The etiquette of alchemy specializations
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Feb 8th 2007 at 9:30AM
Alchemy specialization works quite differently from all the other profession specializations in the game. Instead of gaining access to new recipes, you get a chance to create an extra item whenever you make potions, elixirs, or transmutes, depending on what you're specialized in. I've chosen Elixir Specialization (I don't make a lot of pure potions and too many people doing transmute spec will ruin the economy), and I haven't gotten any procs yet. A guildmate of mine did Transmutation Specialization and got two Primal Mights out of one, the lucky so-and-so.
Minkyminky of Feathermoon brings up an excellent question on the forums when she asks "If you're paying someone to make potions, elixirs or transmutes with your mats, who gets any extras -- you or the alchemist?" My first inclination is that the alchemist should keep the extras. After all, I did the elixir specialization quest and had to collect all the materials to do it. You paid me for five Onslaught Elixirs, and five Onslaught Elixirs is what you're gonna get -- any extras are a result of my time and my work into the specialization. This is a bigger question with transmutation, since transmutes are on a cooldown and produce much more expensive results. Who wouldn't want an extra primal might? Plus, the customer is the one seeking out the alchemist. If a person goes into the deal saying "If your transmute spec procs, I want the extra," they're probably not going to get that transmute done.
Beltira of Aegwynn is a transmute specialist who's come up with an ingenious system. She advertises, "375 Alch Transmute Specialist available: 10g for xmute - I keep proc, 50g for xmute - you keep proc." If the customer pays 10g and the specialization happens to proc, it's too late, they can't change their mind. Basically, the customer is paying extra for a chance at more loot -- kind of like a lottery. Some other people add that they plan to keep an "extra primal might" in their backpack and trade it at the time of the transmute. Then later on, they'll do the transmute with the mats they got and keep whatever comes out, thus avoiding the whole problem.
I still think any extra potions, elixirs or transmutes should be the property of the alchemist, but I understand the other view. What do you think?
Filed under: Alchemy, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Drakar24 Feb 8th 2007 9:45AM
It's like anything else. You are paying for a service. If anything extra comes out of it, it should stay with the alchemist since they put all the hard work in to get their specialization. You paid for one transmute/potion, you get one transmute/potion.
Jenet Feb 8th 2007 9:43AM
If someone without the specialization did the transmute, would they get any extra?
No?
then screw em. Just cause I did work doesn't mean you should benefit from it.
Pruflas Feb 8th 2007 9:48AM
ok help me out here, i've missed this specializations for alchemy all together..
someone please bring me up to speed - I play horde, where do you learn specialization? So far all i've done is buy what i could find, even discovered a recipe..
multikast Feb 8th 2007 9:53AM
I am an alchemist that has yet to work at getting up to 375. however, once i get there, regardless of the path i choose, I will keep all extras that are made from specialization procs. i feel no guilt for it either. although i do kind of like the 'lottery' system you mentioned above. i guess i'll have to wait and see how often it procs. But i would never just give someone an extra that they aren't paying for. call me greedy, but i just don't see it any other way. i put in the time to get the skill, so if someone else wants to benefit from that, it will cost them.
anyone know the proc rate on these specializations?
Ryan Feb 8th 2007 10:02AM
If you make it you keep it. Unless someone offers to buy it as well. It's about making money? Isn't it. How else do you think an alchemist will be able to afford a mount.
Lei Gao Feb 8th 2007 10:03AM
You need to be lvl 68 and 350 alchemist for specialization quests.
Gitr Feb 8th 2007 10:11AM
My vote: Alchemist keeps procs.
I do like the lottery idea, though. Very inventive and fair.
Seamus Feb 8th 2007 10:22AM
Alchemists better damn well keep any extras they make unless the customer is paying for extra's...
Flit Feb 8th 2007 10:34AM
Depends on the toon. Guildies, get anything, even if it procs (extra stuff goes in the bank anyway). Nice people sometimes get extras (depending on how much work they do to get to me and such), and jerks (but i'm in Org, can't you come to me?) would have to pay for any procs.
The lottery is a good idea.
Strongmark on Arthas Feb 8th 2007 11:03AM
I can't believe some players would cry about not getting the extras. They paid for 10 potions, not 10 potions plus an extra. They are going into the transaction believing they are getting 10 potions, not anything else, as well, they are agreeing to pay for that particular product/service, and nothing else. Lottery sounds like a good idea, if someone wants to chance it, but I think the extras are a seperate transaction all together, that the alchemist who put the time and effort into learning their trade skill deserve the benefits they are reaping from it.
sdandy Feb 8th 2007 11:09AM
I wouldn't ask for the extras. If the specialist gets an extra, good on him/her.
Zuuler Feb 8th 2007 11:24AM
I haven't reached a lvl yet where I can train alchemy spec. But what I want to know is, if an alchemist is creating something for someone and their spec procs, is there something in the chat window indicating this has happened? I know when in a group you can see what someone else has created in a chat window, but outside of a group you usually cannot see this. So how would someone even know if your spec procs? And if they don't know, why bother even telling them?
If I am wrong in this, let me know.
Plex Feb 8th 2007 2:31PM
more specializations = more ways to ruin the economy. People are too greedy. And look at the prices of gems now... a little off topic but wtf. 2g for lvl 10-20 gems. ppl are so damn greedy.
Savok Feb 8th 2007 12:22PM
Honestly it's about time Alchemy became profitable, mats sell for WAY more then potions do, effectively making that aspect of Alchemy useless for gold. Elixirs are so crazy over the top in mats it's the same thing, really only there for hardcore raiding/PvP, the market simply isn't there as people who are into that already have a supply from their own guild.
All this leaves is Transmutes, 5g every couple of days, oh wow that massive potion grind was totally worth it.
Also Alchemy is not unique, Tailoring specializations do the same double thing for their cloth transmutes AND extra patterns.
Magentha Feb 8th 2007 12:24PM
This may sound rude (in part because i'm spanish and i'm not that good with english) but try to comprehend me.
I understand alchemist's point of view, you have worked so hard to become an specialist in your area and you want to compensate that effort. Reasonable.
In the other side I've been farming alot just to get the materials you will use to trasmute. Also i'm paying you to do it.
We both have invested time and resources to transmute that thing. Why we shouldn't share the benefits if the transmute thing procs? You keep the extra item and you pay me half of the price at AH (or viceversa). [Both sides should agree before closing the deal on who is keeping the item and how much does it costs at AH]
Otherwise I will find myself LF an alchemist not specialized in the area, just to avoid discussions and problems.
The exception will be when the alchemist is a friend of my in RL, in that case i have no problem if he decides to keep the extra item.
Baluki Feb 8th 2007 12:35PM
Yea, it's yours to do with as you please if you make an extra. It'll help alchemists finally make a little money.
A good idea would be to just offer to sell the extra to the buyer for half the price of the first one. They'll probably appreciate being able to get another so cheaply, and without extra materials.
TheTreasoner Feb 8th 2007 12:58PM
I agree mostly with 14, however, I don't see (as a non-alchemist I suppose I am a bit skewed in this regard, but needing five Primal Mights altogether for various enchanting rods, well, you get the idea) why alchemists should keep the extra stuff, when people generally pay for the alchemy-ing.
I farmed the materials for my Primal Might, I didn't buy them on the AH. Sure, it was while I was doing quests (which netted me the gold to pay the transmuter) but it still took time for me to get the five Primals. I am also -paying- for the transmute being done. Its not like the alchemist isn't getting anything out of it. If the don't like what I paid, next time specify a price or refuse to transmute for me.
Going through the "long hard process of specialization" is a load of crap. If you didn't want to specialize and have a chance of getting extra stuff, then don't do it! You're transmuting as a service, and the materials you use to transmute are, guess what, mine. Not yours. If you want to keep the extras from a transmute like that, buy your own materials.
A great solution to this problem is not partying with the person you're alchemy-ing for. Then they don't know how many you got.
Smithra Feb 8th 2007 1:58PM
TheTreasoner:
Are alchemists being paid for their labor or for the result of that labor?
Your whole "those were my materials" argument would hold up if the transmute actually consumed more of your stuff when they got an extra.
Let's turn it around. What if, instead of getting 2 there was a chance you'd get 0. Would you pay an alchemist the same price just to give it a shot? I wouldn't. Even if it didn't consume the materials and they could try again or return my materials, I'd only pay the alchemist when they returned to me a finished product.
I feel that most players are paying for products rather than labor. For that reason, the alchemist gets to keep the bonus, but he might sell it cheap just for quick cash in the pocket.
The lottery setup is pretty clever though, especially if you don't actually have the specialization that you're claiming.
350Alch Feb 8th 2007 3:20PM
@16: You, as the customer, are not losing anything. That's the #1 thing to remember about Speciality Procs. If you pay for 2 potions, a transmute, a stack of elixirs...That's what you get. You agreed to what was an acceptable price for whatever you wanted, how can that suddenly become unacceptable? You're still getting what you paid for.
Just because _my_ particular specialization occasionally gives _me_ extra items when I use _my_ profession doesn't entitle _you_ to anything. Let's say a contracting company agrees to expand a state highway by 2 lanes for a certain price. At the end of the project, when they're all finished, if the contracting company has enough materials leftover for a whole extra lane, do you think the State will require them to use all those materials for that extra lane? At no charge? Decidedly not.
KitKatDruid Feb 9th 2007 2:24AM
I agree with "the alchemist keeping the proc" side. You get what you pay for. Because something extra comes out of it does not mean you are entitled to it. It's almost akin to asking someone for the profession points they can get out of performing you a service. It's a bonus for someone who has put the time and effort to specialize in a certain area, a reward for hard work. If someone is doing you a service, he or she does not deserve to have things demanded from them, especially when they are not agreed upon beforehand. The lottery system looks most promising, and there is nothing that states a druid may not offer to sell their proc if the other party wants it. You cannot, however, logically demand from someone what is the output of their hard work without specifically asking and/or paying for it firstly and coming to an agreement. It seems to me like it would be asking someone to mine and smith for your Bronze Patterned Bracers for your Nifty Stopwatch quests and then demanding all the other materials that came from the nodes.