Grind all the way to 70? Maybe not.
by David Nelson 
Nov 6th 2006 at 4:00PM
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This announcement from Tigole (via WoW Vault) states that Blizzard is trying to put a little more of the multiplayer back into their MMORPG. Well...at least as far as EXP goes as you make your way to 70. Some highlights:- Blizzard is going to make questing a more applealing way to level. I assume this means more experience for turn ins, making questing a viable option for the speed levelers, rather than grinding for hours on end.
- The leveling curve will be lengthened, providing a longer (and hopefully content-filled) experience.
- They plan on placing more emphasis on dungeon experience. I hope this is true, as I think it is silly that you are penalized so heavily for grouping up in a game that is supposed to be all about interacting with others.
- Blizzard is going to place less emphasis on outdoor grinding while not on a quest. I wonder if they are doing this by nerfing EXP from mobs or if they are going to buff questing to the point where you'd be crazy to grind. Or possibly a little of both.
I would say this is pretty good news! What do you guys think?
Filed under: News items, Expansions
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Thingy Nov 6th 2006 5:53PM
When I see this information, all I can think of is the quests I skipped due to the effort&cost vs reward ratio was just too low. With what I've seen so far it may be possible, but only if there isn't the large number of quests which are just complete turnoffs like such as Desolace, >40 STV and El-Bore-o Crater ones.
I have both a hunter (main) and a priest (alt), I found some quests I loved on my hunter I ended up skipping on my priest and vice versa. For example both toons I grinded 25-30 due to running out of quests, but with my hunter it was back to grinding from 40-52 due to only being able to find craptastic quests, where as the priest I only did the occasional grinding in the mid 50's and only when quest spots were being farmed dry.
Theadrick Nov 6th 2006 4:28PM
I've levelled 4 characters to 60, and have 2 more in their mid 40s levelling up. I didn't "grind" with any of them.
In my opinion, the most efficient way to level up is by doing clusters of quests in certain zones. I suppose this in itself is a form of grinding, but not in the traditional EQ sense.
Also, when one character runs out of rested XP, I switch over to another. That helps immensely.
Mordiceius Nov 6th 2006 4:27PM
Personally, I LOVE this.
One of my guildies posted this in our forums recently (he's in beta):
"Now requires 744380 xp for level 64, it was ~440 something. I actually like the idea of a longer leveling curve so the nice 5-10 man content isn't a total waste."
I was running some random calculations on my estimates and this is what I came to:
61 - 520k
62 - 590k
63 - 660k
64 - 750k
65 - 850k
66 - 960k
67 - 1080k
68 - 1110k
69 - 1250k
70 - 1400k
Total = 9,170,000XP
I would LOVE this to be true. I am a complete content whore. I LOVE 5-mans and I LOVE questing so this is good for people like me. (Plus, I'm rerolling a pally in the xpac so by the time I reach level 60, my guildies will only be like 64-66). This is exciting.
Sylythn Nov 6th 2006 4:36PM
I'm thinking I've hit 46 without doing anything more than 1-2 bubbles of grinding the whole time. In fact, I leveled almost entirely in the Undead regions (and on that continent) until my 40's...then things got scarce and I had to head over to some of the neutral goblin towns to pick up other quests. Maybe I've still got a big grinding session to look forward to as I hit 50-60, but honestly, I haven't had any problem leveling through quests and dungeons.
Mordiceius Nov 6th 2006 4:31PM
Thingy, one thing I have heard from almost everyone in the xpac is that there are too many quests. They were moving zones before they could complete many quests because so many were so green. And this is with a couple zones still closed off with no access. So I see no problem with quests.
Rezza Nov 6th 2006 4:45PM
Placing emphasis on questing sounds fine, however, as a casual player I'm concerned that less exp will possibly be awarded for above ground grinding and more for dungeons. I know a lot of people who prefer not to join groups because they are "on call" in real life and need to be able to leave the game at any time. This certainly doesn't mean that we don't find ways to interact with other players. How about a soloable dungeon instance of some sort?
Throw the casual players a few more bones. We help pay for the raid content for hardcore players, content that we will never see :)
Klingsor Grailhunter Nov 6th 2006 4:50PM
Actually, I do have a problem with one point - if world content is only relevant for quests, then what's the point in having a world? It's certainly not very immersive if there's no point to exploring, or if all directional movement is controlled by the game (remember Dungeon Siege?)
I don't like grinding, either, but I surely don't want to see WoW become an arcade game...
Hub Nov 6th 2006 4:55PM
My bf and I level our toons together, and I'm really happy to hear this. We have a lot of fun running quests together or finding a few other people to run a dungeon. But, we always leveled slower because of the grouping xp nerf. It's a social game, and I've never understood the huge penality for grouping.
Therizo Nov 6th 2006 4:50PM
I've gotten 2 characters to 60, and have never killed a mob outside of trying to finish a quest on either of them before the cap. Questing to max level is VERY viable in retail as it is. Not all the quests are easy, and some of them involve a lot of travel, but I find most of them far superior than grinding out mindlessly. To me this is just blizz reaffirming their previous intents, and saying that dungeons will be even more effective than before. The same post even specifically said that dungeons would NOT be necessary to quest to 70, but would be very rewarding.
Mordiceius Nov 6th 2006 4:56PM
GRAHHHHHHH nothing bothers me more than casuals saying "Give us soloable dungeon content." THEY GIVE YOU SOLOABLE CONTENT! IT'S CALLED QUESTS IN ZONES! Dear god, I don't want to have instances lower than 5-man, it'd just get rediculous. Just do quests.
Kaziel Nov 6th 2006 5:04PM
Rezza: That concept was beaten to death in another thread. Simply put, the challenge of making a solo dungeon is way harder than the rewards it would give. Remember, you'd need to tune it 9 or more different ways to take into account the setup of each class (I say "or more" taking into account the different abilities of different specs), not to mention designing rewards for each class. The process of making such a dungeon would be very very time consuming.
On the other hand, if they would make more quest lines that start out with a number of soloable quests, and end with an elite quest that can be done quickly, with good rewards, I think that would be perfect. I've already found one quest like this in Hellfire Peninsula (I am in Beta). It starts off with a series of quests to rescue a lost scout, then some "kill some orcs" quests. Finally you are given a quest to kill an elite orc... a "Force-Commander" I believe. I was able to solo the most of the quests, then using the LFG interface, then going and questing while I waited. After a little while I was able to get 2 people and we went and quickly killed the boss. The initial 9 or 10 quests all had decent rewards (gold, or a little green piece of armor), but the final reward was a blue armor with stats better than my Tier 1 epic robe.
More quests like this would give people who can't do 5-man dungeons a good reward, without having to spend the time to make things like single or dual-man dungeons.
Klingsor Grailhunter Nov 6th 2006 5:58PM
In thinking about all this, I guess I do have a concern with the direction Blizzard is going. Consider this: if Azeroth content ("the world") is only intended for quests, what is the point in exploring Azeroth? Instance everything, and just provide a central lobby where players can spam each other. In other words, an arcade game...
Part of the attraction of the game is its immersive nature - you're experiencing Azeroth. If directional movement is completely controlled by the game (like Dungeon Siege) then there's really no point in riding around and finding new things. Everyone has a favorite spot or location in the game, and likely you didn't find it while on a quest - you found it just by exploring.
Nobody likes to grind, but Blizzard needs to think carefully before they start tampering with some of the more subtle aspects of the game that make it so appealing to so many.
Psyclerk Nov 6th 2006 5:16PM
On my PvP server, I did a decent bit of grinding to hit 60. That was mainly due to the fact that some quests, esepcially post-40, were either available to both factions or had similar goals. That meant lots of ganking, so I tended to find a quiet spot to grind.
On PvE however...I could count on one hand the number of monsters I've killed outside of quest requirements. If you know where to look, there are more than enough quests to last you a while. My shaman is halfway to 54 and has 18 quests in his quest log. I can think of at least a dozen quests waiting on him once he's cleared some log space.
If they want to make 60-70 the same way, I'm all for it.
bliSSter Nov 6th 2006 5:34PM
Just out of curiosity from the past couple of posts...did anyone here bother to play Diablo 2? Soloable dungeons anyone?...
Kaziel Nov 6th 2006 5:42PM
bliSSter: Entirely different game. While yes, there are similarities between D2 and WoW, the basic design of the game was entirely different. For example: Potions. In WoW, drinking a potion will give you a cooldown of 2 minutes I believe (not certain the exact time), while in D2 you could, literally pop pots by the dozen. And that's just one example of a basic design difference between the games.
bliSSter Nov 6th 2006 6:03PM
I agree, Diablo 2 was a different critter...but to say that it's nigh impossible to design content around so many different classes I think doesn't do the developers proper justice. I think that it could be done, just not based on the current system. What D2 got right was dynamic, instanced zones. That coupled with dynamic loot tables (which they're already doing to a degree with difficulty scaling on zones - normal versus hard), would make a great twist to current game dynamics. Of course, we could theorycraft 'what-ifs' all day and it won't change the way the game is currently built, but one can still dream right? ;)
Irregardless, I'm really looking forward to more quests than I can shake a stick at. Should help me to afford that OH-so-expensive epic flying mount training...
In current retail, I believe at 60 you can still do quests that are like 10 levels lower and they're still green with compensatory gold given in lieu of experience. I wonder if they're going to keep that feature in at level 70? Hopefully so! :)
Mike Nov 7th 2006 6:19PM
Actually, this just doesn't seem necessary.
Anyone who thinks grinding is more "beneficial" than questing ... let them grind. This just means they are working to level as quickly as possible. Make grinding boring. Slow down the levelling process. I don't play to level up as quickly as possible. I play for the quests. I like the balance right now.
Additionally, while there is a group XP nerf, running a dungeon is still one of the quickest ways to level up. You don't have to consume as much water or food, less down time.... plus you get better drops which enable you to equip your character better (money or the items themselves). Plus, the quests from dungeons usually give great XP. I have never ran a dungeon of appropriate level and not come close to gaining a full level. Much faster than questing and grinding (generally).
Finally, it is just naturally more fun to play in a group.
Doesn't seem broken. Don't fix it!
Kaziel Nov 6th 2006 6:51PM
Grailhunter: I'm not quite sure what the point of what you're saying is... If I understand it correctly, you're thinking that Blizzard is saying "The only way to level is to quest. You should only quest. If you don't quest, you're doing it wrong." Now, as I said, I might be misunderstanding what your saying, but my interpretation of what Blizzard is doing is the opposite. By my understanding, the issue at hand is that it's not possible to get from 60 to 70 (or 67 right now) only questing. If you don't do instances or don't grind, it's impossible to get to level cap (I can't state this for certain, since I'm only 63). What Blizz intends is that anyone, with any play style can get to level cap.
Now, If I've misunderstood you, would you care to elaborate?
bliSSter: I don't think the issue would be that it's impossible. It's more a case of the effort vs. reward factor would be out of whack for the designers. The amount of effort to make one compared to the lifespan it would have and how much it would give the players would make it not worthwhile for the devs. That's what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear.
And as for dynamic loot from Hard Mode, I'm not so sure it will be dynamic. Hard Mode should work by increasing the mob level of a dungeon to be a challenge for level 70s, thus the bosses will be 71-73 elites, and will probably have preset rewards appropriate for level 70s (if they don't just drop tokens).
Druid dude Nov 6th 2006 6:51PM
FOr me, the jury is out on this for now. SOunds great in theory, and if they can pull it off, it should be cool.
I have 3 60s. With my Druid, questing a LOT was the faster way to go. But with my Fury warrior and Hunter, a lot of grinding was much faster than most quests. The best quests for them were the ones where you have to kill lots of mobs. The worst were ones where you have to fly around to a zillion different places, talking to this and that NPC. Those were massively slower on XP than just sitting down in an area and destroying anything that moved.
Klingsor Grailhunter Nov 6th 2006 7:13PM
Kaziel:
I think you read me correctly - it's mostly a matter that we're all trying to interpret Blizzard through incomplete information.
My perception on the upcoming changes is that, while the value of questing will be greatly enhanced, the purpose/need/enjoyment of exploring will be greatly curtailed. If mobs give little or no XP except as quests (as has been suggested), or if there is no possibility of any meaningful items outside of quests or instances, then "exploring Azeroth" as we now know it will cease.
I'm suggesting that the huge popularity of WoW is based on a lot of intangibles as well as more obvious features, and the immersive quality of Azeroth is a significant attraction. Remove that, and I believe we edge closer to an inert arcade game (or Dungeon Siege/Guild Wars/insert your favorite Doomsday scenario here)...