Breakfast Topic: So You Want To Be a Guildleader?
by David Nelson 
Nov 28th 2006 at 8:00AM
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Tobold recently made a post about the trials and tribulations of running a guild in World of Warcraft. While Tobold takes a slightly broader view of the subject than is suitable for one Breakfast Topic, I was wondering...does anyone find guild leadership fun?I have been everything from a guild leader, to an officer to a lowly peon, and for the most part, it is a lot easier being the peon. Sure, being a guild leader or officer is fun for a bit, but unless you have a group of fantastic people in your guild, it can be a major league headache. Fortunately, both of my long-term leadership experiences were positive ones in WoW, but the most recent ended badly, and let me tell you, you don't want to be the GL of a guild plagued with infighting, loot controversies and endless complaining.
How about you guys? Any guild leaders out there? Any tips on how to run a tight ship? Any fun horror stories to share? Or maybe you are leading the most agreeable bunch of happy WoW players in Azeroth...either way, let us know!
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Jestah Nov 28th 2006 8:15AM
You pretty much summed it up perfectly. Being a guild leader is fun for a while because you can do things your own way. Then you have to deal with all the issues. The biggest ones for me were raid attendance and recruiting good, quality people that not only wanted to help the guild out but also wouldn't flake out and gquit in two weeks time. So after weighing out the pros and cons of being a guild leader, I would say that its not worth the time and effort.
Tigraine Nov 28th 2006 8:19AM
Maybe some people equal Guild with Raid.
I don't.
As Leader of a Raid-Alliance (Containing numerous Guilds and Individuals) I know it can be a major Headache.
At the contrast, Guild Leadership is a piece of cake because all those loot discussions and stuff take place outside the Guild in the Raid.
Ok, sometimes it can be a pain in the ass when ppl start hating each other. But because of most of our Guild Members are playing together since Release and are above the age of 20 problems get sorted out quite smoothly.
And.. yes .. That system makes the life of the raidleader a whole lot complicated. Guild A complains about Guild B for being greedy, being not ontop of the game sometimes etc, etc.
Yes.. life's complicated. But when there is a new boss to kill most ppl pull themselves together and when he goes down you always have that great feeling that you managed to get that bunch of individualists and idiots together to form a Team.
I love it .. for christs sake.. I should attend a doc.
dur13l Nov 28th 2006 9:00AM
It has its good and its bad...Any leadership position comes with A fair amount of headache.
The best advice i can give is to make your rules CLEAR and dont allow drama. I have a strict no Drama rule if people cant talk it out on vent like adults then they can find a new home. People might complain about rules but at the end of the day if they are clear and fair to all then people will respect them and follow.
The only headache i have from time to time is a Crybaby that thinks they have all the answers to the world and then whine about not bieng Geared out after a week! ..lol they usually make there way out the door fast. ....by popular demand....8)
I have meet a ton of very interesting people playing this game. So i would say yeah its worth it. Of course i dont want to meet any of the scary ass people i have meet in RL because they are all crazy and seem slightly unbalanced. Something should tell u about a person when they get excited about hanging out with 40 other nerds in there basement wasting days away. ....8)
Matt Nov 28th 2006 10:11AM
I am the leader of a fantastic guild. However, it has recently become tough, as we have progressed through nearly all of MC in 2 weeks, way faster than we expected, so loot decisions are coming up. The squabbling, however, is between the officers, and it is infuriating. I love Raid leading, which I share with the former Guild leader, who is now an officer. To get 40 people to work together to take down a boss, usually on the first try, is an amazing feeling.
Brandon Nov 28th 2006 10:04AM
I actually prefer being a guild leader a great deal. Possibly because my experience being an officer in someone else's guild, and being a peon in someone else's guild, have been horrible. Mind you this was mostly because the guild leader there was an idiot who didn't know what he was doing.
For the most part it has been fairly easy running a guild because of the way myself and my officers decided to set things up. We accepted only just over the amount needed to successfully go on raids for the point we were at, that meant we got around 20-25 people together when we were working on ZG and stopped accepting applications. As we progressed through ZG and started the 40 man instances we doubled that number and then stopped altogether again.
Doing things this way has worked well for us in several ways, one by nearly wiping out any issues with loot, the guild as a whole is geared faster and also it has stopped the problem, to a great degree, of having older members have problems with new ones. Everyone pretty much gets along.
We also set up a strict policy about issues with other players, that being, if we know about the issue, you've already broken the rule. Basically, sometimes people will annoy each other, that's life, don't bring it up to the guild, you should be the only person that knows about it, and then you should get over it. The guild really seems to like that policy.
Coanunn Nov 28th 2006 10:44AM
Well, I can honestly say that the high points of guild leading are watching those around you have a good time and the low points are watching them stop others from having a good time.
Alot of guilds are about progress, or pvp or RP but my guild is about being friends and having a good time. I have 3 rules, 1) no drags by high level members of the guild for any main character, this forces people to learn their class a bit more, 2) No non-RP chat in the guild channel during an RP, as we are on an RP server but are not a 100% RP guild this allows those who want to protect that RP feeling in game do so without forcing others to maintain seperate channels for conversation, 3) All members are subject to the loot rules and requirements set by the group leader for a particular event, and any member can organize an event. This has fostered an atmosphere that is devoid of restrictive rules except for those that protect everyone's ability to have fun.
I then have what are known as "Dave's Rules" which are my personal rules regarding any game. 1) It is only a game and real life comes first, 2) If you aren’t having fun, fix it, and 3) If you want to lead, stand up and do it and don’t worry about your title. The most controversial of which is #2 which people always seem to think means they need to change when in fact it means they should go to the leaders and propose a solution or at the very least present the problem. In the end if they aren't happy in the guild they can always leave.
The one outstanding thing is that our guild is actually a small part of our Clan that has been together for 7 years and has played numerous different games together. By letting people know what they are part of is one large family that worries about everyone having fun more than who got what sword or kill it usually sorts out the headaches.
There will always be bad apples, but life goes on once those are removed or remove themselves, in the end the people complaining and not having a good time will move on.
Donner Nov 29th 2006 12:19PM
Ive been a guild leader once before we were small about 40 people not the biggest guild on the server. It wasnt the greatest idea we ended up dieing after a few mounths cause I wanted to start getting the guild into raiding of course the guild wanted only rp so I ended up leaving at the level of 55 and joined one of the newer raiding guilds on the server.
Samidare Nov 29th 2006 1:58PM
A reluctant leader. But if possible I try my best to just kick back and toss out some ideas and help out on the side.
I've never been a guild leader, but have been an officer/raid leader since back in eq. Its great when people are listening and following your lead. The thrill of leading people and getting things done. Watching people go from crappy boe greens to epics. Turning noobs into pros.
Its all fun and games till the nature of the beast rears its ugly head. Jealousy(purple vision ftl), greed, angst, and people rl issues spill into the guild.
I spent most of my time as a council member in Dr. Phil mode. Dealing with peoples issues and keeping them from escalating into something big that could possible end to a drama-thon in the guild. From broken relationships to family tragedies. Even grief from when someone from in game has passed away.
This is a game. But remember that behind the avatars and pixels on your screen.. are real people. With real issues. I've studied psych so its a bit easier to notice it. But after a while, you tend to notice peoples behaviours...and can see whats coming before it happens. Try not to take what people say personally. Its hard, and easier said then done. But most people's bark are louder then their bite. Most are just screaming for some kind of attention. You aren't superman, you can't fix it all, and don't expect yourself to.
From a guild standpoint. Its not always going to be perfect. Moral will drop and shit will look bleak and hopeless. Having people on the same page and with the same vison is a must. They will help you out in those situations and keep your head level when times get rough. If you have no support and are trying to do it all solo.. go ahead and disband the guild and save yourself the time and trouble. You WILL burn out.
Also, in and outside of the game...give yourself some personal time. People tend to suck up every second if they can. Find an out if you are pissed or upset. Gotta get that energy out or you will blow up on your family irl, or on your guild in game.
Its not an easy job and it has its ups and downs. But start with a good base. People you can rely on and have fun with. And then build your guild around that. Be proactive and kill the drama before it starts if you can. Stick to your standards and rules and try and have fun.
Galipan Nov 28th 2006 2:14PM
I'm no guild leader, however I am an officer in mine. My guild isn't raid oriented, and to be truthful, I really enjoy it.
Trout Nov 28th 2006 2:20PM
I have been a guild officer for the last 18 months. Some days are good other days not so good. Here are a few suggestions to minimize the bad days.
1. Be serious about recruiting. When you let a slug in they almost always cause you problems later.
2. Stay away from cliques within the guild. Find ways to intermix the nature groups with new people.
3. If you support a mix of time zones try to have at least one active officer in each time zone. Nothing festers faster that a problem that goes unresoved because of time zones.
4. Keep your guild meetings short and try to schedule a post meeting guild wide adventure at least once a month. Newbies love to get invited even if they know they will die immediately. They feel part of the energy when they can go.
5. Honor your members that do things for other members. It fosters a process of helping each other. A crafter who makes things for the guild for no profit -- give them a small reward at a meeting. Even a worthless shinny ring or necklace will become a cherished item when it is earned.
6. Do not allow flaming in your chat channels. It breeds like a cancer. It also pushes people to take sides even when they would prefer not it. Take those rants and arguments to /whisper.
7. As an officer of Guild leader stop looking for people screwing up. You will hear about it even if you do not witness it. Look for members doing something Right. Praise them and those behaviors will continue.
Yes, there are days, all I want to do is play on an alt, but most of the time being an officer is a mature, well organized guild is fun, rewarding and allows you the opportunity to enhance a lot of people WoW expereince.
Guilds need Good Leaders!
Trout
Feathermoon Server
Order of the White Tower
Grontar Nov 28th 2006 5:31PM
I actually have a great time being a Guild Master, however I do have a small Guild to deal with. All my Officers are my firends outside the game (some of which are the reason I started playing in the first place). Some tips that I think will help people:
1. You may be the leader of the guild, but that doesn't mean you have to be in charge of everything the guild does. If we're on a raid, in in an instance or playing on a battlefield, and I'm not as qualified to lead as someone else, I let them take charge.
2. Make sure you have good, quality officers to help you out. As I said, all my officers are my firends. I know I can count on them to do what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, even if I'm not around.
3. Make sure your guild rules make sense and are easy for members to deal with. The easier the rules are to understand and impliment, the better it will be for all concerned.
4. It's a GAME, don't forget that. If running your guild is getting too stressful, look at what's wrong. Playing WoW should be fun, if it gets too much like work, something needs to change.
As I said, I'm only in charge of a small guild, but I think these ideas can apply to however large your guild is. As always, YMMV.
Grontar
Guildmaster
Justice Irregulars
Lightninghoof Server
Jason Nov 28th 2006 11:32PM
When I saw this, my immediate answer to the apparent question at hand, despite its obvious rhetorical nature was 'No you don't.'
Currently, insofar as WoW is concerned, I've never been a GM. I've never been an officer. I've had no desire to do either. This isn't to say I've never in the past, I did in FFXI. I was the Shell Holder for a small, rather unknown, but moderately successful LS made up of a handful of folks that stuck together after the previous SH quit for other concerns, breaking the shell when he did so. It wasn't a bad experience, and most of them can easily be attributed to the fact that the shell had been broken by the former SH. However, the fact that it was more often a job than I'd wanted when I took up the mantle mean very little, ultimately.
So, can being a GM be a rewarding experience? Certainly, but only if you really have a good idea of what you're getting into before you do so. Otherwise, I'd bet you'll find it to be far less exciting than you'd really think, since taking up that mantle of responsiblity adds a lot more work to the game than most would think. IMO, the only time where that doesn't hold true is when the guild is comprised of people who are friends outside of the game, but are either separated geographically, rely on the game as a method of contact in addition to a 'simple' form of entertainment and relaxation. For them, being GM often means that you were the first one to pick up a chater and get it signed. I'd also bet that this makes up the goals and aims of the vast majority of the guilds currently in existence.
So, do you? I'd say that in 99% or more of the cases, the answer is most assuredly, 'no'. However, for those few, brave souls, the answer is a resounding yes. And if you can number yourself among them, then you'll find the experience enjoyable beyond measure and quite rewarding, as you lead a valiant group of companions throughout a great and wonderful world.
Latrevian
Shell Holder
Knights of Palantir
Garuda, FFXI
Kelgas
Veteran of Wraithsteel Legion
Azjol Nerub
Samarola of Scarlet Crusade Nov 29th 2006 12:04AM
I am both a peon in my bosses guild on Dragonblight (for when they need me on runs) and a co-guild leader (main while the other was in Iraq) of over a year and a half on my main server Scarlet Crusade.
My first tip is that you make sure you have a solid set of ideas to run the guild with, make sure you document them publically and don't give in for your friends if they break them. Everyone knowing the same concepts, everyone having to follow those same concepts... Things tend to go smoother. (And strictly enforcing them helps save the problem of being accused of favoritism later on.)
Another thing, don't have rules... Have concepts... Rule are easy to break and easy to manipulate. Concepts are thoughts that can be applied to any situation and help you have a general guideline but at the same time don't have key words that people can say, "Well it says this...."
And last but not least.... I SWEAR by this last one. Even if you aren't a raiding guild, you should always have atleast one interview with anyone who wants to join by someone who knows your guild and how it works before adding someone. Our guild has 256 characters and 120 accounts (and no we dont kick people for inactivity) but it also has kept us from having a massive turn around rate. Over all I think we have maybe had 160 accounts in our guild and many of them left in the first 5 months only maybe 10 in the last year.
If you get to know your members before they join, and make sure your guild is what they want and need from a guild, you save your time and frustration of, "Why did they leave?"
Rassama Nov 29th 2006 8:12AM
As a 'fresh' Guildmaster I can say that I am really enjoying it. It is like being president, change manager and older brother rolled into one.
With two others I run a casual leveling guild on a pve sever. Up till recently over 12 members could recruit and promote in a 100 member guild and this got messy because there was no commitment, no cohesion and not enough vision.
We have now drafted a charter for the members to uphold which contains the rules and explains the rank structure. When first published those that were most upset were those that abused the powers they had and now no longer have. Those that questioned our motives by talking to us all stayed because we could explain why. Other just gquit. Membership is down by a third because of this and the removing of non-played chars and we are hoping some other will quit too.
As there we roughly no rules at all, we built them from the ground on up. I'm glad to say that they conform pretty much to what is said above. Though "If you aren’t having fun, fix it" might get added in the next revision because it covers so much:)
Overal there is a sense that something is getting done and I really liked constructing a set of rules that are both clear and fair (I hope). It has all taken away a lot of playing time but hopefully the guild is now set on course and I can enjoy playing with a more cohesive and structured guild.
Rassama, Guildmaster of Rebirth of the Light on EU-Eonar
raawr Nov 29th 2006 1:01PM
I like that write up.
And Daoc was Community based...WoW is loot driven it seems. For me it is.
I had a core group from RL and FFXI online...we fell apart cause end game turned into Raidcraft. Nobody wanted to help recruit and build up ..they all were coaxed into a raid guild and dissolved a guild I had for one year.
We were about hanging out ...enjoying the content..a mentality we carried over from ffxi..but that died off at lvl 60 and months into 60 ...wow seems to force you to decide "friendships" or "raid guild"....Raid guild wins in the end.
It really broke my heart to see old friends "healers" get harassed so often that eventually the Raid guilds basically stole them from constant badgering and begging to join them...which hurt the family small guild I had.
Now...friendships have all dried up.. I feel the way WoW is in endgame played the big part of destruction.
Its sad when old friends of 1 year in an old game turn there backs on you for promises of Epics and Raids.
In the end Greed wins with the current end game.
I agree WoW guild leading is a differ animal vs FFXI online and DAOC ...way less friendship driven...way more loot driven vs having a great time with close friends. it's pretty sad.
Tallens Nov 30th 2006 6:17AM
"Want to be a guildleader" you ask?...
Short answer
"Yes, I have to be guild lead..."
Long answer,
"No actually I dont _have to_ be one, but I'm to much a control freak, I want to influence the movement around me, set the pace, and dont be controlled (lol, I'm controled by other things now as Guild Leader but it's a different kind of control and are more restrictions than control), I say this in a proud manner, as I have to convince myself often of the good things, when the bad comes throtting... ;) I see my guild as a success and I'm proud of it's accompishments no matter how small or great (I'll try not to sound to arrogant hehe)
I'm Currently the Guild Leader of 2 Guilds on the same EU server, one is Casual-Social, and the other is Raid, we span a totalt of some 300 people, all players from the same country (Denmark).
If I had to sum up all the problems (good or bad), Minor as well as global, I could start a flood of text, and would be done around the release of TBC.
More than er few times I have to remember myself (and my officers) that this we do, is not world changing, it's a game, the only world we change is the little social world we have created within a small sphere inside a game that is not all that into socializing.
WoW is in its essence all about Raiding, Questing and Grinding - we have to add the rest.
If being Guild Leader has ever taught me anything - it's learning the hard way that one cannot please everyone, and that casualties are sometime expected and needed - and that meassuring success is very important.
I Created my Guild on the day of EU WoW Launch and have done alot to maintain a Vision of the future and what is needed done. in this time we have tried to be the 9th largest Horde guild in EU, Largest Guild on our server, (and still maintaining to have only Danes in the guild) the vision have only faulted a few times, but I do what I can to keep people knowing ahead "what I expect and what the guild needs to prosper" it's failed a few times, but luckily the good things have out lived the bad.
so Would I suggest other people to take up such a Task as to be a guild Leader?.. hell NO!, and not with a "single country guild concept" it wins on Social life and "friendship" but it looses a whole lot on progress, since the task of getting more people is tougher than normal (the selection is limited) ...
The rewards are more than often very tough to achive and there are so much that can go wrong, that often it's feels like it's not even remotely worth it... but when you get it right, and you can feel the heart of the guild pound with excitement THEN! you're in the loop, then its all worth it... since wow is concentrating on the Material things, then so are succes messured.
The keys to success was to introduce a few systems to deal with people, Officers and Class Leaders all contributed to the succes and I'm happy that I have so meny competent (yet stressed atm) people to help deal withall the damage dealing with +255K to destroy Guilds atm...
Our Guild like so meny before us, seem to be suffering from EBS (Exspansion Burnout Syndrom), as I see it on our server most of the bigger guilds at suffering so hard that I've seen meny of the Stonecarved-Ironclad-strong-n-Mighty guilds break low to dive directly into the maw of EBS... - We have yet to suffer this, and Maintaining the ranks in these times are by far the most sickly and awe "inspriring" task presentet in a long time... I would not wish my worst enemies to be forces to deal with this.
If all hell broke - would I like to be a peon again, or would I form a new guild?... I'd say, yeah unless I was _really_ discouraged from the Leadership role, I'd do it again - anyday, cus' it gives me the control I need to make sure It goes along as I see right... but then again I'm a egobastard on that one... !! :D hehe...
//Tallens'out
Drunken Kannibals
EU-Neptulon