Forum Post of the Day: Cheap respecs make the game more fun
by Elizabeth Harper 
Nov 16th 2006 at 2:00PM
Well, I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed by this thread on the beta forums, which praises the 1 copper respecs currently available to beta players. Of course, not everyone agrees -- there are also those who side with Blizzard's standing opinion on the matter, which states that your talent spec shouldn't be a casual decision, and ought to mean something. And perhaps poster Warrenders hits the nail on the head when he explains that: It would invalidate talent choices and specs as everyone can be any spec they want any time they wanted. Why not just make all talents baseline skills and be done with it then?
But regardless of your opinion on the issue, there is some excellent discussion -- from both sides of the fence -- here.
Filed under: Odds and ends, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Deusirae Nov 16th 2006 2:29PM
Isn't that kind of what they did with the healer-hybrid classes? Blizzard pretty much forces you to play a healer. Any Druid, Pally or Shaman can say that they are one spec or another...in an end-game instance, they are healers, and cleansers.
Geo Nov 16th 2006 2:30PM
I wish there was a way you can demo your specs. I created a new rogue alt and yeah - while I can use talent calculators I really don't know the class very well, I'm not sure if the talent I'm selecting is actually going to be useful to my play style until I use it and it a pain to shell out so much gold to change it.
On the other hand, I understand the philosophy or having your talent points as something that defines your character and makes it unique - not something that you change at a whim like a robe or low level weapon.
Deusirae Nov 16th 2006 2:38PM
@2 I agree with that a little, but shouldn't we push for the idea of a burn-in phase? You have a 2 day period to decide whether you like the spec or not. Then you have to fork out some money. Otherwise, why let a person change at all?
The bottom-line is that end-game instances and raiding cause classes to relearn everything in order to full your roll. Just look at hunters. See many hunter pets actively raiding in MC? Probably not, and for good reason. Again, it comes down to how Blizzard views the class. In my own opinion, if you want a broad idea of how the class is played, that is fine. But don't define it by raids and PvP alone. On of the greatest things about WoW pre-60 is the character customization that you can have.
J-Bob Nov 16th 2006 4:39PM
I just wish there was a way to confirm you spec before it's final. Ever click the wrong talent? Or put more points than you meant to in a talent?
That can be a very expensive mis-click.
Druid dude Nov 16th 2006 2:58PM
At least for a Druid, spec and gear are tied together. A resto druid with a ton of healing gear can't just respec Feral and be effective; they need the feral gear. Same goes for Balance.
Its probably not quite as severe for many classes though. Still, 50 gold to respec hurts, and the prices discourage players from trying out different specs, and probaly often missing a more effective spec than what they are currently using.
Kryz Nov 16th 2006 4:23PM
Yeah, maybe not eliminate costs all together, but making it cheaper would be fantastic. Classes like Palidins are expected to heal/cleanse in raids, but if they want to PVP or solo something, they need a respec. They would still have their respective roll in raids, but the freedom to do what they want. I understand it being something that shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt, but it's going against the individuality of players in the game.
Or I like the idea of a period of time before the skills "sink in". I heard that brought up before on the Blizz forums I believe.
Todd Nov 16th 2006 3:57PM
It seems to me that, post-60, you only have a few viable options for specs per character type. You are either raid-speced, or pvp-speced. If Blizzard wants us to have different character types, then they should expand the plot post-60, and provide quest-lines that have equipment options.
Waterloo Nov 16th 2006 3:58PM
I think the solution is to have the Public Test Realms always available, even if there isn't a current patch to test. And have respecs on the PTRs cost 1c. (I've never used a PTR, but I plan to to try out some pre-BC builds for my 48 Shaman).
Let me play with builds on a parallel server where what I do (and how much money I have) don't matter.
Sylythn Nov 16th 2006 4:15PM
@1 - Blizzard doesn't force this on you, guilds do. I've known many guilds that don't force you into specific roles and it works really well. No it's not the single most efficient way to get through an instance - but there have been cases where we've discovered that some off-spec is helping the raid more than we ever considered they could.
@4 - Since when are respecs anything over 10g? You're respeccing too often. Research a spec, try it out - and by the time you've given it enough time to truly feel whether it's working or not, it should be cheap to respec again if need be.
I think it works nicely as is. I spent all my leveling as a demonology lock - and to be honest I wasn't benefiting from it much until very recently. Now I'll probably switch to affliction for raiding (and with BC)...but now that I'm approaching 60, 10g is not hard to come by for my planned switch.
On another note, the worst thing you can do is respec for raiding just before you get into it - you've "theoretically" played one spec for 60 levels...meaning it's going to take some *significant* time to get used to a new one.
Moonbat Nov 16th 2006 4:30PM
Agreed with Sylythn. I was Balance specced Druid for leveling and post-60. I did some major damage in PvP. When I switched to full resto for raiding, it took quite a while get get the timing down on Swiftmend and Nature's Swiftness (when to use, when not). Now I'm the top druid healer and one of the top healers overall. And I'm efficient to boot! Working on my tier3 set.
I PvP once in a while as resto druid. Man, I'm hard to kill.
Burgdorn Nov 16th 2006 4:49PM
OK... I'm sorry but agreeing with this idea is ludicrous. It is wishful thinking to think that it is ok. The games mechanics are designed to allow oneself to respec at cost and unless they lift the cap come the expansion I promise it will be cheap enough for you not to care. That aside the idea is that you are sort of still picking your class. If your a hybrid, what are you specializing in? Are you straight DPS, are you more of a caster, or maybe a healer. If your a tank do you take the middle road and master your weapons, take the noble road and master defensive skills, or are you a masochist rather being in the furry of battle an inch away from dying.
I don't need to give anymore examples. This is a part of the class choice, and it involves time and effort in using a class to continue making choices. Don't ever say it should be cheap because it only is a nice quality for so long before you really begin to feel like a cookie cutter and leave the game for something else and just think that all Blizz should have done to keep you was deversify the classes more.
Jeff Nov 17th 2006 8:22AM
The solution for me is a BG spec and a real world spec.
This would make the game appeal to me ten times more, and i would play it 24/7.
I really really like PvP but i'm a raiding rogue at heart. I cant respec because i'm useless in raids if i do and thats what i mainly play the game for.
If we could have a different spec inside a BG it would improve this game so much. I really hope it happens in the future
swiftlydead Nov 16th 2006 4:54PM
If this were the case, then there would be a LOT of people running around not knowing how to play their character because they would never be good at any one spec. It almost makes me wish it were true. PvP would be a BREEZE.
Amandrel Nov 16th 2006 7:26PM
When I started playing WoW, I had no idea about talent trees, specs and builds. I didn't even know about talent points until I had a few of them stored up. Playing a Druid, I put a point here, a point there and some more points over there. That you could spec your Druid to play different styles? I had no idea. A friend clued me in and I dove into the Druid board on the WoW Forum to learn all I could. I respec'd all my points into Feral and since then every point spent has been a careful decision made based on what I think I want to achieve at this point in my game-life.
I like the fact that the system has forced me to think about what I want and learn more about the game, so I'm not a big fan of making respecs cheaper. But I would love to be able to fix something if I made a mistake or evaluate a slightly different build without risking the money. Having a PTR where I could experiment or allowing changes within a set amount of time would both work for me. And as someone who has misclicked previously, a confirmation step before committing to the talent spec would be great.
richard Nov 16th 2006 7:55PM
yeah, well if they fucking added a confirmation dialogue to the talent pane i'd have no issues.
with server lag and a 'natural lag' that seems to be built into the talents pane (you know what i'm talking about), i've misclicked one too many times in a talent i didn't want to max more than once. 50g to take that once fucking click back is retarded.
talent calcs like wowhead.com work about 800x faster than blizzard's own shitty ingame calc, and allow right clicking to 'subtract points' until you find the spec you want. then you should be able to click an 'OK, do it' button that will suck up your 50g.
Burgdorn Nov 17th 2006 4:13PM
My problem with the "BG Spec" and "Raid Spec" is that they don't help me feel like a character. You know you should really be thinking about what you want out of the new build, if it is that important to you. Also, I think one thing people really need to notice is that if your not "BG Spec" there is a good chance that the guy on the other side might not either. Other than the people that play for PvP and not end game should the most powerful spec be an option.
Your option is to make what "you" feel could cover the most of your bases. If that means a 10/20/21 type build then so be it, maybe a 21/0/30 is more your style. Fact is that you have to learn you class and than choose how you want him to feel most like you. A MMO shouldn't give you all the options in the game, regardless of what you think a Warrior really can't rely on healing himself. Talents workt he same way and the sooner you can function under that premise the sooner you can find a build that works for you and offer you the freedom you want.
Unkle Nov 17th 2006 4:51PM
'Eh, .... pvp spec, pve spec .... whatever.
Any way you put it, they're all very useful in BG. The only exception to that may be a heavily defensive warrior, but then again, they can just get a priest healing the SH!T out of them, and charge into a freakin crowd to beat people down.
My hunter is 31 BM/ 20 MM ... not at all what most would consider a "PVP" spec, however I can rip most classes to shreds in the battlegrounds. I'm wearing mostly greens at level 60, because I hardly have time to play (posting at work FTW) and I am always in the top 3 or 4 in AV, if not often #1 or 2.
Decide how you want to play, and learn to use its advantages.
Doug Nov 17th 2006 7:54PM
EZ solution to misclicking:
When clear your talent points, you should get a 15 minute period that lets you add/remove/change your points. When the time is up, you have to pay again to respec.
Blizzard should also keep the 1c respecs for the first month after BC goes live to give players a chance to get a feel for all of the new talents, without penalizing them for it.