The raiding grind begins again ...
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Feb 1st 2007 at 12:33PM
... as Death and Taxes clears Karazhan, and a couple of other guilds take some shots at the first 25-man raid boss, Gruul. Death and Taxes also killed the new Kazzak, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what he looks like from the screenshot.
I'm not even quite sure what else is in the game right now, raid-wise -- Lady Vashj, Kael'Thas, and Magtheridon were supposed to ship with the expansion, but is it even possible to get to them right now? And since those are mostly one-shot encounters, how long will it be before the top-tier guids begin clamoring for the head of Illidan Stormrage? (Black Temple is still under development.)
This also makes me wonder what instances will be patched in later. Blizzard has said they're trying to move away from raiding as the only means of gear progression, but if guilds blow through BC raids like they were nothing, they may find themselves once again forced to invest a lot of their resources in keeping the top raiders happy.
The only way to really slow guild progression is with bugged/unbeatable encounters (like C'thun at the beginning), gear checks (like Patchwerk) and long raid attunements (like Mount Hyjal.) No one likes bugged encounters, and you can only stretch raid attunements out for so long, so it seems that the only real option is to make a lot of encounters gear checks. But gear checks meant to slow down quick-progressing raiders can be fatal for less hardcore guilds -- how many guilds died on Razorgore and Vael or the Twin Emps?
I'm not hating on raiders, since I am one myself (although significantly more casual than hardcore), but how will Blizzard manage to balance the needs of large raid guilds, small guilds, PVPers, and soloers? Will raid guilds just have to get used to slower progression and less content, or will we be seeing Naxxramas v. 2.0 before we see more 10-man or 5-man instances?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding, The Burning Crusade
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Melf Feb 1st 2007 2:21PM
Well, not sure if he's in there, but Magtheridon's lair is open and the trash mobs hit like Mac trucks. Several 3 pulls and then a 5 pull before Mags himself.
Plus, anyone who's rune Blood Furnace to the end can see him through the grate!
Chris Gardner Feb 1st 2007 1:09PM
Blizzard needs to stop playing this game of trying to satiate the hardcore raiders. Kaplan made a comment one time that keeping ahead of them in producing content is draining.
What's the point? Is he afraid he's going to lose
Ekimus Feb 1st 2007 1:27PM
A few things to keep in mind, most of the new content was already tested in beta, much like ZG. Zul'Gurub was in the PTR, so that when it hit live it was ready to go.
I wouldn't be surprised if Black Temple took long to clear, if it doesn't hit the PTR.
With that being said, I agree with post #1, end-game content design must be draining. I like the moves they have made to make end-gaming more accessible. However, this may make the new end-game stuff too easy for seasoned 40-man raiders.
kerni Feb 1st 2007 1:38PM
It really comes down to this...
...most players in WoW user base are in fact "casual". You then have the semi-hardcore raiders, the pvpers and the hard core raiders who spent every waking moment playing the game. These people (the hardcore gamers) seemingly can afford to not have a job, personal life or schooling. If they blow through the content, so be it.
I honestly don't give a rat's tail about the hardcore raiders. They make up such a small % of the WoW player base that they shouldn't get any sort of special attention/treatment. If I were Blizzard, I'd focus on catering to the masses. The more people you make happy, the more money you'll make.
That's really it IMO.
http://pallywithash.wordpress.com
Apocolipto Feb 1st 2007 1:41PM
You have to keep in mind that blizzard is a large company that thrives on the people that buy its games and keep playing. Just think of how much Money$$$ and Time it takes to develope NEW instances, and bosses, and all that other junk. You might say Blizzard NEEDS to keep up with the players but, Some of the people that play WOW are people with jobs that can do these raids time and time again without cause to there life or funds. Blizzard doesint make money off these Raids.. They dont make anything from creating anything new unless its a public release that gets more people into the game buying there product.
Once again time is money. Content + time = Money
CTDeLude Feb 1st 2007 3:00PM
Personally Blizz really does need to say to these hardcore people, "look you can't breeze through a great relationship and just get to the marriage or (if you're like that) sex if you want something meaningful out of it. Take the game slower and everything becomes more sweet and long term productive."
That being said Blizz needs to expand beyond the mindset that end-game raids are all that there is to the end game. Develop other things (and probably things not yet thought up for MMO's) and you won't have people racing through end game raid content.
Melador Feb 1st 2007 3:19PM
Actually the first 25-man raidboss is Maulgar, who's in Gruul's Lair. A decent number of guilds have downed him now, though there isn't much public info on him.
It's a really fun, hectic fight, especially for a 25-man raidgroup.
chaz Feb 1st 2007 2:24PM
@3 & @4:
You guys nailed it. Blizz isn't turning profits on Death and Taxes-type guilds. They make their money on the 7.5 million other people who will never set eyes on Kazzak.
I don't raid. I've been on raids, and its too much for me - and you feel like a cog in a big machine doing the same thing over and over. I like the 5 mans, everyone gets to be a little more important.
So when Blizz says, "we're gonna try to get guys like you better gear without the major logistical problems and personality drama of raids". I say, "you have my credit card, one more month please! :)"
Zuuler Feb 1st 2007 2:39PM
I personally don't have the time to raid. I am a casual player. I'd like to raid and get good gear, but thats just not possible for me. I'd like to see more content for casual players as well. At the same time, if i ever have time to raid, I'd like to do it. So I'd like to see new raid content so that guilds keep raiding in hopes that I might join in. Maybe they should just create a zone that is full of nothing but raid lvl bosses. No adds, no non elites, nothing but Kazzaks and Rags and Ony's. Then make it so once you enter, you can't leave by any other way than the entrance portal, so you have to fight your way back out
Heyasuki Feb 1st 2007 3:18PM
My guild has a bunch either just hit 70 or about to but were in no rush to do end game stuff yet. We have a lot of 5 man's to do befoer we even hit those. I think some of the bigger guilds ended up skipping a lot of content and just jump right to thr 25 mans.
Smithra Feb 1st 2007 3:29PM
CTDeLude,
while your analogy is cute and shows you to be a sensitive man or (statistically unlikely) woman who is not just interested in the bootay, your relationship with an MMO is a better match to your relationship with an all-you-can-eat buffet than with a spouse or lover. There's not a relationship to cultivate and grow. They provide a wealth of content, which you pay for, and pretty much just say "have at it." If some people want to skip straight to dessert, well that's their call. Me, I'm a big fan of mac & cheese that's been under heatlamps forever and I'll get to dessert when I get to dessert. I'm not one to whine when they beef up the dessert bar, so long as the rest of the buffet doesn't suffer.
Like any other Action RPG, the main goal of your average player is to get as powerful as you can. Whether that means full heart containers and a master sword or lvl 70 and Full T5. If you add content with no tangible reward, 80% of your player base will skip it. If you add content with a reward, it'll get lumped into the stuff to be breezed through on the way to raiding or inbetween raids.
If you're not interested in raiding, there're plenty of other options available to you. Faction rep, non-raid quests, PvP, professions, alts. Most of these things don't give you equipment on-par with Raiding, but that's how these games work. The people who have the time/motivation to raid every night for 5 or 6 hours will always outgear the rest of us. They've earned it. I'm happy with the content I have access to. If they're happy with the content they have access to, then everybody wins. If anyone isn't happy with what they can get for what they're putting in, then they can contact me for an easy way to save $14/month on videogames.
Afroloop Feb 1st 2007 3:46PM
I'm not as worried about big raids as I am about the next expansion. I'd like to see them come out with expansions faster. I like to solo play or do 5-mans with my small but friendly guild. I never have anything but blues (well, one or two purples) on for gear but I'm fine with that.
Mottster Feb 1st 2007 3:44PM
@Smithra - You've made me hungry now!
Violence Feb 1st 2007 4:03PM
** Why They Keep Trying to Satisfy the Hardcore Raiders **
This is often overlooked when anguished hand-wringing occurs over why Blizzard seems to spend so much time catering to a very very small group of players (hardcore engame raiders like D&T): these people drive the game. Other players look up to these players and think that someday they might have gear that wikkid cool too. When the small elite of a game (any game) begin to leave, it usually starts a chain reaction which is essentially the beginning of the end of the game. It has been demonstrated by 'churn theorists' (people who study why other people abandon a product or service) that if you keep the cool elites interested, then the unwashed masses will stay interested as well. As long as there are new goals for the elite end-gamers to pursue, they will stay in the game, and everyone else will stay too.
That is why I am actually delighted in TBC. I had expected that it would all be stuff for end-gamers, with two new races and 20 levels of content thrown in for everyone else. In fact there is all sorts of great content for all types of players. Good on you Blizz! But, expect future patches to focus mostly on keeping the hardcore elites interested.
Melf Feb 1st 2007 8:14PM
#14: why would you say that the future expansions would "focus mostly on keeping the hardcore elites interested" after mentioning how great TBC is at sharing the wealth of content?
I'm not really sure what people consider "hardcore". Definitely DnT and Curse and Nihilum and others like them are considered hardcore, but what about those of us who raid for two-three nights a week but are midway through Naxx and have a handful of 70's already? Are we hardcore?
I think that this expansion is MOSTLY catering to the casual end-gamer, in that it offers soloable quests and a good collection of 5-man instances. Granted, these aren't easy instances for the inexperienced or random PUG, but that's nothing that a bit of trial and error can't overcome for most.
From watching the behind-the-scenes set on the CE DVD, there is obviously a large amount of end-game raiding done, despite the "1% myth" that people talk about.
What is most striking to me with this expansion is that large amount of players with little-to-no raiding experience who are getting to 70 very quickly by repeated grinding or pugging through instances. Of course, I'm sure some of those are plevelers :)
Druid dude Feb 1st 2007 5:09PM
Are we all talking about the same game here? World of Warcraft recently released an expansion pack with a TON of 5 man maximum level instances. There is more stuff to do other than raid than ever. So why are the Raider Haters coming out of the woodwork to QQQQ and offer their sage business advice to Blizzard on how to best spend development budget?
paul Feb 2nd 2007 3:09PM
i love raiding, i have a good time getting nice loot that the average casual player cant get.
Crypt King Feb 2nd 2007 11:31AM
God I'm so sick of the Us vs. Them mentality and raider hate.
Muess Feb 2nd 2007 7:52AM
@14
Laf! You're joking right? Respect the hardcore raiders? I feel nothing but pity for people who spend that much time playing a game.
Smithra Feb 2nd 2007 10:22AM
@Mottster
My work here is done!