"A challenge based on an influenced probability reliant on time investment"
by Mike Schramm 
Jan 30th 2007 at 1:50PM
What is that crazy assortment of buzzwords in the title of this post, you ask? You already know-- you probably spent a lot of time playing it this weekend. That, says Drysc, is what WoW is.When Nickleplate of Bloodscalp posted the perennial question of why we're still stuck killing n boars for x eyes, Drysc responds with a pretty insightful (some might say cynical) comment: we're doing it to waste time. Why doesn't every vulture you kill drop a tailfeather to collect? Because quests are designed to take time to do them, and to reward you when you invest that time.
Now, I hope Drysc doesn't really think that about this game-- saying quests are designed to steal free time is like saying Jack Bauer defeats terrorists because the script says so. Jack Bauer defeats terrorists because he's Jack Bauer, and we're completing quests because in WoW, we're heroes and that's what heroes do. We aren't really "waiting for those eyes to drop"-- we're supposed to be collecting them to save a village or earn a new faction's respect so we can better save the world.
But leave it to Drysc to rain on the parade. Most players, I think, want and get more out of WoW than just a simple timesink-- they want to have fun with (or play against) friends, experience building a character in a story, or simply develop a strategy (... on how better to obtain boar eyes, maybe, but a strategy nonetheless). I ask for more than "a challenge based on an influenced probability reliant on time investment" from WoW, and most of the time, I get it. Do you ask for more? And do you get it?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Quests, Leveling
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Seltor Jan 30th 2007 2:06PM
He´s right though, that´s what quests are.
They´re there so the game isn´t a mindless grind.
You don´t just grind the same mob in the same area for hours until you can move on to another area, you complete quests!
To me that was the big difference from other MMORPGs that made me love WoW.
Pruflas Jan 30th 2007 2:13PM
why play the game if it doesn't take time?
RogueJedi86 Jan 30th 2007 2:15PM
I'll admit that I can understand the relatively low drop rates. Killing 5 monkeys for an ear does end up giving you 5x the XP you'd get from only killing one monkey per ear. Of course it also doesn't make sense from a roleplaying perspective, since all monkeys have ears. I can understand this for humanoids at least(not all BurgerKings will have cheeseburgers with them), but often times it doesn't make sense for creatures. But I do understand that it ends up giving me more XP in the long run. I guess that's why I prefer to the quests where you're told just to kill X amount of creatures/humanoids, no looting required.
But yeah, it'd be nice if they could give some in-universe reason for why not all monkeys have ears. They justify everything else(Elves with the Horde, Draenei with the Alliance), so it seems like it wouldn't be hard, especially considering how deep the Lore of Warcraft goes.
Eboulli Jan 30th 2007 2:27PM
Not all monkeys will have ears because, in the process of killing said monkeys, many ears are totally destroyed :p
Wreckless Jan 30th 2007 2:49PM
Thats right, quest givers are picky you can't them a bunch of monkey ears that look like have been kicked around and chewed on. They want high quality monkey ears and will take nothing less if you want a reward.
Grundi Jan 30th 2007 2:59PM
I was ok w/ that explanation b/f BC...BUT now there's a quest in Outlands to gather Orc blood, but the drop rate is pretty low. How many orcs are we fighting w/o blood?!
Again, i don't mind inconsistent drops. Just make the story behind it a little more believable...
Sylythn Jan 30th 2007 3:12PM
@6 - Vampires...it's the only logical explanation...the vampires got there before you did.
Zuuler Jan 30th 2007 3:17PM
Maybe instead of making quests to kill mob x for body part/fluid y with mobs who for some reason are able to live without said organ/fluid/skin/etc. they increase the ammount of what you need to collect. The naga claws quest in Zangarmarsh is a perfect example. Though it does seem possible a naga could live without its claws, you can see on the model that every naga does indeed have claws. And every naga does indeed drop said claws. But the quest requires 30 claws. So 30 naga killed, 30 claws collected.
A similar quest to collect the orc blood in Hellfire Peninsula is the opposite. I think the objective was to collect 12 samples (i may be wrong on the number), but you still had to kill around 30 or 40 orcs to get all the samples. I would see it as much less aggravating if every mob dropped a quest item that it could not live without.
If all you want is a time sink, you don't need a quest to go and just kill mobs.
De-nerf locks.
Chris M Jan 30th 2007 3:19PM
To put it in the words of one of the posters on the WOW forums-
"OMG where's the reality in my fantasy game?"
I can completely relate. I killed about 15 bears that didn't have hearts yesterday- but instead of killing just 5, I killed 15. That's 3x more experience. Granted, I don't like the fact that I have to console myself with 'the NEXT one just MIGHT have a heart', but so much as all bears could have hearts in decent condition.
To level it out- the questgivers could give more experience upon turning in a quest. Maybe not 3x more XP, but enough so you could comfortably move from one to the next.
Again, when questing is becoming like grinding- something's a bit wrong in my book.
Chris
Feeple Jan 30th 2007 3:21PM
I can't say he's wrong. Point of fact, one of the reasons I've found WoW so popular is that it has an easy interface combined with the central tenet of most RPG's: keep at it long enough, and you'll win. A grind of some sort plauges us even way back when some of our number would blow into a gray cartridge, somehow imbuing our desires in our breath, and sliding into our then time-altar, the NES. Heck, the grind has been around since before that, even. My first encounter was just with Dragon Warrior, is all I'm saying.
The only way I justify WoW now a days is to think of it as AIM with a included game. Many of my friends have moved across the country, and WoW's just the common thread to keep us all communicating.
Zuuler Jan 30th 2007 3:21PM
I can see some situations where a low drop rate is justified though. There was a quest in Znagarmarsh to collect delicate insect wings. Those could obviously be easily destroyed in a battle.
Nerf rogues.
Kahja Jan 30th 2007 3:22PM
I went to WoW looking for something to do in my spare time. As such I get exactly what I wanted out of it... I play a game in my spare time... If I wanted a different reward from said game I would find a different game.
Quests exist to pass the time more effectively. When you're killing 100 boars and not being rewarded with a "kill # boar quest or a collect # boar livers then have you achieved more or less? We both killed 100 boars. You got boar loot and boar XP... I got boar loot/xp and two quest rewards/xp/rep.
We took the same amount of time but I got more out of it.
You ask for something other than "A challenge based on an influenced probability reliant on time investment". What you ask for is to be the highest level, in the best gear without having to invest the key component of time.
Seamus Feb 3rd 2007 6:29PM
Naxx is just a level 60+ version of the burly trogg or kobold vermin you killed at level 1, he just has more hit points and a few more abilities...nothing has really changed...he just drops better loot which is what the game is all about unfortunately.
LAURA Jan 31st 2007 10:44AM
While there is a certain relaxing aspect to grind/collect/redeem quests, I have to admit my favorites are always the ones where a story seems to be continued. I love, for example, in BC, the questline to learn the furbolgs language, where you get to fly, turn into a panther and swim fast as you follow a spirit guide around. Or, the lengthy Stalvan series. Or, any quest where turning in your found/ground objects starts a mini-play - Sylvanus and her Banshees singing sad songs comes to mind. When I am sometimes standing in line to turn in the same tiger claws, the same murlock eyes, the same whatchamacallits that everyone else is also turning in, I want something back that rewards me by suggesting I made a difference in the game world, even for a moment.
JackBrown Jan 30th 2007 4:52PM
QQ
Flit Jan 30th 2007 4:22PM
The only quests i have a real problem with are the "one perfect of item x", Only because I play with my wife usually, and it FEELS like it takes longer to get that 1/100 than gathering 100/100 of item x, so someone gets bored/frustrated in looking for that one item (it's hard to see the goal when you aren't getting anything tangible). Those quests only get completed (for me) when i'm soloing.
Silverblood Jan 31st 2007 10:15AM
Quit Whinning!!!!
If it were rollover easy you wouldn't wanna play. When you fight a mob you not always going to accurately place your shots. So when you're fighting with a flailing beast you are bound to ruin the part you are going for. If its to tough for you play your old nintendo maybe that would be more your speed.
Preist Rule!!!!
James Jan 30th 2007 4:41PM
Oh man, the collect 15 mushrooms from the Ogres in Zangarmarsh quest SUCKED.
We had killed for 45 minutes straight and I had 3 mushrooms.
THREE!!!
I don't mind killing stuff, but I would rather shade it towards kill 50 of these and everyone drops, than kill 5 of these, and 1 of every 10 drops.
You don't have to completely move it one way or another, but I'm telling you, I drop any quest where I don't get a quest item in more than 10 minutes of killing.
It took some of our highest DPS mages about 3-5 hours to kill enough ogres to get all of their mushrooms, that's ridiculous.
aratto Jan 30th 2007 4:55PM
You guys might want to check out the relation between a system of randomly generated rewards and addiction. It's something Blizzard certainly understands.
slybri Jan 30th 2007 5:35PM
It seems to me like Blizz made the questing and XP gain a lot easier in the expansion. I heard it would take as long to get from 60-70 as it did to get from 1-60, but I'm already 67 and I've only played for a week. It took me almost a month to get from 50-60.
It's all these multi-quests. There are many areas that you can be doing 3 or 4 quests at the same time. Like killing X amount of ogres who drop the X amount of items you need and are camped near the X amount of items you need to pick up off the ground. That's 3 quests in one, and you get XP from grinding. All the while the greens are dropping like candy from a pinata.
Another reason it's going faster is the lack of travel time. You can get from Shat to anywhere pretty fast and the Epic mount cuts down turnaround time. And there are more cities and quest givers in each area than the old zones had. Remember the time spent walking back to Nijel's Point? Booty Bay?
I personlly think they've gone too far in making WOW more casual friendly. Like my friend said the other night, "Blizz nerfed WOW."