PvP: Tales of an AV AFK'er
by Paul Sherrard 
Dec 27th 2006 at 2:30PM
A post on the General Forum of WoW's official boards has certainly caught people's attention today. Etherboo, on the Bleeding Hollow server, points out exactly why he spends his time *not* playing in AV, instead doing something else while racking up free honor points for cave-dwelling.
Now I've been playing a LOT of AV lately, due to my commitment to checking out the Battlegrounds and earning up some honor gear before the expansion, and I've seen that on the Horde side of the battlelines, there are often 10-15 people just hanging out at the starting point waiting for the game to be lost to the Alliance. As a result, I've found myself pushing to win with only 25-30 teammates against a seemingly fully-committed Alliance team. As could be expected, we get steamrolled.
It's with this ire towards AFK'ers in mind that I clicked on the post, wanting to add my voice to the chorus of ill-wishers and naysayers. What I found inside is what surprised me. I actually agree with Etherboo's comments about the Horde's playstyle lately, if not with his choice of protest.
I understand that a lot of times it feels like the Alliance puts up an unbreakable defense, and yet doesn't go for the win. I understand that the Horde needs a small defense to slow the Alliance offensive, to buy time to take the Stormpike Graveyard. What I don't understand is how sitting in a cave helps the Horde achieve wins. I also don't get the attitude that a little defense makes for a very long game. I've been in games with a 5-10 man Horde defense that have been over with a win in as little as 8 minutes. Playing like that, even without an extra bonus honor battleground holiday weekend, can see you earn 1500+ honor per hour.
To Etherboo, and others like him, I ask that wouldn't it be better to combat the losing attitude of the Horde by taking up arms and trying to beat the alliance? If you AFK, you're taking up a slot for someone who could be taking the fight to the enemy. Get up off the ground and try - the effort has to start somewhere.
To you, our readers, I ask what your opinion is of battleground AFK'ers, and if you are one yourself, do you see this as an easy way to earn honor, or do you understand the point some of us are trying to make in that if you're going to join a battleground, you should at least put some effort into playing?
Filed under: Horde, Analysis / Opinion, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
DÖT Dec 27th 2006 2:41PM
I don't go to the BGs very often but when I do I like to kill things...I don't care about winning or really how much honor i get, I just want to fight other players. I hardly ever die in the BGs...expect when I kill someone enough that they come back with like 5 people to show me what's what. Ihave never really thought about not really fighting in the BGs...I don't care about getting GM weapons or whatever.
I don't play to win; I play to have fun.
Druid dude Dec 27th 2006 4:31PM
That was the biggest load of crap I have seen on the forums in a while, and there have been some pretty big ones lately. This guy is using the fact the Horde doesn't want to to defense to justify doing... nothing? That's thin, very very very thin.
Scariest part is that a ton of people just lapped it up.
If he doesn't like it, why is he there? He could just **not** go to AV. Problem solved. He is there because he is a lazy &@%! that wants free epics, plain and simple.
He can dress it up however he wants, and even convince a lot of people of his oh-so noble intentions. In the end though, he's just another dime-a-dozen loot whore.
Pruflas Dec 27th 2006 3:55PM
I've never understood why the horde loses at AV. I've played allaince, and we've always won. Yet Allaince goes into WSG, and AB we get trashed everytime unless we are set group. The Battle ground layout for AV has 2 bottlenecks. The valley near the Allaince GY, and the close packed building, ramp and entry way to their area. Everytime I run my rogue through AV on offense, i sit there and marvel at how easy it would be to defend it with 1/3rd the raid. While the rest stomp the allaince. Normaly (from my bg's) the Alliance has 10-15 people most on defense.
I see 2 play styles on Ally normaly:
1: they allow the horde to get grab Stonehearth (and if someone takes it back they scream about not wanting a turtle)
2: complete Defense - normaly this is with newer players who panic.
I haven't gotten my mage to AV level yet so I'm not sure what the horde is doing.. just observe they don't do much Defense overal, and their offense comes in with 4-5 people charging SH GY against the 10-15 defenders (of course they get eaten).
this space intentionally left blank Dec 28th 2006 9:59AM
For the most part, the original article is right on. I play alliance battlegrounds and sometimes I think there are only two or three of us playing and the rest are AFK. From my experience Horde win hands down in AB/WG and don't really have much of a chance in AV. As a result, I play more AV so I can get more honor. I enter the que for WG and AB and will play there for a short time until I can get to AV. I absolutely hate playing WG/AB. Its no fun to always lose. So in essence, I can really understand the point of the post.
lulzfg Dec 27th 2006 3:15PM
I AFK in AV because its easy, free honor. I don't care if I'm taking up a spot. I'm not paying $15/mo to make the game more enjoyable for you.
spek Dec 28th 2006 5:48AM
/agree
I'm on alliance side and there's some afk'ers also.
Probably on alliance side it happen more often in pugs inside WSG or AB, but there's always some in AV also, another problem with pugs its HK farmers, they can ruin your efforts also, but they are fighting anyway.
In a premade group you can count on your team and you can do it for WSG and AB, but you can't for AV at least without addons.
I do agree that some players shouldn't ruin the efforts of the other player's and blizzard should do something about it, because they are benefiting the slackers.
It's a social disease called selfish syndrome and it's not just inside wow, you have to learn it somewhere… somehow… and I do believe this is something they have learned from their parents and/or friends.
The question is should we support (like blizzard is doing) or should we fight this syndrome just like you did?
I would say we should fight…
Ps – life has some curious ways, who would say I would be fighting side by side with a horde ;)
mathew Dec 27th 2006 3:15PM
i find i get enough honor win or lose (i play horde) that i don't care either way, however the fact that afkers can rack up the honor really irks me. i don't know why blizzard doesn't impliment some sort of anti-leech strategy. all those people with 0 damage dealt or healed don't deserve 1 honor point.
James Dec 27th 2006 6:47PM
One minute AFK in BG's. If you aren't fighting or moving, you're out. Sure it won't stop the bots, but it will help with the pure AFKers.
Rayze Dec 28th 2006 1:33AM
I thought the free ride AFK honor boat got sunk a few patches ago? I personally care that the asshat hiding in the corner with their Warlord title and fancy PVP gear is taking up a slot for someone who actually wants in to do some good...
To #2 poster, people like you make the game less enjoyable for those of us who are actually into the storyline and history of Warcraft, the aspect of the game, and personal satisfaction of becoming a better player. Besides, you probably don't even pay that $15/mo - mommy or daddy does.
Peace.
neonpenguin Dec 28th 2006 5:41AM
Blizz had a great system, but they nerfed it. The
snowballs were very effective ways to get afk'ers
knocked out of the instance in the caves.
Bring back friendly fire snowballs!
cloud Dec 27th 2006 7:41PM
Paul Sherrard obviously didnt read what Etherboo said at all. If you would have read you would have noticed he said he did fight and try to win, but after many times of losing because no one else will fight he too has given up.
The problem isnt people its game design, currently you get 200 for the npc and caps, if you actually fight youll get what 20 points in hks? and what do you get if you win? 14 more points? woopiee! Man is that incentive to win.
Tokens are worthless at this point, the token to honor ratio is so bad that if you play just one bg for any one HWL item your going to have tokens wasting away in the mail.
There is no reason to win, and no reason to fight. If you have such a problem with av go do wsg/ab, there is plenty of people fighting there, that is of course when your not getting steamrolled by a premade.
P.S. I dont know what fairy tale your living in that horde can win a AV in 8mns in, you would have to exploit van to even come close to that time, in which case [b]is exploiting van any different from exploiting honor by sitting in a cave?[/b]
MindTrigger Dec 27th 2006 4:08PM
Why don't these BG's kick people who are AFK? FPS games have been doing this for ages. Hell some games kick/damage you for simply staying in one place too long. (anti-camp/anti-afk).
Mac Dec 27th 2006 8:27PM
The issue seems to be the frequency at which AV's are lost on the Horde side. When you play 20 AV's and only win 1 or 2, it becomes a frustration. Not just with other players, but the fact that it becomes a waste of time playing AV's. I know a lot of players believe the the issue is more to how AV is setup, and the paths that are available to opposing bases (you might agree or disagree, however, this what I have heard from many players). You could also say that these players are just poor losers, however, you can't argue with the fact that they only win in AV 5% of the time. That is an issue when a mtach last as much as an hour (possibly more). I have heard of a suggestion that says Blizzard should randomly choose base sides of Horde an Alliance in AV, so the battle paths could be more even, although, you'd have to agree to the rest of the statements for this to be valid, but hey, why not mix it up a bit?
chris poloncic Dec 27th 2006 4:19PM
@4
Usually horde just tries to zerg the first bunker, kill the LTs and BAL, then rush SP GY. You can tell on horde in the first minute after the gate opens how the game will turn out. If people go to defend right away we have a chance. 95% of the time nobody bothers though. It's seriously less productive overall to turtle.
entity Dec 27th 2006 4:19PM
Im sick of Afkers and now make a point in each and every AV to report them. I don't want to see anyone get banned. maybe blizzard could just ban them from Av. The point is, if you have no interest in actually playing AV, then you dont deserve the gear and you shouldn't be there. AFKERS with HWl gear are noob posers.
Orcsbane Dec 27th 2006 4:27PM
Well, if you think horde are the only afk'rs your wrong, alliance has its fair share(still doesn't stop us from winning). Alliance is also notorious about reporting them though. Once I had just gotten in an AV run and wanted to go refill my coke and I recieved a phone call. I tapped the keyboard twice to make sure I wouldn't go AFK but was sitting at my cpu talking on the phone. Just as i was finishing my phone call I recieved a whisper from a GM asking me if I was at my keyboard. I responded and said that i was at my cpu. I don't like the idea that I could have gotten banned if that phone call had takin longer.
I do agree with the philosiphy of #2 lulzfg. I am paying to play the game and If you don't like me gaurding the cave when im on the phone, you can kiss it. Im not playing to make everyone happy, only myself and friends I play with. Its a COMPUTER game, not the marine corps.
Off subject a bit and in response to the question of "why does alliance pwn AV, but get pwn'd in WSG and AB." IMHO the alliance are better suited for PVE(pallies, fear ward, etc.) where as the horde are better suited for PVP(shamans, WotF, war stomp, etc.). AV is the only battleground that a good PVE group dominates. AB and WSG are pure PVP battlegrounds, and horde have an edge. I mostly play Alliance, but I have played my fair share of horde as well.
Warforge Dec 27th 2006 4:48PM
I have been doing PvP before Honor. And lots of it.
AV from the start almost daily. And with all the changes in place.
I have the time and experience to speak on this matter.
Horde lose a whole lot. Not because of AFK'ers. The map layout is to blame.
SP graveyard is hard to take and keep. One side you have a Bridge that is horrid bottleneck and the towers shoot the piss out of those half way on it.
The other side is a mountainside right by the defenders spawn point and entrance to AV...they get up top and bombard fresh graveyard rezzers and charge down from the Mine side or the GY side to RECAP...
To take the aid station we have to either heavy zerg it...which is rough with all the NPC's in between...and towers shooting at you.
Alliance do not have that craptastic location of there version of SP...FW Flag is far from our entrance...the spawn for GY is distanced from our end. And can be defended well vs Stormpike craps location.
To take our Aid station (horde) takes two people..The towers dont blast at the second guy trying to cap the aid station.
I myself and another rogue have tried to Cap Aid station durring SP gy neutral cooldown....Soon as he ran off the guards..I tried to cap from the slope side.
STILL the bunkers rangers can shoot me! WTF
If blizzard wants to make this more balanced..>Get rid of that fricking bridge..and MOVE the av entrance for alliance so they dont have a strategic advantage over the SP GY.
Move one tower on horde where the flight master sits so its in range of our Aid station so two stealthers cant just simply Ninja it with ease.
That would help out way more.
emptyvessel Dec 27th 2006 5:10PM
I'd go AFK in AV less if Horde would listen to the hundreds of people yelling at them to take the bloody high road when heading for SP. And yet every time you see a block of idiots fighting on the road. I can't count how many times that me (as a Tauren on a non-epic Kodo, a slow big target) has made it to behind the SP flag unimpeded by taking the bloody high road and then watched as the rest of the raid stays bottled up.
Personally I think people who pigheadedly fight on the low road are worse than AFKers. They're either idiots who can't follow simple concepts or are honour farmers themselves, purposefully staying in the area of most opposition and farming HKs. A couple of people on harrassment duty on D and the rest zerging SP works. Alliance are so used to us being idiots and taking the low road that they just need a few defenders on low road and we spend ages there getting nowhere.
Orcsbane Dec 27th 2006 6:17PM
The best offense is a good defense, and lets face it, Dwarves are much better defenders than Orcs when it comes to war.
Stone Bunkers > wood towers
Besides, we all know that the layout of AB is in favor of the Horde(Farm + LM + BS, swing team for the win), but you don't see any alliance whinning about it like the horde whine about AV.
Horde don't need Aid Station anyway. The only graveyard Horde need to win is SP gy.
Paul Sherrard Dec 27th 2006 6:44PM
@lulzfg: You don't have to make the game more enjoyable for me, but can you honestly say that doing nothing but sitting in the BG is fun for you?
At least Etherboo tried before giving up, I have to give him credit for that. But really, if it's not fun, don't do it. Where are you going to use the PVP reward gear anyway? It's not the best for PVE for a lot of classes, and there'll be much better gear early in the Outlands in a few weeks.
Why farm the honor at all, instead of playing?