPS that's SUSTAINABLE! As in, we can keep it up to a degree that would be beneficial.
And of course we're mad about it because we're never going to have a chance to use that ability when it was at its best and the way it was supposed to be used!
Seriously, get a clue!
Sam Oct 25th 2006 10:50AM
My main is a Palladin. Ive been hearing this sort of thing since launch, arguments back and forth, overpowered vs underpowered. Here is my deal. I love Palladins! I like that all I really have to do is out last and I can win. Sometimes I can, sometimes not. I dont think Pallys are lacking that much in PvP, the problem is PvE. For groops, If you want Dps you have many choices, If you want healing you have many choices, if you want a tank you really have one choice, and that of course is the W-word. I would just like Pallys to be able to tank enough to where you hear, "LFM tank, warrior or pally will do" Im not saying we should be able to out tank a warrior but be close enough that we are not laughed at. I am hoping that BC will make that possible. The way I see it, I will have enough points to get holy shock (taunt) Improved righteouse fury (Threat) and SoC (Dps) I think that combo will make for a tank that can stand up to the challenge. What do you guys think?
Rar Oct 25th 2006 11:50AM
To #16:
Shamans being able to take 1/2 HP in one hit: Elemental shamans are deisgned for that kind of thing - large initial burst damage. Shamans are a jack-of-all-trades, master of none class.
And yes, Shamans have "pretty good" DPS - jack-of-all-trades, remember - but they cannot out-DPS a warrior.
To all in general - here's my biggest arguments for Paladins being overpowered. There is one ability they have that makes them waaaaaaaay too powerful:
The ability to make themselves invulnerable to everything, and heal themselves while they are invulnerable.
Invulnerability is a very powerful ability by itself, but being able to replenish your health while invulnerable is way too strong.
The "nerf" I would want to see for Paladins is this: take away their ability to heal while invulnerable.
If I truly hated Paladins, I'd want Invulnerability gone entirely - but to be fair, they should at least not be able to heal while invulnerable.
twh Oct 25th 2006 11:54AM
Rar:
In that case, next time you face down a pally, bring a lvl70 priest with you.