Nerf.... wait, who do we want to nerf this week?
by Elizabeth Harper 
Feb 6th 2007 at 5:20PM
The cries to nerf warlocks have been so loud on the forums lately that it's nearly refreshing to see them replaced by something else. This week's nerf cries seem to focus almost entirely on druids, as forum posters run back and forth about whether or not druids are overpowered and, if so, how to fix them. And, of course, the there's always the constant cycle of "nerf your class, buff my class" posts.Those claiming druids are overpowered say that druids shouldn't be able to tank like a warrior, DPS like a rogue (or, I suppose, a mage, depending on spec), kite like a hunter, and heal like priest. And the druids argue that they can't do all of these things at once -- and to be as good as any primary class, they have to spec for it and gear for it which limits their effectiveness in other areas.
And in a massively multiplayer game like this, where major class changes can come unexpectedly with any patch or hotfix, I wonder which class will be overpowered next week, and the week after. Taking all bets...
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Classes, Druid
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Chris M Feb 6th 2007 5:34PM
They can't heal like a Priest, they definitely can't DPS like a Mage, and I doubt they can really tank like a Warrior. Kiting like a hunter? Maybe.
In all reality- they do all these things sub-par to the real thing. It makes for a pretty light show when a Druid goes into healbot mode, but is it as good as the real thing? Can they drop a PW:S on a low-HP ally when there are 20 other heals in order?
Can they spam AoE like a mage and drop back to deal out terror in a firey form?
They look great as a multi-tasker, but are just as inefficient at it as a DPS Warrior
Chris
Das Feb 6th 2007 5:46PM
What people tend to forget is that Druids have absolutely awful utility spells. I'd agree in that druids can heal very well, tank alright, and dps alright. The thing about druids is that they are like a blunted version of the class they choose to emulate at any given time, they can't dps or tank or heal with as much finesse as rogues, warriors, or priests. What this translates into is that an average druid is as good as any average rogue, warrior, etc. but an excellent druid will never be as good as an excellent rogue, or warrior, or priest.
In essence, what I am saying is L2P NUBS LOL!! Except with words instead of stupid.
My take on it anyway.
Kata Feb 6th 2007 5:50PM
Nerf nerfers. =P
In my experience, those who have been the biggest criers of "Nerf" do not know how to play their own class. While my warlock was able to turn many into soul shards, she was still taken down by good players. The key to defeating the "overpowered" is to learn the strengths of your own class and use that.
That being said, I'm glad the druid class received a buff. I have a level 42 druid that has been collecting dust for a while now. I grew bored with being a healbot. I did enjoy Moonkin form, but that was mainly for entertaining people while waiting for the boat.
James Feb 7th 2007 1:35AM
Nerf druids? I've never played one...I've played against plenty of them in PvP, and I've teamed with them. Several classes come to mind when I think of getting the nerf bat out. Druids are not one of them. Druids are not even on my list.
Buff warriors. I quit playing mine because he's basically inferior to everything else in the game. If any classes need a nerfing, it is STILL warlocks and pallies. However, locks are more annoying than anything, and I base my views on how well my hunter manages to fight against a class in PvP. Locks can kill me, I can kill them, one on one. Just depends on how things go. There is one class that I cannot touch one on one--a pally. And heaven forbid there are two of them. You can forget it. Rogues can't seem to handle them, mages, can't, so I'm wondering which class can other another pally.
I've heard they're not so uber post-60. Whatever. They might as well be Superman pre-60 in the BG's. I'll let my hunter get nerfed and my warrior stay mediocre if means pallies get nerfed.
Druids. Har. Leave them alone.
Shalkis Feb 6th 2007 6:16PM
Personally, I've found that bear druids at 70 are significantly ahead of equally-geared warriors. More health, doesn't require crowd control to survive, generates more threat with a single hit than a warrior with 3 sunders..
Unless I'm toying around with a stolen Fire Shield buff, I simply can't steal aggro from a bear tank.
Scott Feb 6th 2007 6:22PM
Don't worry Druid gear doesn't scale for 70 so back to being healers
crsh Feb 6th 2007 9:35PM
As a rogue, I have no problem admitting well-geared cat-form druids can out-DPS us thanks to the mechanics that give them a lot more AP than rogues; however, because weapon upgrades are what make rogues so deadly far in end-game (as in, when it'll actually be accessible in the game), they have an edge they won't necessairly keep against all rogues (I imagine it's roughly the same story for bear tanks vs. warriors).
paul Feb 6th 2007 7:00PM
buff warlocks
tyger Feb 6th 2007 7:27PM
leave the druids alone.
Chris Feb 6th 2007 7:38PM
They CAN do all of that very well, if not better with the right gear and spec as the other classes. I see no reason to change anything except making them not tank as well as warriors since that's all the class is usefull for.
Nighethis Feb 7th 2007 11:00AM
give Rogues Mail armor!!! :D (wishful thinking...)
Cutler Feb 6th 2007 7:57PM
You're right, druids can't tank, dps, or heal as well as the other classes, and it's like Das said, druids have horrible utility spells. My main is a 67 (come on 68, I want to fly!) druid and I've done the feral and resto spec (moonkin creeps me out, don't know why).
As a bear tank, we have good hate generation, more armor and life than an equal-level, equal-geared warrior, but cannot crowd control, block, or generate rage nearly as well.
As a cat, dps, crit chance, and dodge chance are on par with an equal-level/geared rogue, but no vanish, poison, stunlock, duel weilding, etc.
Again, I've never tried moonkin form, but I can't imagine it being anywhere near the DPS of a mage.
As a tree, druids can dish out some serious HoTs, but no burst healing, no threat reduction, poor mana generation while casting, and a 30 min cooldown, reagent requiring rez, FTL.
So all in all, we're not really superior at any one thing, but we can do a little of everything, that's the point of a hybrid class. That's why I play one. My main friends in Wow are a fury warrior, a holy paladin, and a destruction warlock, so being able to fill multiple roles really comes in handy. By the way, feral druid + warlock = neverending carnage. After a couple fights I switch out, throw a Rejuv on myself, and then all of my HoT's on my friend as he mana taps, and then it's right back into the fray.
Pzychotix Feb 6th 2007 8:29PM
"As a bear tank, we have good hate generation, more armor and life than an equal-level, equal-geared warrior, but cannot crowd control, block, or generate rage nearly as well."
Warriors don't have that much crowd-control either, other than AoE Fear (which is usually deadly inside an instance). Our lack of block is mitigated by our higher armor. We generate rage better than warriors at this point, due to rage generation from crits (swipe spam > *). What we DO lack is "Oh-CRAP!" buttons. Warriors have last stand, pots, shieldwall , and so forth. We just have a 250 tick regen.
"As a cat, dps, crit chance, and dodge chance are on par with an equal-level/geared rogue, but no vanish, poison, stunlock, duel weilding, etc."
DPS is about on par of rogues, maybe a little less. Again, lack of Oh-CRAP, except turning into bear.
"Again, I've never tried moonkin form, but I can't imagine it being anywhere near the DPS of a mage."
Mages aren't supposed to be uber-DPS. Instead, they are the foremost AoE kings. Their single target DPS is nothing to scoff at however. Moonkins haven't had much trouble getting similar DPSes though for short fights. The only reason why they were never good for raids was because of the "OOMkin" nature of it. Moonkins have a horrible time when it comes to regenning mana. In any long fight, mages beat out moonkins due to the fact that they have evocation + mana gems. Our innervates almost always go to the healer for when it's needed.
"As a tree, druids can dish out some serious HoTs, but no burst healing, no threat reduction, poor mana generation while casting, and a 30 min cooldown, reagent requiring rez, FTL."
Rejuv+Swiftmend, Regrowth+Swiftmend, or even shifting out for NS+HT. However, if your HoTs are strong enough, you probably wouldn't need it, given the high HP buffer that all tanks have. Threat reduction has never been a problem for me, pre-BC. Raids barely ever involve healers pulling aggro. If they do, that's a tank problem. Fade is only a temporary aggro reduction also.
Finally, our 30 minute reagent requiring rez is a battle rez. Don't forget that. Battle rezzes can be the life saver that downs that last boss in a raid.
jakk on the blackrock server Feb 6th 2007 9:10PM
psychotix, blizzard has said many times that mages are meant to be the highest single target dps IN THE GAME. we sacrifice armor and threat reduction for massive amounts of damage and a whole lot of aoe. id like to see any class outdps a well specced fire mage.
crsh Feb 6th 2007 9:42PM
Err.. sir jakk #12, mages are the best multi target DPS class, but not single target; they have awesome burst damage, granted, but in the long run their DPS is not sustainable because out of mana=no DPS (I'm talking long PvE fights, never been much of a PvPer); thus rogues/cat-form druids/DPS warriors end up coming on top.
qqmorel2p Feb 6th 2007 11:00PM
My two cents...
Bear druids have a lot more armor, hp, and dodge. Protection warriors have block and parry and a few panic buttons. Bears do more dps because that's how they hold aggro...it's just the mechanics of the class.
Cat druids have high AP and a 1.0 attack speed. Cats can generally match all but the best rogues on the dps charts, but rogues have a lot more flexibility, (especially after the expansion) with poisons, different finishers, vanish to completely wipe aggro, cloak of shadows to remove all harmful magic effects, and useful talents like AR, BF, Shadowstep, Mutilate...etc. etc.
Moonkin druids I don't have very much experience with, but I find that they burn through mana very very fast. Single target damage is great but AoE is inferior to a mage's, with only Hurricane available. Also if they are indoors they aren't as effective because they can't use Entangling Roots. Importantly, they have no way of reducing aggro.
Resto/Tree Druids can generally heal as well as a priest, although the tree form is based totally on HoTs and regrowth. I see no problem with resto druids healing as well as priests because they have to have the appropriate gear, and they put the bulk of their talent points into the restoration tree. Also, a group will have to bring along someone else with a hard rez anyway. No, druids should not get a hard rez because that would allow them to completely supplant priests, which no one wants to happen.
Druids aren't really hybrids...that title would better fit a Shaman, who can actually dps and heal without being limited by the mana costs and time delay of shapeshifting. They are specialists limited by their gear and where they have invested their talent.
That said, it is great for partying when your main healer goes OOM on an encounter and your druid realizing this shifts out to innervate/ replace heal. This is just the flexibility that comes with the class, and it's not like the cat druid who probably has little if any +healing will
Overall, the druid class is fine, possibly a bit overpowered. Things will be clearer when a large number of players get to 70. I predict a few nerfs though.
But...just remember before, when any serious raiding druid HAD to spec resto. Feral and balance used to be jokes. Druids used to be free honor. Now they at least have respect in the battlegrounds.
Griimnir Feb 7th 2007 2:59AM
Alright, first off, I see no reason to nerf shamans, I think they're fine. If anything needs to get nerfed it's warlocks.
As far as buffs go, warriors need buffs. Seriously. My main, Griimnir is currently a 65 DPS warrior specializing in dual wield, and 1h axes (as you can imagine, I dual wield axes.). What's been aggrivating (and has, and still is making me consider quitting my warrior) is that, while I have good equipment, and even better weapons, and i'm well specced, I just can't drop mobs or other players as fast as any other class can. The 'well warriors are pretty much just meant to be tanks' thing is crap, if they were, they wouldn't have the option to specc for dps. I'm not saying make dps warriors like rogues, but for christ's sakes, at least give us the friggin' ability to drop mobs or other players in at least HALF the time it takes other classes.
I mean really, you look at BGs and pvp in general and warriors are hard to find, and if you do, they don't last long, every patch all I see are buffs, fixes, and nerfs for pretty much all the classes except warriors, it's like we're being forgotten. Bring back warriors, make them WORTH SOMETHING again!
nea Feb 7th 2007 3:18AM
@11
Sorry, but from what I know ROGUES are supposed to be the highest single-target dps. Mages sacriface armor and hp for high _ranged_ dps. And since mages got invisibility, threat problems should be no more.
As for druids, "we have to spec to do different roles" is the biggest lie ever. Last time I checked, Feral tree covered both tank (bear form upgrades) and dps (cat form upgrades). My opinion may be flawed as Warriors are supposed to be gimped atm (which I slightly disagree with), but when a druid opens a fight in a cat, burns me down faster then a rogue in his short stun-opener, then switch into unkillable bear, that still can dish out some heavy damage on PLATE, while dodging like a rogue and having armor like a warrior dual wielding SHIELDS, I'd say there is something wrong.
andyf Feb 7th 2007 3:43AM
Just dinged 69 so ..
Blizz please overbuff Rogues by accident in a hotfix that goes out, say, NOW. Could do with a quick grind to 70 please :)
Shame I missed out on the 'adrenaline rush' bug, that really would be grind heaven to have that stuck on for a couple hours.
staindman Feb 7th 2007 4:24AM
Honestly, you people should just learn to play your class. I have seen people do just the opposite of everything said in this thread. I have seen druids specced correctly who can heal, tank, and dps (spell or melee) better than anyone (these are seperate druids, mind you). I have seen a dps warrior outdo everyone in a group. I am a moonkin by spec and i rarely go oom. One of the best casting dps'ers i know is an elemental shaman. It's all in the build/gear and knowing your class. So, next time you want to complain about or mock a class, you should do your homework and check out what people can really do.