Rogues rejoice at their lack of cleavage!
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Feb 25th 2007 at 10:45PM
As has been noted many, many, many times before on this site, rogues and DPS warriors are somewhat unhappy with how tough the level 70 heroics and raids are on melee DPS. Blizz's Tigole has an official response: rather than giving melee DPS extra abilities, they're planning on changing mobs to make them more melee-friendly. For example, he said, Blizzard is planning on changing many 360 degree cleaves to 180 degree cone cleaves, which can be avoided by staying behind the mobs (which is probably where the rogues should be.)
On behalf of rogues, DPS warriors and feral druids, I say yay! What do you think?
Filed under: Druid, Rogue, Warrior, Blizzard, News items, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Matthew Rossi Feb 25th 2007 10:58PM
It's a minor but good change for rogues. Getting stupid cleaves that wreck them for no real reason has to be damn annoying. I can't imagine that many five man runs are going to have DPS warriors, and any Ferals on these runs will probably be tanking them, but if they're in kitty it's good for them too.
Alarius Feb 25th 2007 11:17PM
...and ret pallies.
Dras Feb 25th 2007 11:37PM
Ret pallies have plate, silly.
Gargyboy Feb 25th 2007 11:39PM
It's a massive upgrade, but the melee DPS isn't the beneficiary so much as the healers who have to strain to keep all those silly rogues up that won't run out to bandie occasionally.
Shat Feb 26th 2007 12:36AM
Ret pallies? In a party? Nah.
Boudreau Feb 26th 2007 10:59AM
For enhancement shamans too!
Matthew Rossi Feb 26th 2007 12:51AM
Also, ret pallies can heal themselves.
arvind.sundaram Feb 28th 2007 11:48PM
as a rogue all I can say is "about bloody time"
cheesebanana Feb 26th 2007 3:15AM
its nice but it doesn't change the fact that ranged dps still do more damage with zero cleaves and with zero AoE damage.
Oh yeh and the fact that to pull aggro at range requires a bigger % of increased threat than melee need to pull aggro (i forget exactly how much but i think its 15% more threat than melee).
I never see a reason to take a rogue over a mage to a 5 man instance as well. Rogues can only imp sap if they spec 7 points into a PvP tree for it, mages can always sheep. Mages can sheep mid battle and indefinitely. Mages can counterspell. Mages can AoE. Mages bring food and water.
Mages own rogues tbh.
Zorrg Feb 26th 2007 4:54AM
I think the 360 degree cleave is unfair, as it can not be avoided. But it's fine to keep the rogues and melee DPS on their toes by adding in a whirlwind or a similar ability where they would actually have to move out of the way to avoid damage. I would like to see Blizzard add some of the same mechanics for casters, such as more reflecting shields on mobs, to even the playing field a little bit. A caster can stand back and spam their favourite spell on the target without worry of getting it back in their face. The melee lives in constant fear of getting that dreaded cleave or knock-back (sending them out of melee range and even harder to keep up with the casters).
Tahiiri Feb 26th 2007 5:41AM
Rogues, DPS warriors...
Those huge mana-sink...I mean uh, those DPS MACHINES that are enhancement shamen...
I can finally take 1/2 my guilds shamens to heroics again, yay!
AndyF Feb 26th 2007 7:02AM
#7 - mages have a tendancy to go pop when fighting a boss that puts a magic shield up, and the mage doesn't notice. Happened last night on the Steamvaults boss, poor mage nuked himself before he realised what was going on.
Sÿn Feb 26th 2007 6:24AM
@7 You forget that mages don't have any way to drop that aggro (except ice block) when they do that 15% more. Whereas rogues can drop a bit with feint, or all with vanish. So mages might "own" rogues but their potential to pull aggro and die, whilst a rogue has vanished it all off, is far higher. I know who's doing more DPS then =).
acariquara Feb 26th 2007 7:11AM
...do not forget Felguards also.
Clever positioning can avoid cleaves and an insta-killed pet.
Dahlaine Feb 26th 2007 8:50AM
@10
Mages have invisibilty to dump aggro.
Drakar24 Feb 26th 2007 8:51AM
To #7. Rogues don't run out of mana. And as already mentioned, our threat control exceeds any other class in the game except probably hunters. My alt is a mage ( I love DPS ) and there are definitely advantages and disadvantages to both classes. I would not generalize and say one class owns the other. Especially with all the QQ by mages and warlocks in the rogue forums right now.
In any case, this is great news to anyone that's doing heroic content. Maybe we can get a few more invites now.I never understood the idea of 360 degree cleaves and I think it was a huge oversight on Blizzard'd part. Of course, it tells you how many dev's play rogues :( Now if we can get just get a few more seconds added to those AOE casts.
Seper Feb 26th 2007 9:00AM
I think its lame. I think companies give in to easy. I'm sure that people complained about naxx and the other endgame instances right away. But after awhile strategy came in and people figured out how to beat the instance.
Rogues should suck it up. There class isn't designed to live long, thats a risk you take as a rogue. I think they should have kept it in for a couple months and if they still noticed something then they should have nerfed the trash.
Falgorn Feb 26th 2007 8:55AM
I lol'd at the 'ret pally can heal himself also'.
Ret Paladins have to completely blow all their mana just to do 75% of a DPS classes damage, there is nothing left to heal with, and if there is, then they are doing crap damage, and either way on high hit point mobs the mana runs out very very fast.
Fury Warriors & Ret Paladins have virtually 0 Raid utility so don't expect to see them much in heroics and at all in 10 - 25 man. It's just not worth the mana it takes to keep them alive.
I have no issue with these specs, but they are for pvp, so stop kidding yourselves asking for raid spots.
Same goes for Shadow priests, even more so after the next patch.
The Change to cleave actually helps everyone, as those mobs that use it which also shed threat a lot can be controlled that little bit more by stepping behind or out of the 180 degree cone.
Tigraine Feb 26th 2007 9:56AM
@16.. BS.
There is NO freakin way to avoid AoE Cleaves.
They don't have any cast animation, they are NOT cast. They just occur randomly and INSTANT.
So there is no freakin way to get out of those cleaves before getting hit. And yay. If a cleave hits you for 4k damage after 5 seconds on a Mob you either die instantly due to a crit or you get out and need a pretty long break to get back to full HP with bandages and stuff. You DPS Drops in that break totally, your healer gets in trouble because the fight takes longer, your healer may also choose to heal you back to full, and that will also get him into trouble with mana and timing on the tank.
And what do you mean by "There class isn't designed to live long, thats a risk you take as a rogue.".
Have you ever heard yourself talking?
We take risks already by staying in melee range, having to move around all the time while the tanks struggles to keep aggro. We are exposed to ALL AoE Damage originated from the Mobs.
But we are there for ONE reason: DPS.
And if we die on every pull while having hardly done anything there WE ARE FREAKIN MISPLACED THERE.
There is no possible way how you could explain your Group leader WHY IN THE HELL HE BROUGHT YOU!. You didn't contribute. Zero. You were just out there to die and pay your repair bill. But besides causing trouble you didn't do anything.
So please explain to me what do you want a rogue to do in an Heroic Instance when not being able to approach a mob?
Kuhtarl Feb 26th 2007 10:37AM
Rogues can use thrown weapons on bosses. I don't see what the problem is. Actually, pull the boss outside, have the DURID root the boss and then everyone can throw rocks and stuff at it. Problem solved.