Forum Post of the Day: Will you miss 40-man raids?
by Elizabeth Harper 
Jan 6th 2007 at 5:06PM
Foton over at AFK Gamer pointed me in the direction of this post, which asks how many people out there are going to miss the 40-man raidstravaganzas that we won't be seeing in the Burning Crusade? I sort of agree with Foton, who says, "I'm not missing them even now as we wait around for the expansion to go live." Of course, not everyone agrees on these things -- for various reasons. Sure, such a large group of players gave encounters a great epic feel, but less-so when it's 20 people paying attention and carrying the weight of 20 people idly tapping keys while watching TV.
See previous forum posts of the day.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Gurei Jan 6th 2007 9:16PM
No lol,40 men are too many,hard to coordinate,brings lag,its harder to get the reward you want vs 39 more and it feels less EPIC if your one of 40 soldiers than say,1 of 25 group.
PM Jan 6th 2007 7:51PM
That's like asking if I'll miss the chance to be crammed in a bus, totally aflame, with 40 screaming babies that spit acid and are hell bent on ripping my nuts off.
...no I won't miss 40 man raids...
Lukkey7 Jan 6th 2007 8:19PM
Yes, because now we'll have to schedule twice as many raids, tied into now if all the healers are saved to the earlier instance, the other raids are screwed. Go go simplification for lazy whiners!
Huey2k2 Jan 6th 2007 9:00PM
I sure will miss 40 man raids. Blizzard is screwing over 40 man guilds in the expansion, for shame.
Jardinity Jan 7th 2007 7:07PM
its a sad moment, after jan 16th many guild will fold from turmoil of reduced numbers. it will make healing classes even more critical. the death of even a few could turn the tide sure it sounds wonderful but how many people really try 5 manning ubrs recently in blues? its the same idea as a 25 man raid
Theadrick Jan 8th 2007 11:04AM
No
Huey2k2 Jan 6th 2007 10:09PM
@ number 5
You'd only be saying that if you were unable to join or put together a proper 40 man guild. The fact is 40 man raids feel far more epic then 20 mans (or 25 come the expansion) and it is NOT hard to co-ordinate 40 people as long as you don't have a bunch of retards in your raid.
Blacksabre Jan 6th 2007 11:07PM
I didn't miss 40 man raids when there WERE 40 man raids. These particular raids were invented to demonstrate a viable, easily understood definition of the word "cluster-$#%@".
A 40 man raid is the designer opposite of good single-player content. Basically it says: Ok, instead of building 40 quests which 40 single players can have fun doing by themselves, lets build ONE HUGE CONFUSING raid instance full of ridiculously overpowered monsters, and let 40 of them screw each other over at ONCE!
Blizzard devs are sadists, and the 40 man raid design is confirming proof of this. The departure of this particular brand of enforced torture is initially reassuring, but then one must consider what they've created, in TBC, to replace it.
Be vewy, vewy afraid.
Black
Evensong Jan 7th 2007 2:03AM
Our guild plans to continue Naxx well into the upper 60s. There are still some very good items that are not replaced until 70 raids. As for MC and BWL, they will be dropped. AQ40 might be ran on a PUG basis, but not scheduled.
Matt Jan 7th 2007 9:35AM
Agreed with 8.
I am the GM of a raiding guild on my server. We aren't big, but we can consistently field 30 people for raiding, which means that 10 or so come from our cross guild alliances.
This change will allow us to experience the full extent of the game's content. So far, the only people that are upset are guilds like DnT and the like, and frankly, the rest of us outnumber them 10 to 1, I'd bet. Good call Blizz.
Also, keeping 40 people together and focused in Molten Bore is terrible.
Matt Jan 7th 2007 2:35AM
Well I started playing about a year ago & joined a guild that my friends started. They're pretty die hard & play all the time. I'm more of a casual player, I play once or twice a week on average. I've got a 60 but I'm barely into decent gear.
Even in a guild of good real live friends, I never get to go on the raids because I can't devote 5 nights a week to WoW. When it comes time to raid there's a line around the corner of more devoted players & sliding me in instead can't really be justified.
My guild is looking at running more raids more often post-BC because it's easier to collect 25 people. More casual players will actually get to run an MC once in a while & raiding won't be as strictly scheduled.
I for one am grateful that Blizzard is moving away from the LCD addicted so easily ruling their virtual world. I pay the same price they do each month, but get less game time out of it & on top of that, get run over in BG's by 12 year olds who couldn't pick a football out of a 4 ball lineup. It's no secret that Blizz has in the past rewarded constant gaming in WoW. The systems in place all pushed for a 24hr character if you wanted to be on top. Obviously more practice & playtime will still result in a tougher character, but now Blizzard isn't punishing the casual player at the same time.
Jason Jan 7th 2007 3:00AM
Personally, I can sum it up in two short words.
Hell No.
reygar Jan 7th 2007 3:38AM
i hardly ever played in raids, 40 people is way too many without voice chat. i personnaly wont miss them.
Brian Jan 7th 2007 4:25AM
I belong to a mega-guild. Most of my guild is wearing tier 2 and tier 3, I have a few pieces of tier 1 and the lowest DKP in the group as I am casual.
I look forward to the 25 man raids where our guild might make more runs that I can hop into. But more importantly, I am praying that the 5-15 man instances are even more of a hit. I love dungeons such as Scholo, DM, UBRS, LBRS, etc... Sure, I am bored to death of them after running them 600,000,000 times.
I would love if Blizzard would choose to make more smaller man instances over large man instances. I prefer tight teamwork. Heck, it would be interesting to see a 2 man instance and how players can handle it.
But then, all this argument has been made time and time again. There are less 40 man raiders than casual players, so it is likely that the majority of people will prefer the smaller man instances.
Look at the new PvP system alone. Finally casual players have a way to experience growth in the way of equipment. The battlegrounds are so full and I bet they are likely to remain that way for a long time now.
Devynista Jan 7th 2007 10:58AM
I certainly won't miss them. I've only done Onyxia, MC, BWL and AQ40, but I much prefer the smaller sized raids like ZG and AQ20. It's nice to feel like you are a contributing individual rather than just another angry villager in the mob.
Thomas Jan 8th 2007 8:00AM
I won't miss them, but that's because our raiding alliance is still planning on running MC, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx during TBC. It'll actually be more fun because while clearing MC for the umpteenth time you can get experience points as well.
Oblitherax Jan 7th 2007 6:33PM
I won't miss the 40 man raiding one bit. The big guilds complain because they've spent a lot of time creating guilds with the intention of raiding with 40 people.
Now, they basically have to say goodbye to 15 people, or try to gain 10 more, and run two raiding schedules... both of which are equally difficult.
So, can I see why they're upset? Hell yes. But the fact of the matter is, we have a few guilds with this problem and then A TON of guilds who can't get 40 people together, period, and I feel worse for them.
Remil Jan 7th 2007 5:00PM
OMG bring on the 20-25 man raids. If Blizzard was smart they would change MC, BWL, AQ and Naxx to 25s also. I cant' wait!
crsh Jan 7th 2007 11:47AM
I won't miss them; while it was great to go up to Loatheb in Naxx, the hypocritical backstabbing and bid rigging my guild has become plagued with due to "omg BC is coming, I need more gear for levelling" has definitely killed it for me.
Given some of those guilds are gonna go through the selection of players who have made the cut for 25-mans, which is bound to induce more drama, I've left it behind. Not worried in the least about raiding right now, the expansion will open up lots of doors as raiding guilds are going to go through some changes, and the number is likely to go up anyway.
Elderhorn Jan 8th 2007 6:05AM
Very nice call blizz, I read in an interview one of the reasons why they wer doing this, as 7. kinda said, 40 man instances are just oversized, hyped up 20 mans anyway, they've just buffed up the mobs so they hit harder and have more hp etc, there's not much more depth and variety to it. Limiting the raid cap to 25 would allow them to do alot mroe interesting things with the raid instances making them challenging on strategic level, instead of just making another simple tank-'n'- slap fight.