How to fix the old instances
by Mike Schramm 
Jan 23rd 2007 at 11:15AM
Before the expansion came out, we wondered and wondered what would happen to the old level 60 instances when the Dark Portal opened. And now that it's here, we know: no one's running them. Oh, there's a few quest groups here and there of people working their way up to 58 (the bare minimum to come through to Outland), but there's almost zero reason to run AQ or ZG 20-mans, considering the loot is just so much better, even just in Hellfire Peninsula. And MC, on my server at least, is a barren wasteland-- why take four hours with 40 people just for a few good pieces when you can get much better loot in 15 minutes of questing in Outland?So what to do? We're sure Blizzard will come up with a way to make these instances relevant again-- in fact, I'd be surprised if, despite what they said earlier, they weren't already working on it now. But just to help them, here's a few suggestions of how to fix the old instances.
-First, and most obvious, is enabling Heroic mode. We already have dungeons in Outland that will be able to be tuned to Heroic mode, which means bosses and mobs are harder, but give much better drops. In the same way, Blizzard is likely going to let us optionally turn up the difficulty in UBRS or Stratholme, offering better loot for a bigger challenge.
-Send us in for quests. This isn't quite the same, but it's another likely option. During the AQ gates quest chain, one section took level 60 players back into Sunken Temple to watch a special cutscene, and the same thing happened in Scarlet Monastery with Naxx. A few Outland quests are already sending players back into Azeroth to finish them, and Blizzard could do the same for the old instances, offering special summons or cutscenes (even involving challenges, like the 45-minute Baron run, or the DM Tribute run) inside the old stomping grounds.
-Tune them up. Instead of leaving the old mode in and offering Heroic mode seperately, Blizzard may just tune the old instances to the new content. What if MC was tuned down to a 25-man instance that offered epics at a 62 level? Or ZG became a 10-man instance that offered epic rewards for level 65s? On the way up to 60, players would be much likely to make a go of either one. Unfortunately, this plan means newer players will never likely see the "old" content in the form it's now-- a large part of the player base has never seen a 40-man Naxx, and if it's tuned to 25 players, all those new players will never experience taking down Kel'Thuzad with a full raid.
No matter which way Blizzard goes about it, it's very unlikely that these instances will serve a real purpose at the current time (of course, people could always just run them for fun-- maybe I'm giving that idea too short shrift). To tell the truth, the gear in the old content is not that bad-- I really like my Earthfury set on my Shammy, and while I've seen a lot of good loot in Outlands, I haven't found an armor piece that makes me break it up yet. But to get that set, I had to run MC again and again and again, and at this point, it doesn't seem that there will be enough people hanging around 60 for long enough to run 40 players at a time week after week through MC.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, The Burning Crusade
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
crsh Jan 23rd 2007 11:25AM
Blizz' motive is to make players buy the expansion, so I doubt they see any value in tuning up the difficulty and loot in old instances.
As it stands right now, and it's been discussed ad nauseam already, the blues you currently get from these instances are worthless compared to the even the simplest green rewards players get in Hellfire Peninsula, and since that's where the game is going to lead them at lv60 anyway (assuming they have the expansion), why bother?
Personally, it kinda saddens me how this content all went down the drain, but I won't miss any of them as we've all run them too many times already. Here's to new content!
Döt Jan 23rd 2007 11:41AM
Don't forget though that millions of players have created new Draenei or Blood Elves and there are new players starting all the time. Blizzard can't just get rid of or tailor the old end game content to just the higher lvl players. My highest character is only lvl 52 but Iwould still like to see MC and Naxx. I could understand making them 20-man instead of 40-man, but 5 or 10-man would cheapen it.
dev Jan 23rd 2007 11:41AM
Yeah its kinda sad that there is so much content that was bascially rendered obsolete with the expansion. There is almost no one interested in running anything pre expansion now. I hope that if blizzard keeps to this that they give people an opportunity to obtain their tier gear (pre expansion) through means other than raiding. Maybe vendor it or grind for turn ins for each piece etc, I know its not as good stats wise as some of the greens in outlands but I bet a ton of players would like to have it. If you think about it they pretty much did the same thing with the new honor system.
Seper Jan 23rd 2007 11:43AM
All the posts and comments on this blog scared me soo muchh. I haven't hit 60 yet and you are all talking about high lvls never running those instances again!!
So i started bugging members and finnaly a high up in the guild. He stated that most of our members have not run alot of the lvl 60 instances. So they are planning on going back with smaller groups to do all those instances and are up to the challenge.
Mabye your groups are done with the old instances but I think its premature to say they are old news and no one will enter them again. I know when I hit 70 i'm going to go in with 4 other 70s and try to complete a 10man instance. If thats to easy we will go in with less. My guild has alot of people mid 60s almost 70 and they all plan on going back to run those instances.
All I ask of you is to stop making these posts about all the old instances not being used. Only the hardcore guilds will be leaving them behind. I'm sure there are alot more casual guilds then hardcore guilds. Some people.. like me.. listen to what you say and take it to heart because you have all been here and done it. So dont scare me like that again.
Dragontamer Jan 23rd 2007 1:01PM
Some other options:
1) Tune them down so that they can be run by a party of 5 level 55 chars. Decrease the minimum item levels appropriately.
2) Leave difficulty the same but make them ten man raids. Decrease the minimum item levels to 55. Give bosses a 5-10% chance of dropping a level 55 epic.
Taylor Jan 23rd 2007 11:46AM
While the old instances were fun, they are still old. And the Bc is, obviously, new. Large portions of players weren't able to experience them but that doesn't mean they won't get to raid anymore. They'll just have to wait until 70. I, personally, never actually ran MC or Onyxia, but I'm not actually interested because of the newer raid content in the Outlands. I'm not saying good riddance because those players were quite good while they lasted, but I think it is time we moved on. I do, however, don't like the fact that they would then be wastes of space but who knows, maybe Blizzard will do something about it after all.
crsh Jan 23rd 2007 11:49AM
Agreed, there's tons of Dranei and Belf players who will get to the levels of old pre-end game dungeons; however, as they're levelling pre-55, Mara and ZF and what not will still see attendance, but Strat/Scholo/UBRS will not. Why? Well, you can't really run Strat with a group of undergeared lv55s for instance (doesn't apply to experienced/well-coordinated players I guess), a PUG of lv55s in Strat or Scholo or UBRS would get destroyed.
You reach level 58.. guess what, you have access to great greens in Outland, so even if you didn't get the expansion, good luck finding a non-BC player to go to Strat with you.
It's sucks, and I can understand non-BC players' frustration, but Blizz' motive as I said is to make you buy the expansion.
Baluki Jan 23rd 2007 12:02PM
I don't think it would be bad if the existing raid dungeons were retuned in Heroic mode for 25-man raids instead of 40. Look at how few people got to do them when they required 40 - I was one of the lucky few who got to see MC, BWL, AQ40 AND Naxx, and I think making them all more accessible would be great (especially for AQ40 and Naxx; they're very cool).
But that's not to say that they can't keep them as difficult. It just means that everyone has to play their part 100% instead of having 15 people slacking off & going AFK.
paul Jan 23rd 2007 11:54AM
personally I enjoy trying to do instances solo and have already visited ST and DM east
Nemdok Jan 25th 2007 3:35PM
I have like 6 quests in Blackrock depths on my 54 and sadly I can never find a group for it, bah guess it's time to grind and do outside quests...
B.S. Jan 23rd 2007 12:01PM
Well I have done all hellfire, zangarmarsh and terrorkar quests, i have also unshrouded the entire outlands...I say the problem lies that when your done questing and reach lv 70 outland will be pretty boring. They should at least have lv 70 quest lines in each part of outlands that involves going back to azeroth and go into all the instances that are tuned up for players who already have the expansion...
For example...There can be an option outside the instance where you can choose from regular instance or extended...The regular instance is up to lv 60...But the extended is for 61-70 and it involves new mobs and bosses that have changed the instance since the portal opened...It will be like and outland invansion of the instances with extended storyline...Also they should also add more class quests...Theres a problem with quests I do that the rewards never benefit my class...I have a warrior and about 70% of quests give you rewards that are mostly cloth and leather. I mean I dont mind doing the quest but have someting there for all classes...Also please we need more 2-handed axes...
Gog Jan 25th 2007 6:48AM
I still get a ton of invites on my lowbies for ZF and Mara. Also, I get a surprising amount of tells from people wanting to quest in Scholo and Strat on my higher levels. I think that the five man instances will always get a lot of foot traffic considering the amount of quests for each.
The 40 man raid instances are dead in the water as far as I can tell, and I couldn't care less. Why would you want to group with 40 people when you can 10 man Karazhan with some close guildies for some awesome loot?
Going back to the old instances can be a blast though. The new specs make them a hell of a lot easier, even without hitting level 70. I three-manned strat with two other Tier 0/ZG geared 60's and we had a damn good time. It's possible that the old 40 man raids could be 20 or even 10-manned.
I do agree with the idea of having the outland quests tie in with the old instances. That would be a lot of fun.
Steel Jan 23rd 2007 12:15PM
My highest level character is 45, and it's been pretty lonely down here in Azeroth while the majority of my guild is surging towards 70 in the Outlands. But they are soooo excited to come back and drag myself and a few other under 60 slackers through MC, AQ, etc., when they're higher levels, better geared, and ready to kick butt against old foes.
Monox Jan 23rd 2007 12:18PM
I say they return it to the old way, when Scholomance and Stratholme were 10 mans, and UBRS was 15... That way players in their 50's will have some really fun instances to run (and get loot that is good for their level) before they have a chance at getting all the Outland loot.
As it is now, it's almost impossible for a 5 man group of level 55 green wearer's to do BRD, much less anything higher.
OutlandishTrendz Jan 23rd 2007 12:39PM
I got my first Atiesh splinter a month before BC, and now I wonder why I even accepted it. The staff is well worth it at 70 but if I will never be able to complete it. Makes me just wanna quit the game now. Yea we've all heard that before, and I have yet to see a staff come close to Atiesh, but now its worthless in the sense no one will ever do Naxx.
Var Isis Jan 23rd 2007 12:37PM
I actually took my guild to LBRS this past week to start the Onyxia Attunment for some. Why? The answer is why not! You get exp, you get some money, the gear won't be that great, but it's fun. Also wouldn't it be cool to run Onyxia at lvl 70 with 13-20 people? IMO if you're not attunded, get it all now before you pass lvl 62 where the exp will be so low it'll be worthless. Run those intances now..you'll have fun..why cause it's fun and you get exp :)
My prediction is, Blizz won't changes these 60 instances (lbrs....to strat to AQ to Naxx) untill this summer. They are waiting for people to buy the expansion first...By this summer alot of the 60 will be 70, and then they'll revamp the old instances like a special update.
Skew Jan 23rd 2007 12:45PM
I think they should turn all loot that drops prior to TBC into BOE drops. Then we'll see people farming those instances with 1-2 man groups at 70. And for those who are still grinding, we'll see the loot hit the market and might even be invited to PUG runs. They should also take away the reset timers on raid instances. I'd run MC 2-3 times for a handful of BOE set pieces to sell!
Coanunn Jan 23rd 2007 12:44PM
Well what to say.. you can tell the difference in experience with the game from the comments. People saying leave those old dumps to die and such are obviously people who have been level 60 for a long time, whether casual or hardcore doesn't matter but they've been there and done that. What about the folks in my guild that have NEVER entered MC, BWL, AQ 20, AQ 40, ZG, NAXX, etc.. If blizzard doesn't do something those players will never get to see some very cool content. The veterans don't want to go back because of how blizzard basically forced them to run these places 1000 times to get their set completed along with the other 39 people who wanted the same gear, but that doesn't mean the new crowd don't want to see things like Vael, the Suppression Room, Saartura, etc.
The problem is not the gear rewards or the levels, it's that getting 40 people together to run some of these places just isn't going to happen anymore, and I don't care what people say, at level 70 you won't be 10 manning some of these places in pug's.
quin Jan 23rd 2007 12:41PM
I'm in a relative new, small guild and we haven't seen some of the larger instances. We haven't even finished the lower, harder instances yet. And you know what? We're already talking about going in these "old" instances right now, while we're on he way to 70. And yes, the gear will be kind of crap probably, but the story is still there. And there are others in the guild who are not yet in the new zones. We've got a bunch of twinks that can go in there, finish quests, get good loot (for their level) and a heap of XP. So, for us the old content is not dead.
Flit Jan 23rd 2007 1:00PM
Hell, even a "60+" button would be nice. Change every mob in RFC to a 60-62 elite mob, with better drops. How hard could that possibly be anyway? I'd run it again.