Warriors QQ, devs say "wait till 70 kthx"
by Eliah Hecht 
Jan 29th 2007 at 5:53PM
It's been hard to miss the epic levels of complaint going on in the Warrior community right now. My own Warrior (pictued) is Fury-ously clawing his way up the 20s, so I have no firsthand opinion on whether Warriors are, in fact, in need of fixing, but most Warriors seem to think they are. Thus, it gets on my nerves when I see things like this, posted by Crezax in the Eu forums:- The devs would agree that the Warrior has some performance issues in PvP. They are keeping this in mind for future adjustments. However, they also want to see more of the warrior population level and gear up to hit end-game, where various weapons and items are going to change the average performance of warriors.
Things like having the PvP trinkets on a 2 minute cooldown rather than previously as a 5 minute cooldown is something they'd like to see more players get their hands on. While a lot of warriors are concerned with early/mid-game leveling and see imbalances there, the warrior's gear dependancy factors into this a fair amount.
As far as I can tell, this can be paraphrased as "Warriors are not balanced for pre-end-game, and we don't care. Level up to 70, get some epic loot, and then we'll talk." First of all, Blizz have said before that the end-game is not all there is, and that leveling is important to them as well as end-game. So why refuse to balance around it, at least a bit? Furthermore, even once folks have got to 70, not everyone is going to want to raid or PvP grind for epics. I understand that Warriors are quite gear-dependent by design, but perhaps that should be toned back a bit?
Anyway, like I said above, my Warrior experience is limited. What do you Warriors think of this statement from the blues? Am I misreading or over-reacting? I suspect this is going to be a hot issue, so please try to keep it civil in the comments.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Leveling
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Kristoffer Belau Jan 29th 2007 6:49PM
Warriors are imbalanced in PvP, not PvE.. I'll still take a warrior tank over a druid tank.. period.
So, hold off pvp till your 70 and have 20k HP and hit for 6k a round...
THEN talk about imbalance.
Halicante Jan 29th 2007 6:36PM
That would involve actually leveling my warrior to 70.
In the current state of things, no ty.
nea Jan 29th 2007 6:21PM
Arms warriors are fine, I've 62 arms warrior (who is now rusting a bit while I sold my soul to female draenei shaman :p) and I'm having a blast with him, no problems leveling (pew pew 3 mobs at once with sweeping strikes) or pvp (yes, frost mages kill me while eating pizza, who cares, they have similar situation with hunters, it's nothing odd to have nemesis class).
The problem I see is that devs have to realize people who spec fury or prot don't really want to be pve raid tools. Fury simply don't have enough to offer in PvP, I can't think of any reason to take a fury warrior into an arena team, too low survivablity, no MS debuff etc. Protection could be fine if it could, you know, protect ppl...
Give some pvp-wise love to fury and prot and the community will be calmed down, sure there will be people crying they suck, but the day noone writes a whine post on wow forums the sky will fall and we will be all killed by pink murlocks.
Seper Jan 29th 2007 7:05PM
My friend is a warrior. He is upgrading his gear almost every lvl or 2. (not every piece just the odd piece here and there).
Hes also got like 10x more armor then I do (druid). Without him and his armor it would be an instant wipe when we tag team instances.
So I say either keep em the same or make em stronger.
Rich Jan 29th 2007 6:48PM
I have a 64 Arms Warrior, and there are a few problems. PvP is just one - I can kill Rogues 90% of the time and Hunters about half the time. Other than that, though, one on one I stand no chance against any class. It is true, though not satisfactory, that we are much more useful in group PvP, where I can Charge an unsuspecting healer and take off half his health in about two seconds. So for something like AV, it's not too bad (though I'm sure I still spend much more time dead than, say, a shadow Priest). But with Arena, we need more one on one viability. We are supposed to have high survivability, but really that's kind of crap. Against Rogues we do, and against other Warriors, and that's it. Our marginally higher HP pool is meaningless.
The other main problem I see is with tanking. If Warriors with Dreadnaught have to tank with a 2h and in DPS gear just to have enough rage to hold aggro, there's a fundamental flaw in the design of the class. A simple change, like calculating defensive rage before mitigation, might fix this...but as of now it's a huge problem.
Chris Jan 29th 2007 7:08PM
i think the devs statement is kind of bittersweet. sure, we'll be usefull again at 70 but that leaves the other part...leveling to 70 with warrior. don't get me wrong i'm not like every other warrior(QQing all day)but it's tougher to grind since the patch. i'm not tripping because i'm fury(lvl 48) so i really have no complaints. but when i hit 70 i will be respeccing for end game. my problem there is what Raid Guild will let me join on as a tank with green gear when druids and pally's can tank better.
PvP is no where on my warriors radar...that's what my mage and hunter are for :) i have faith in blizzard they'll hook us up
C.A. Jan 31st 2007 12:20AM
Yes, anytime a majority of your players realize that your class is underperforming something is wrong. Also, when the devs say that you need to hit the level cap something is wrong. Get level 70 is NOT a fix to imbalance for anyone that is 1-69. It's laziness on the part of Blizzard. I have a level 66 warrior and he can reliably tank 2 mobs in defense stance. We also have more downtime soloing than any other class. Just look at any quest on thottbot for the many "solo'ed with a mage, hunter, lock, etc." comments that have to do with elite mobs.
If gear dependancy is the problem, fine, just give us some freaking quest rewards. 9 out of 10 plate item quest rewards in outland are for pallys, I am not exaggerating either. And if they aren't going to switch/add rewards, make class quests at 5 level intervals or something. Gear is our supposed imbalance problem but they give no solution other than level up to 70. L A M E....
Pritchard Jan 29th 2007 7:12PM
@1
Frost mages have a nemesis class in hunters? Are you crazy? I have never, EVER had a problem with hunters. The only time a frost mage (with any sense) has a problem with a hunter is when they ignore the hunter or try to fight them from range. Even with half life they are easily taken down because, well, they can't melee worth crap.
I see mages on the Mage Forum crying and crying about hunters, which only reinforces my belief that a majority of mages don't know what they're doing.
About poor warriors. Gimped in PvP is being kind. It got so bad in AV before the expansion release I purposely ignored warriors because I felt bad for them. I was always impressed by the Grand Marshal or High Warlord warriros; the amount of time they must have spent at the graveyard...
And this Spell Reflect that warriors get is a joke. Was fighting a warrior at Halaa and was already below half-life from the bombings. My fireblast came back to me (thankfully no crit) so I knew the warrior had popped Spell Reflect. So I sheeped him, or rather myself. Before he knew what to do I had regenerated almost all my health. Trinketed out and wasted him. LOL. Thanks Blizz!
Kerni Jan 29th 2007 10:53PM
Warriors have always whined. 90% of what the whining was about has been ignored or replied to by Tseric in his usual pompous attitude.
This is something I got used to long ago.
http://pallywithash.wordpress.com
Jason Jan 29th 2007 7:23PM
You're overreacting and misreading. Right now, all the warriors who are QQing are doing so because they're still leveling up. Ask any warrior how overpowered they were from 1-60, and you'll hear plenty of QQ. Even at 60, it didn't start showing up until they were sporting BWL gear or HWL/GM pvp sets.
The problem with warriors is the way they scale; you can't balance them for leveling, because then they're overpowered at the level cap in epics. So what do you do? You do exactly what blizzard did; Balance them at the level cap, in the gear that they'll have at that point. It makes them slightly harder to level, but that's how it has to be. You can either deal with it, or stop QQing and roll a new class.
Vision33r Jan 29th 2007 7:25PM
The Devs are talking trash. The only glimmering of hope they gave us is try out warriors @ 70. Just more salt to our wounds.
Everytime we complain, they duck for cover and say wait for 2.0 and then now they say wait for 70.
The next thing they will say will be wait for the next expansion, wait for lvl 100!
Moorkin Jan 29th 2007 8:52PM
I'm a level 61 protection warrior in the outland. I don't PvP because I simply don't want to. To me, it is a waste of time. If my patience is worn too thin with what I'm doing in HFP, then I play an alt. This is rare. I like the fact that I can take on three level 61s and survive. Sure, other classes can do this, but I'm not another class. I like the idea of having a hugely spiked shield and bashing in skulls. I have to laugh whenever there are new nerfs to warriors, because for 90% of us who play warriors, it's going to be mean a lot of pissing and moaning on the boards while I'm out grinding Mag'har faction and mining Fel Iron.
Playing any class in WoW boils down to this: adapt, adjust, tolerate, or STFU and go roll a Second Life toon, you crybaby.
Trudie Jan 29th 2007 9:18PM
You know, I absolutely despise this intolerant culture of WoW players who use the term "QQ" in the first place.
Sure, there are people complain too much about stupid things, but there are others with legitimate concerns who voice intelligent opinions. But no. Everyone who complains about anything in WoW is lumped into the pathetic "QQ group" and completely passed off as a crybaby.
If someone says that their beloved character that they've devoted many months (or even years) developing is suddenly much harder to manage and less fun to play, why not sympathize with that person instead of calling him or her a crybaby? Don't just say "Oh shut up and roll an alt." That's rude and unfair.
So there are a handful of people who say warriors are fine, but there are many others who completely disagree and say their class is broken, hard to solo with, and much less fun to play with. Why not respectfully honor both opinions instead of flaming one another and calling each other whiners and crybabies.
Oh. Wait. I suppose I'm barking up the wrong tree...
I bet you'll call me a crybaby for complaining about people who call other people crybabies.
Cormack Jan 29th 2007 10:19PM
The way that things break down is that rage is a fundamentally broken mechanic in a game that has expansion packs.
Warriors scale well with gear. This means that we'll be underpowered before the end game (be that MC, BWL, Naxx, whatever.) Once we get to the end game we'll either be equal or slightly more powerful than other classes that have been using whipping boys.
The problem is that WoW has expanded its content with dramatically more powerful items several times. This means that since warriors scale better with gear comparatively, with new gear we would be overpowered. The devs have new choices: leave balance the way it is, and allow the "hardcore" warriors to be overpowered, or balance the class around those players. The devs chose the second case, which means that until there is a structural change to the way the warrior class works, high end warriors will be perfectly fine, the rest of us will be underpowered.
Sixx Jan 30th 2007 3:04PM
Sheep...Blast....Freeze.....Blast Blast Blast......freeze....Blast Blast GG dead warrior
Comic Jan 29th 2007 11:34PM
The only concern I have is that when my warrior hits lvl 70, he will atleast hold up against any class in PVP and he will hold agro as well if not better then pre-BC. If both of these are true then please don't mess with my class anymore.
Im not saying make warriors beable to kill everyclass, im saying let me have the ability to kill every class.
Kazia Jan 29th 2007 11:56PM
There is good and bad. In general I have found my level 70 warrior wearing end game blues to be about on par with how they were at level 60 in end game blues. In other words, solo pvp I generally am at a disadvantage and in PvE I make a good meat shield, but suffer rage and therefore threat generation problems.
At this point if I consider rage normalisation negating weapon upgrades and the fact that incoming rage will decrease as my mitigation improves through better gear, I cannot see my job as MT getting any easier.
While I can see alot of potential with PvP, I too don't like the fact that we have no trainable skills or talents to break snares/cc or stuns and the only way in combat to regain melee range is on a 30 second timer. Coupled with most other classes having multiple ways to snare/cc or return to range and regardless of how good our gear gets, unless we burst down a player in the opening salvo (which the developers were trying to remove from happening with both increased stamina and resilence in play), we will generally just be a roadbump for most players/teams.
That being said, I think alot of warriors are crying, mostly because they are stuck in their old 60 mentality which was burst is best. When your facing a 70 cloth wearer with 10k hp then its about survival as much as dps. I leveled to 70 using a 33/5/22 build as I also am the guilds MT. I have found this build to be awesome for both pve and pvp. My 93dps Sonic Spear still hits hard, and second wind is fantastic for giving me rage and 2k life back, but when I can also throw out a 5 second stun in concussive blow and suddenly add a few thousand HP through last stand and commanding shout, I start to surprise alot of people.
Yes we need some tweaks, and I for one hope they are coming, but the game has changed - change with it. Don't just play a cetain build because thats the way you always used to or because everyone thinks its the best.
(ps. If you ever spell reflect a poly back to a almost dead mage then you should really turn on cast bars!)
ZheKing Jan 30th 2007 12:50AM
I did not get anything of what u guys sais, U ubviusly play much more then me, I have a LVL 39 Warrior, and It took me forever to get there, I play about 6h a week ( yes I have a life outside WOW) anyways, my problem is the fact that my warrior is so slow, as soon as I am against one of these long range users who can slow my movements i am dead. How can I hit someone who is hitting me with slowing arrow and shoot from far while his pet is attacking and i am making it toward him at slow motion, If I could, I would change my class, but it would be a hell lots of trouble to lvl, so if u got any triks, just share them, specially in PVP.
Elderhorn Jan 30th 2007 4:44AM
As a feal druid, I've noticed that I get asked to tank alot more often even if we have 2 warriors in the group, not that I don't mind tanking, but I have defintely noticed a decline in SOME warriors' performance, but some warriors haven't noticed any nerf at all and in fact like the changes.
The rage "nerf" was apparently also applied to druids but I've noticed myself generating more rage than ever, I can spam swipe (attacks 3 targets 15 rage no CD) and keep myself at virtually full rage.
It is true that warriors have changed, but it just means that you have to adapt (or play a druid :P).
green Jan 30th 2007 5:42AM
I have a 63 Nelf warrior and I just found it more and more boring to level him and ever since I started levelling in outland I kept wishing I was there with my hunter or mage alt as it all kinda felt slower and harder than usual (not everyone has tier gear).
So now I've given up on the warrior and I am levelling up my hunter (I'll be back in outland within a week) and playing around with all classes when I'm bored until I got one that I am truly happy with, no point getting frustrated with a toon, I think just have fun another way and play with another class (and get some due revenge on clothies).