Breakfast Club: Gold buying is naughty
by David Nelson 
Dec 20th 2006 at 8:09AM
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We have had a lot of Breakfast Topics over the course of the past year. Some subjects are more popular than others. Some topics only appeal to certain classes. Some only to PVP junkies or the Naxx raiding crew. And then some topics completely explode and become the most commented on Breakfast Topic thread of the year. Gold buying and you is the topic that inspired more comments, and more arguments, than any post this year. It started innocently enough. One of my guildies mentioned he had bought gold, was promptly tossed from my guild, and I wrote a post about it. You guys took it from there. There seemed to be three camps of folks in the comment thread...
- People who don't condone gold buying under any circumstance. Shadowbrand hopes that those that buy gold get "ganked until the end of time." Pretty harsh! They blame the overpriced economy on gold farmers, and ultimately on the gold buyers. Gold buying is bad!
- Another, more neutral group, that while they don't buy gold, can see why someone might. Lykaon makes the point that gold farming equals time and time equals money. He thinks gold is easy to get, so he doesn't buy any, but he could see the rationale behind those that do. If you don't have the time to farm it, why not buy it?
- A rather vocal minority who believe that buying gold is just fine, and that everyone else is on the wrong page on this issue. Forsaken points out that he has bought plenty of gold, and having a wife and kids makes it too time consuming to spend hours and hours mindlessly farming.
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Features
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Mike Dec 20th 2006 9:14AM
Ah the old 'Gold Buying' chestnut.
I actually came across a thread on the WoW Suggestion forum about this today (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=57699429&sid=1).
As always you get a very polarised debate, with those who sit on the fence simply staying out of the discussion.
While I can understand the dismay some players feel that people buy gold I can't say I fully understand the vehenement nature of their complaint. The fact is that the majority of those who buy gold are diong so because it is the only way they can keep up with those in WoW who either have 8 hours a day to play or who are very good at farming gold for themselves.
Some players will say "Well perhaps these people shouldn't be playing at all". I think this is a little unfair, the net result is the same it's just someone else putting in the time to farm the gold.
As for gold selling/buying having a significant negative impact on the price of goods in WoW I can't really comment. I don't think there has ever been a serious investigation into whether this is the case or not. Certainly duping or hacking you're way to riches is a poor influence, but simply farming 24-7? I doubt it.
SeiferTim Dec 20th 2006 9:13AM
There are 2 very simple reasons why you shouldn't buy gold:
1) Anytime you cheat in a game - any game - it cheapens the overall experience. I recall the old console days where is was great to plug in a Game Genie, put in the code to make Sonic always be Super, and run through the game on easy mode, but after doing it once - you lose the desire to play anymore.
2) Blizzard has created their own world. They have complete say over what is allowed to go on inside their world, as long as it doesn't break real-world laws. Once you log into WoW, you're playing by their rules, and they have a pretty simple one regarding buying gold: Don't do it. At all.
Shadowbrand Dec 20th 2006 9:16AM
My opionion still stands as well. Although getting gold farmers killed until all their gear is broken is my current favourite pastime.
Apocolipto Dec 20th 2006 9:35AM
Fact is, If you like it or not it happening. Its on every game On every server In every relm. If it can be sold it will be sold. Diablo2 has Items for sale on over 50 differint sites. WOW=ebay, EQ=ebay Darkages=ebay, You can buy anything from Char's to Gold. Complane and get mad if you want but its not going to change unless Blizzard gets pissed off as well..
Lykaon Dec 20th 2006 9:40AM
I'm famous! Once I've made it into a WoW insider post, I've reached the pinnacle. I can shard my epics now.
Rezza Dec 20th 2006 9:40AM
The problem with buying gold and supporting gold farmers is that those who try to farm "honestly" have a harder time. For instance, on our server (Ligntning's Blade) there are several gold farmers who do nothing but farm herbs/minerals all day long. These players become very efficient and normal gathers are out of luck.
cynmoon Dec 20th 2006 9:52AM
I don't know why it's even an issue. It violates TOS and if you get caught, your account could be suspended, or terminated, at which point your purchase would be pointless anyway. Why risk it?
Krahten Dec 20th 2006 9:55AM
The only real reason to buy gold imo is to buy a mount and pay for repair bills. Lvl 60 mounts are far too expensive for a casual player to ever afford. Repair bills can also stack up. If you raid a few times a week any gold you are able to farm usually goes towards repair bills.
Other than those two things I don't think people should be using bought gold to buy things. Decent gear isn't too hard to come by even for casual players. You can raid 2 times a week (about 8-10 hours total) and have really good gear.
Wartoad Dec 20th 2006 9:59AM
Posting in an Epic thread.
And to quote Bob and Doug McKenzie: "Gold buying is for Sucks."
Roccaforte Dec 20th 2006 10:00AM
Hi,
the ones buying gold imo are the raiders. if you are in guild learning naxx und wiping at c'thun like we are at the moment, you know how time consuming this is. not only do you have to raid 3 or 4 nights a week, you also have to farm for countless hours. it is blizzards fault that people buy gold. No one buys gold when they are leveling, why would they? the mount at 40 is easy to get...you hit 60 and do some quests, BAM there's your epic mount.
The high repair costs, reagents, pots, whatever, that is the reason people buy gold. I'm throwing away 10g-15g on candles alone in one evening on my priest. 20-30g and more on repairs. i won't even mention pots.
Now don't tell me: don't raid if you can't afford it!
That is the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
Prauche Dec 20th 2006 9:57AM
I see it's 'phone-it-in' week at WoWInsider. Rehash all old topics. I can't even BELIEVE we're back on this subject AGAIN! /heavysigh
boulderhorn - chromaggus, us Dec 20th 2006 9:58AM
I was sincerely considering buying 100g the other day, just so i would have enough to buy my mount. (i just hit 40 yesterday). I managed to scrape enough together though to buy my mount and have about 15g left over. I did this through smart playing (aka, not buying anything at the AH unless it was absolutely necessary) and smart trading (playing the market on the AH by buying low and selling high). I don't play that much per day though and still manage to have enough gold whenever i NEED something (not just want something). All that being said, i believe that buying gold is something that i may think about doing in the future, but probably won't.
In theory, when farmers farm gold, they are also farming items, blues, purples, plans, etc, and then selling those on the AH to make extra gold to sell through their sites. This influx of additional item to the AH will actually drive down prices (laws of supply vs. demand). Yes, people buy gold and are willing to spend more gold on each individual item, but there are more items on each server to buy, thus driving down prices. To me, and i said, "to me", GOLD = TIME. It's as simple as that. Gold takes time to get and if you don't play that much, then you are more likely to buy gold.
I'd like to address another "problem" that probably raises the cost of items more than gold farming does. Twinking. When someone who has two or three lvl 60 characters and gold comming out of their wazu creates a lvl 39 twink, it really drives the prices up for that lvl gear. I am not willing to spend 60 gold on say the "reforged blade of heros" because i'm going to replace it in a few levels, but some twink is going to buy it for that. And that means that everyone selling that item is going to price it for twinks, and not the general market. In this, I am as guilty of this as the next person. I mean, who wouldn't want to sell their items for as much gold as possible. But twinking does drive up the prices on lower lvl blues and purples like crazy. The only way that i was able to afford my mount was to not buy ANY blues or purples since i started this character. I don't see this trend going away for me until I hit lvl 60 and are able to pvp your way to some good items.
Just my two (maybe three) cents.
Bouldhorn - ARS Brute Squad
Skunky Dec 20th 2006 10:00AM
I agree with Point 1 of #1. It's like playing on easy mode. Anything worth having is worth waiting for....
I do not, however, agree with those that say gold buyers and gold sellers are the source of high prices and inflation in the in-game economy. All the gold that gold sellers have is not being used in the economy unless it sells. Thus, that gold is not in the in-game economy. In that sense, the gold sellers are like a selfish Federal Reserve, releasing gold into the economy as it sells.
Since gold seller money that has not been sold is not in the economy, they are actually lowering prices by reducing the supply of money in the economy. What people take offense to, though, is when a gold seller has a sale or whatnot and a large amount of gold enters the economy at once. This is when you see the large price spikes and such that are so annoying and painful: all of a sudden the supply of gold (and liquid gold too, not gold people are grinding and saving up for epic mounts and whatnot) increases substantially. This is a shock effect, however, and the economy soon adjusts to the new, larger amount of gold in the economy and the slightly higher prices overall since the supply of gold is now larger while the supply of goods remains relatively stable.
Of course, people do not tend to buy gold for making small purchases, so large purchase items--epic mounts and purples mostly--tend to be the big draw for gold buying. Epic mount prices are static (set by Blizzard), of course, so there is no way that gold buying and selling can affect them. Also, epic mount money goes to NPCs, so that gold flows right back out of the in-game economy anyway, eliminating inflationary pressures from that gold having entered the economy.
In terms of purples, they are not any good for leveling since their extraordinary cost is outweighed by the relatively short amount of time before you level out of them. Thus, purples worth purchasing are truly only in demand for end-game and twinking.
End-game purples are only in demand by solo players and such that do not want to group/raid. For PvE soloers, the addition of CC and AD turn-in rewards introduced much better purples than can be bought, but, of course, they require a large time investment. For PvP soloers, the recent availability of PvP rewards, which are also much better than purchased purples, also provides another way that, through time investment, solid rewards can be obtained. Thus, both the turn-in rewards (for PvE soloers) and the revamped PvP reward system (for PvP soloers) reduce the demand for end-game purples, thereby also reducing the demand for gold from gold sellers. Thus, in WoW in its current form, pressure for gold buying to purchase end-game purples is severely diminished, enough that end-game purples can be dismissed as a strong motive for gold buying.
Twinking drives up the prices of sub-60 purples just by its very nature since most of the time there is only one or two purples available for the given PvP bracket. Thus, there is not much that can be done to dissuade gold buying for twinking, but thankfully twinking does not affect end-game, which most players focus on. Twink purples do, however, provide an avenue for sudden gold shocks during periods of high gold buying for twinking.
In sum, saying that gold buying and selling causes inflation and high prices is a bunch of bunk (except for high prices for twink purples, but only twinks care about that). What people are really complaining about are the temporary price shocks from sudden spurts of gold buying, though they may not realize it.
With that being said, though, as I stated above I do not agree with the practice of gold buying. It cheapens the game for yourself. Although, if someone wants to ruin their own playing experience by buying gold, I am not going to stop them. I do, however, tend to look down on those that have admittedly bought gold just as I have looked down on people that use hacks and cheats for console games in the past. Playing a game on easy mode is not really playing the game.
idburns Dec 20th 2006 10:10AM
"People who don't condone gold buying under any circumstance. Shadowbrand hopes that those that buy gold get "ganked until the end of time." Pretty harsh! They blame the overpriced economy on gold farmers, and ultimately on the gold buyers. Gold buying is bad!"
That is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. If anything, gold farmers lower the value of the overall economy because they flood the market with items that normally would be more rare and hard to find.
Vlad Dec 20th 2006 10:15AM
Post 10 is wrong, gold farmers create inflation, the more money is made on a server the more expansive the items get.
And gold farmers create money, thats why on a new server linen cloth sell for less then 10 silver, on a release server it sells for 40 silver. And there is alot more linen cloth available on the release server.
Why because the mass of gold on the release server is alot higher then on a new server. As for the purple items sure there is more but they also cost more because they money the farmer get from the item is sold to another buyer and goes right back in the economy.
Farmers are bad and drive the price higher because they are not effected by the money sink the normal players have : mounts, repairs, potions, tradeskills etc.
Kick Dec 20th 2006 10:17AM
@ #12.
I don't totaly agree. My guild and I are doing BWL in 5hours. 10g on repairs (I'm a hunt, viva FD) but each boss drop about 2-3 gold. finaly raiding doesn't cost me so much. I raid 2-3 times a week and I don't need to farm (my guild is cool :p )
I don't buy gold, but I can see why someone might buy some. Gold = Time
Getting gold farmers killed is my favorite pastime anyway :D
IMHO Dec 20th 2006 11:20AM
I always love these debates. People are so passionate. :)
I really don't buy the statement that gold sellers ruin the economy. Does it affect the economy? Yes. Does it ruin? Not 100%. Most of the expensive BoE epics that I have bought I haven't gotten from the AH. I got them from a guy with a name like EXHLLKJ from the trade channel for 1/4 of the cost. Gold seller? More than likely. Do I care? Not in the least. When you look at the AH these days you are more likely to see people (read non-gold seller types) working the AH and inflating prices so they can buy low and sell high. That practice is what ruins the economy. Is it related to gold selling or buying? Nope but it is the life of an open economy. The gold buyers or honest farmers have no option but to buy the inflated goods. So, let’s give credit where credit is due. If you are “working” the AH, then you are the economies problem.
Another one of my favorite arguments is that when you buy gold you are funding a sweatshop. Let's take a look at that. A poor person gets a chance to play a great game for 8 hours a day for enough hard currency to allow them to eat. Um, er, somehow I don't feel too sorry for that sweatshop. In fact, where do I sign up? :)
Skunky Dec 20th 2006 10:53AM
@#16
Although I have never raided Naxx seriously, I have been in a time or two, and Naxx is a whole 'nother can of worms than BWL. Consumables are required. Repairs can be nightmarish.
That being said, though, I am not convinced by #12 that Naxx raiders are the ones buying all the gold.
Aden Nak Dec 20th 2006 10:42AM
The issue of buying gold has nothing to do with cheating or not cheating (and for the record, it is cheating, but I'll give you a pass on it if you disagree with me there). Buying gold wrecks the economy of the game. It's like crack. The more you buy, the more you need to buy.
Simply put, goldsellers drive up prices. They do this very much on purpose, because it helps them on both ends. They can get more real world money from individual buyers, and they can get more in game money back for the items they sell. Thankfully, WoW isn't quite as infested as some other MMOs have become over time, but it's still a relatively young game. Ask a few FFXI regulars about gilsellers and see if they can stop gnashing their teeth long enough to speak actual words.
It's a deliberate and intentional effort to raise prices on a given server. Once a group of goldsellers control a significant enough amount of in game currency, they can effectively "force" a price to whatever level they want to. If they want the Glowing Brightwood Staff to sell for 800 gold on a given server, they can just buy out anything below that relative price point and resell it. You scoff, but again, the entire in game market in FFXI is utterly controlled by gilsellers through this very practice. What's really sick is that, because of the relatively lower prices, it's just as easy to do this with crafting materials (hopefully the goldselling community in WoW either hasn't noticed or just doesn't find the same returns there because crafting mats aren't nearly as hard to get).
But it's not a matter of it just being a personal choice. Supporting the gold reselling industry hurts the entire game. As long as companies like IGE are around, they will be putting massive amounts of in-game currency into the hands of the players that, categorically, are the most irresponsible with it. For every one person that has a wife and kids and just doesn't have time to farm, there are a hundred snot nosed little shits that are just swiping away on their credit cards so they can "zomgpwnsumjoobz!!!!11".
You know this person. He's the guy in your PUG that's wearing all BoE Epics but sits there spamming one skill over and over. He's the guy that always manages to pull an add. He's the guy that's sitting there sparring with one cheeky player in your BG while your team is failing its objectives. Hell, he's probably Purpling out the character he bought on eBay in the first place.
What makes the MMO system work is that there is an underlying concept of equal footing. If I and Bill Gates are on the same server, we have the same capacity to thrive and fail (unless, of course, I kill Mr. Gates in AV and he seeks revenge by activating the Kill Switch on my copy of Windows, but that's a thought for another post). Gold buying removes that equal footing and makes WoW a game of real-world have and have not, as opposed to in-game have and have not.
And while you could argue that equal footing is just as broken by unequal time investment, the truth is that if you don't have time to invest in the game, you aren't seriously raiding or PvPing anyway. So all you're doing is getting a few lame, second rate toys and driving up the cost of every item in the game for everyone else in the process.
nea Dec 20th 2006 10:55AM
"Anytime you cheat in a game - any game - it cheapens the overall experience."
Gold farming is the most boring experience a game can offer, running around in tyr's hand killing elites for hours is NOT fun. I've bought 1k gold for a mount myself, I agree it's not good thing to do, and I agree it does destroy the economy, but for crying out loud - it saved me the most dull thing WoW has to offer - farming gold. If farming gold was fun (just like leveling up with all those quests and instances to run is fun in WoW unlike many MMOs out there where it's just pure grind) I'd do it.
I've a fulltime job, and it's easier for me to make money for 1k gold IRL then to farm 1k gold in game.