"The Lament of the Raidleader"
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 8th 2006 at 12:45AM
Gharuvy over on the forums posits this theorem: that most instances/raids/encounters are based upon the ability of 25% of the players to "do their job effectively"-- for 5 mans, that's just one person, for 20 mans, it's about five people, and for a full raid it's 10 people. He also adds that it only takes one person to "ruin" an encounter. He then adds, somewhat poetically, that that is the "lament of the raidleader"-- it's too much to expect everyone to be in that "effective" slice of the group, but not too much to expect no one to be in that "ruin" section.To a certain extent, he's right. People have run Onyxia, perhaps the seminal 40 man raid encounter, with only 10 players (in fact, they've run it with six before). In my personal experience, as long as you have a core group of people who know what they're doing, everyone could pretty much stand there and do the bare minimum, and you'd still finish an encounter without much fuss. And I personally have dragged four people with me through Deadmines on my priest. They were terrible-- one mage pulled aggro constantly, the other didn't sheep, the warrior didn't use a shield, and didn't bother to even switch targets when the mage pulled aggro. And yet I pulled them through it all just because I played my role perfectly and kept everyone alive while doing damage (just in case you think I'm bragging, I've been on the other side of it, too-- I'm in MC when a family member calls, and I'm too distracted to do anything on my Shaman except spam lightning bolt).
And it's true that most raidleaders don't (or at least shouldn't) expect perfection. On any raid, you're going to have a core group of people who know what they're doing, and another set of players who either aren't well geared enough or (more likely) experienced enough in the encounter to play their roles well. Is it true that one person can "ruin" the raid? In some cases it is (ever had a bomb explode an entire group during Baron Geddon?), but in most cases, I think one player's stupid actions will likely get them killed, but not necessarily down the raid.
Then again, I'm a casual raider, so to date, I've never played Naxx. Do you need more than 25% to be on top of their game there? Are the later raiding encounters more difficult in that you really need to coordinate 40 people, or, considering everyone is geared well, can you pull them off when 1/4 of you are great, and the rest of you are just pretty good?
Filed under: Priest, Shaman, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Instances, Quests
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
foip Nov 8th 2006 1:22AM
You can get the first Naxx bosses down while dragging some T1 geared players along. It can get ugly, but it's certainly been done.
And I've seen far too many noobs being pulled through raids who had no fucking clue what they were doing.
I also gave up my belief that Naxx raiding equals skill. Wrong. It merely equals having grinded raid content for so long that enough people got their hands on über gear. Been with a Naxx raiding guild in MC and saw them pull a flame pack together with Geddon and two of them bloing up in the raid when they were the bomb. the same idiot behavioru you get in a startup raid, only that they had the gear to survive that, heal the damage and kick the mobs hard enough to get through it. Without much skill involved.
Roseroyce04 Nov 8th 2006 1:26AM
Only 25% of a person has to be aware for the character to do it's job... less with uber gear.
Go go gear crutches, walkers, and canes!
Bill G Nov 8th 2006 2:40AM
Our guild has downed 7 Naxx bosses, and my opinion is that for a given encounter, it's all about practice.
And my guess is that practice allows the "challenged learners" to figure out how to behave as to *not* blow up the raid.
I don't think that a few initial tries on a boss is enough aggregate time to increase anyone's overall skill level. They just teach them what *not* to do to blow up the raid.
My raiding main is a rogue. If I stood in the right place and autoattacked would I blow up the raid? Nope.
But if I ran to the wrong position after being plagued or poisoned. That'd could do it.
Mediocre skill isn't the raid killer, its usually stupid moves or simply not paying attention.
Villeeus Nov 8th 2006 3:00AM
Our guild is only running ZG at the moment, but we're finding it incredibly tedious because only a fraction of us manage to stick to even the simplest strategies.
This would be fine if our members were loyal enough to stick it out and learn what to do, but half of them soon decide to apply for better geared, more established guilds where their crappy skills are veiled by the rest of the group.
I think the hardest part of raiding instances is finding enough friends who have the time and dedication to form the reliable core of your raids in the first place.
Gunn Nov 8th 2006 10:33AM
I'm mage officer of a guild that's downed the first 2 bosses in Naxx and can clear BWL in 4hrs (farm status).
The article poster had it about right, However I would say that for a raid to be successful in anything past Molten Core then 20-25 people need to know what they're doing and 10-15 need to at least be able to follow directions.
I can only speak for my mages, but when I'm recruiting I have them play with us for a week at least and see how well they do. I'll accept any intelligent mage in as long as they have Fire resist gear above 125 and don't screw up. I'm also vocal on vent and type out every difficult boss encounter regardless if we have newbies with the mages or my vets.
I guess what I'm saying is that as long as you're staying focus'd and playing smart. That's what is important in BWL and further raids. If you play dumb and don't pay attention you're going to make mistakes that could possibly wipe the raid or at the least make your officer wonder why they brought you along.
Swiftlydead Nov 8th 2006 9:35PM
C'Thun? If you don't have every single member on their A-Game, the trash before C'Thun will annihilate you. It is literally manu magnitudes of difficulty above NEFARIAN. C'Thun himself is no different -- victory requires every person to be "in the zone."
Druid dude Nov 8th 2006 11:42AM
I think the 25% is contingent on 40 or 50 percent at least being somewhat useful.
AQ40, that goes up. 50% or better seriously on top of it, almost everyone else at least somewhat useful. There are a couple spots where a single person being stupid will wipe the entire raid.
Naxx, it goes up again. Most encounters are more like 75% to 85% totally on top of what they are doing, with a slimmer margin for screwing up.
Repeek Nov 8th 2006 12:31PM
With 11 bosses down in Naxx, it's safe to say the majority of the encounters do only require solid gameplay from 30-40%. The tier 1 bosses in naxx are all relatively easy...Fights like Thaddius and Loatheb/Gothik (and undoubtedly Four Horsemen) truly separate the quality players from the dead weight. even Heigan can be killed with only 15.
Kazzaam Nov 8th 2006 2:17PM
It all depends on the strength of the group. In 5 man instances, one higher level or over-equipped toon can easily carry a group of weaker toons. On the other hand, if everyone is at the minimum level, then all must play well to suceed.
Of course, one bad pull can often get the group wiped. But that's what makes the game fun an challenging. I've made my share of mistakes, so I try not to get angry at the noobs. Who can forget that first time you took a quick break and came back to find a group of angry ghosts?
CGL Nov 10th 2006 10:57AM
I am not the most experienced instance runner at all, but I learned about my role as a priest and practiced before I ever grouped up, I think I did very well, and not only kept the group alive but ended up killing a large amount of the creatures in Deadmines, I'm curious to see how much this changes with 40 man raids.