Adventures in Beta: Who will be queen of the DPS team?
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Jan 4th 2007 at 6:00PM
Players in the BC beta have hit 70 and are beginning to raid, which means the return of Azeroth's favorite sport: complaining how underpowered your class is in groups! Warriors and rogues started fast out of the gate with some pretty heavy complaints. Warriors state that their rage generation has been nerfed enough that they won't be good DPSers anymore, and since druids and paladins can tank now, why would anyone bring a warrior? Rogues have noticed that they don't do damage as well as equally-geared mages and warlocks at 70, and since a lot of bosses have cleave and AOE attacks, why would anyone bring a rogue? Well, there are enough spare rogues and warriors running around to fill a large pit in Outland, and someone has to take the gear. Mages and warlocks have utility outside damage in raids, but rogues and warriors don't (unless you count suppression rooms, which you shouldn't.)
The casters have fired back, claiming that mages were always intended to be top DPS due to ... the character class descriptions in the guidebook, apparently. They also note that casters have limited mana pools, unlike rogues' constantly regening energy and the warrior's rage bar, and that caster DPS is more dependent on group composition than melee DPS (i.e. shadow priest group damage buffs.)
People from both sides and from healing classes have argued that because there aren't many great melee weapons and armor yet available at 70, melee classes appear underpowered -- but things will even out as better gear becomes available.
Do you think the melee classes have a point? Should melee DPS be higher on average than caster DPS because of the extra healing required by melee? Are rogues and warriors really in trouble? Or are they just whining because they have to work harder to compete on the DPS meters?
(Image from The Last Watch, Turalyon-EU server. DPS meters on Patchwerk in Naxxramas.)
Filed under: Mage, Rogue, Warlock, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, The Burning Crusade
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
bordeman Aug 24th 2008 10:43AM
WTF is with that meter, i have a lev 70 mage and he blows everyone out of the water on damage, on days when i am not trying he hits 1700dps while locks in second with 1200 i mean come on...... i have never seen a warrior or rogue on the top of the meter......
Luclan Jan 4th 2007 8:01PM
Mage is my main, i have a few alts but my main is....... well me main.
Anyways, froms what I have seen *this is how i decided my class* mages were supposed to be able to deal some great dps, that is what they/we do, our casts are a little bit longer so our hits come less frequent then some but they are meant to hit harder. that is how they were designed.
I have always veiwed warriors who complain about dps is just stupid, some warriors are spec'd just to do dps. i don't have beta but i will assume they are doing fine for now, I have always thought of warriors as a big shield in a large raid, There entirly to keep a bosses attention on them and to take damage. Dps is not a neccesity as long as they can hold aggro.
Pvp is another story.
Sylythn Jan 4th 2007 7:01PM
Rogues pwn through their use of abilities - straight damage output will never be high for them...they should really be used to this.
Warriors are heavily gear dependent - get them some raiding gear, and they'll quit complaining.
People who complain about DPS remind me of those that played Quake and they had to get the one-shot weapon, regardless of whether they could aim it well, or if other weapons were better for the area/situation. I remember pwning many a person with a sniper rifle while dual-wielding pistols, simply because they missed that first shot.
The use of an individual in raids should be based on their abilities and skill at using them first, and dps second. DPS should be a secondary goal of all classes - it's primary for far too many people. I think it's some fascination with "high score" or something.
Barod Jan 6th 2007 1:02PM
"The casters have fired back, claiming that mages were always intended to be top DPS due to ... the character class descriptions in the guidebook, apparently."
That really made me laugh for some reason.
Tripp Jan 5th 2007 12:23AM
The same classes are always overpowered, the ones other people are playing. It's always the class your playing that is underpowered. Think People.
Octagon Jan 4th 2007 11:23PM
Yeah but we (warlocks) die so easily... what are they complaining about? Take away their stealth, gouge, and the warrior's intercept and give it to pets, but each to different ones. Give them some crazy DoTs, make them stand still 2-5 seconds while they cast anything else. Then they'll be complaining about dying all the time and having to keep shards in their bags and stopping for mana. You can't have everything.
I think the people that do the most complaining are the people who don't bother to spend time understanding the pros and cons of other classes. They only look at what the other class can do better than them and they complain. "Why can't I do that?" Because enemies can't two-hit you? Because you can turn invisible? Because you can stun an enemy AND inflict damage on them? etc...
GamerJunkie Jan 4th 2007 10:43PM
The problem with Blizz is how do they balance classes so they are viable in PVE and PVP.
I believe Blizz has done enough overly enough to the caster class, giving them more tools and DPS to boast.
This has made the game imbalanced for the melee'ers, since they receive the least buff through this patch and expansion.
For Mr.Mage's comments above.. I see a mage nothing more than water/food vendor, and some counter spelling, never thought of them as pure DPS class. That would be the hunters/Rogues.
Dan Jan 5th 2007 12:34AM
In response to GamerJunkie:
You are blatantly stupid. The purpose for a mage is to be the range dps/heavy nuke class. Don't believe me visit a site that might help www.worldofwarcraft.com and check out character descriptions.
To suggest that Rogues and Hunters are designed to out dps mages shows your lack of knowlege about the game. Futhermore, to lower yourself to the lamest comment of the century by calling mages vendors, proves, even more so, that you lack any knowledge of the game and most likely ebayed your account.
mort Jan 5th 2007 3:22AM
despite the hatred of many comments
rogues can, will, and do always top the damage meters with equal gear, warriors are not the same if in top dps gear. Mages never did compare, although with superior gear they will beat melee (which is clearly the case right now due to lack of new melee itemization). AKA give people more level 70 melee weapons and rogue will still end up on top long term again.
difference? warriors are needed to tank, you typically can't afford many dps warriors, and they hit aggro ceilings. now and always. Rogues can always wear their highest dps gear, and they only hit aggro if they don't know how to place their class. What people forget is rogue has the highest continual damage dps over all classes since there is no aggro ceiling + infinite time of continual dps. There is 0 excuse for a rogue gaining aggro ever in raids. hunters lose dps to mana. warriors die from aggro ceiling. mages run out of mana. shadowpriests (which short term are the highest damage, not mages), hit aggro ceiling.
remember, when dead, your dps is 0.
Thesian Jan 5th 2007 6:25AM
@3- Come on calling us mages vending machines is a bit off. Counterspelling isn't a huge part of being a mage - it has a long cooldown and generates a stupid amount of agro; others do that better. I'm a frost mage - I see us as crowd control / dps both of which we do well. Crowd control we do better than any other class due to our AoE, slows and sheep.
I can see what this Rouge is talking about but he has to remember that for most people the game isn't about raiding. They can't just massively up Rouge DPS as it would make battlegrounds and lower level content stupidly easy for them. They do really decent DPS without having to worry about mana - I can't see raids kicking out rouges any time soon.
Jc Jan 5th 2007 6:28AM
druids have become the new priests;
priests have become the new mages;
mages have become the new NPC.
Kevin Jan 5th 2007 9:45AM
Tripp wrote: "5. The same classes are always overpowered, the ones other people are playing. It's always the class your playing that is underpowered. Think People."
QFT. This is how it was, how it is, and how it will be.
Karnifex Jan 5th 2007 10:11AM
"I see a mage nothing more than water/food vendor"
That's precisely why I now charge 1g per stack of food/water, and 2g per portal (5g if it's from Org to UC, you lazy non-zeping bastards).
Supply and Demand 101. End of game day, I build up anywhere from 20-50g while sitting in front of the bank in Org. Thanks Bliz!
By the way, you can all do yourself a favor by asking for just one stack instead of 3 stacks. We all know the other 2 stacks will poof unused.
Chad Jan 5th 2007 11:08AM
If warriors/rogues want to hit as hard as mages, put them in cloth. Mages have the least survivability of any class, esp. fire mages.
Ado Jan 5th 2007 11:00AM
@3
I've never had a hunter out DPS my mage in any instance I have ever ran. I only perform my vendor trick for friends and guildies, everyone else better ask at least twice and offer money if they even want a response.
Should they bump up DPS on the melee classes? I'm fine with that, just give us clothies more armor.
I guess if you're looking to flame, I've only thought of rogues as lock box openers..
lol.. j/k.. I wouldn't throw out ignorant statements that demean classes I haven't played to 60 yet.
GamerJunkie Jan 5th 2007 1:37PM
To add to my flamebait, mages/warlocks don't need armor because they now have pets, they have CC abilities, they have multiple methods of keeping melee at bay, why do you need armor then?
Same as a MS warrior, tradeoff armor/hp for more DPS.
The issue is many casters can scale their DPS so high with just simple gear stats that allows them to outpace the melee DPS and viability in PVP.
For a rogue/warrior to be successful against clothies in PVP, they need gear and more talents to keep up with the clothies CC abilities, so far Blizz has not address them... Although Cloak of Shadow has so far answered a little.. ;-)
2wishes Jan 5th 2007 1:17PM
Wow gamerJunkie just wow, I swear you are more than jaded and must of had your hiney handed to you more than once by a mage. A mage gets a pet if they spec into it, and I cant even tell you how fast I have died as a firemage to rogue, how bout a setup cheapshot evis then cloak of shadows then what do mages do then but die. I also play a rogue, and what you need is skill to kill clothies, you have stealth use it dont just run in from a mile away and expect not to get pwned.
Thesian Jan 5th 2007 12:42PM
@14 - Erm for a mage the pet only lasts 45 seconds and is a 41 point frost talent. To hadle CC properly (above sheeping) you need to be frost specked. As a frost mage yes I have a pet and amazing CC; but to get this I reduced my DPS quite substantially.
Your right though I don't need armor; I don't even use my frost armor - I prefer the mana regeneration on the mage armor buff. If something is hitting me then I screwed up. When I was specked fire that was more of an issue though - fire is something of a weak tree in my opinion (although I'm sure many people would disagree).
Zeromus Jan 5th 2007 2:08PM
"The issue is many casters can scale their DPS so high with just simple gear stats that allows them to outpace the melee DPS and viability in PVP."
Um, what? Rogues need merely Agility and Warriors need merely Strength. How is that more difficult to attain than spell damage gear, which hardly even existed until a patch last year?
Casters must choose between spell damage, Int and Spirit. Melee classes choose between Agility, Agility and Agility.
You also have yet to distinguish a fundamental difference between the Hunter class and the Mage/Warlock class other than "ZOMG one is dps class YARG!"
Brekke Jan 16th 2007 6:24PM
"Rock is fine, nerf Scissors!!!" -Paper