Forum Thread of the Day: Karazhan's timer too long?
by Eliah Hecht 
Mar 8th 2007 at 8:57PM
Meugly, of Wraith on H-Icecrown-US, asks the simple question "shouldn't Karazhan be on a shorter timer?" Currently, it resets every week (on Tuesday, like all the other weekly raids). ZG and AQ20, on the other hand, reset every three days. Meugly's argument basically seems to go like this:- Raiding guilds are having enough trouble transitioning from 40-mans to 25-mans, so
- Having a 10-man raid as the pathway to 25-mans creates a huge bottleneck.
- You can't really skip ahead to 25-man content, since you need the gear from KZ to have a chance at later raids.
- If you've got a raid guild with fair amount of raiders, you've basically got two options:
- Run one group a week, and leave a lot of people out. Obviously imperfect.
- Run two groups a week. This is, as Meugly says, "a logistical horror. So many of the boss fights require a pretty specific group make up. If one of the two teams is short a single player in a key class, they probably won't be able to raid at all that night."
What do you all think? Is KZ enough of a "serious" raid to warrant a full week reset timer?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Neowar Mar 8th 2007 10:14PM
I guess guilds who have mastered Kara would benefit from a smaller cooldown. However my guild hasnt finished Kara yet, and since we can only raid 3 days a week, we would be screwed if they put a 3 day cooldown on it. The instance is pretty long anyway, and although you can skip some, we would like to do the whole thing (xcept for animal boss lol) and therefore we need more time. Besides, the game is not only made for guild that raid 5-7 days a week imo.
HDouglas Mar 8th 2007 9:12PM
/agree. I realise that Blizzard are trying to get mileage out of the end game content in The Burning Crusade expansion but as Meugly points out, KZ should be a stepping stone to the 25-man stuff, a testing ground.
With ALOT of 25-man content to go this is splitting guilds and making it hard to progress.
Our guild for example is trying to get a B-Team KZ group going, but naturally they are made up of the less serious gamers who took longer to hit 70 and get attuned therefore they will naturally fall behind the A-Team. Which will eventually mean that we are waiting for them or have to split up teams to help them progress to 25-man stuff.
We also need the gear from the first few bosses to get through the content faster and enable the guild to perform as one again rather than this fragmentation that is occurring now.
corruptedend Mar 8th 2007 9:27PM
Having a timer at all on a 10man raid is kinda rediculous IMO. Could you imagine a timer on UBRS? Granted this is much newer materiel however, it's a 10 man. It's not ZG it's not AQ20. Before MC was UBRS, Scholo, and Strat. Apples and oranges? Maybe but it's my 2c
Ugkul Mar 8th 2007 10:26PM
KZ is really becoming problematic for guilds, who have to have an A-Team and B-Team. A-team needs 12-13, and leaves B-team shorthanded. It's quite a morale drainer for guilds, and Blizzard should have thought a little more about the impact of some of their shifts.
Breakfats Mar 8th 2007 10:42PM
Keep the one week timer, but allow multiple instance id's for Karazhan. This would allow an A-team to help out the B-team, makes switching and filling easier and would also leave more time to the more casual players for learning the encounters.
Raiding guilds should be able to handle the increased complexity and for the casual guilds, it stays the same.
Greg Mar 8th 2007 11:14PM
My suggestion would be a 7-day lockout, but with the option to reset the instance once Nightbane is killed. Allows the casuals to run the instance at their leisure, and the hardcores to blast through it as much as they want.
Of course, this would allow the hardcore to get more rewards for the greater amount of work they put in, which would renew the always-flowing tears of the casual forum trolls.
Trancet Mar 9th 2007 12:25AM
I believe that this would help solve alot of guild problems, gear problems, and the 25man transition without effecting the game horribly, very nice =)
vince Mar 9th 2007 12:57AM
7 days is fine, and #2 has obviously never been to kara.
csulok Mar 9th 2007 1:13AM
if they decreased the reset timer you would get t4 tokens a twice as fast and they would never allow that. i dont think it required much explanation why that will never happen. eod
Dewbie Mar 9th 2007 2:29AM
Currently a guild running two Kara groups is getting 2 T4 gloves and 2 helmets per week. If they are downing Maulgar, they are getting 1 T4 shoulder per week. Mag is also on a 1 week timer, and drops just one T4 token for the chest piece.
What you are suggesting would give 4 gloves, 4 helmets/week, and we'd still be stuck with only 1 shoulders/robe.
7-day timer on Karazhan is fine. Gruul and Magtheridon need to be tuned so they can be done concurrently with Karazhan, and they need to drop 2 tokens each.
samba Mar 9th 2007 4:22AM
What I think? Please do NOT use the abbreviation KZ. In German it stands for Konzentrationslager, the death camps where the Nazis killed millions of people. Thanks.
Zaud Mar 9th 2007 6:52AM
@11
The word Samba means 'I ran over your dog with a lawnmower' in English, and that is how my dog died, I am offended. Please don't use that word again.
...see how silly that is? Do you get offended every time someone says SS instead of Soulstone? Listen, sorry that abbreviation causes you dismay, but for the rest of us playing WoW in every other county, we don't care. Don't expect anyone to change.
Ephor Mar 9th 2007 8:38AM
/disagree
The biggest reason two full, balanced groups is an issue in a raid that's about half the size of the old raids is the fact that so few people are 70 and properly geared at this point in the game. If they lowered the timer to 3-days, they'd have to raise it again in 3 months when most good-sized guilds could run it 2/week without issues.
Zuuler Mar 9th 2007 7:39AM
I understand that remembering the past prevents people from making the same mistake in the future. But seriously, there comes a time when you need to move on and understand that what happened is done and over and life goes on. You can't dwell on the abbreviation KZ as something bad forever. You know damn well that not one person who posted here and abbreviated KZ was talking about a german death camp. You need to stop taking things out of context just because they can mean something else.
I think blizzard made the timer on KZ long for casual players, who like above, only have time to raid 3 days a week. As for me, I will probably never get into KZ, as I have never had time to raid at all. Oh well, I have lots of fun soloing anyway.
Ryan Mar 9th 2007 8:09AM
@1 Doing an A team and B team is going to hurt your progression in the long run; best thing to do is pick teams playground-style on tuesday, then just try your best to keep the teams going throughout the week.
Rocklaw Mar 9th 2007 8:42AM
A seven day timer is fine for now. Like many, I am in a guild that raids three nights a week - Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday.
We've only just downed Moroes for the second time. Having the full week to learn new encounters and get better at ones we've already done is very much needed. In addition, it gives us time to upgrade our gear in 5-mans and heroics on off nights.
While we didn't get too far into AQ40 and never ventured into Naxx, it did not take us too long to get MC and BWL down to one-night clears. But we needed the seven-day resets to get enough time to progress.
Perhaps they can drop it to a five day, like Ony, in a later content patch release. Two Tier 2 helms every five days? On what is, once learned, an easily farmable encounter? Blizzard has shown that it will permit that rate of gear-droppage already....
Todd Mar 9th 2007 9:55AM
@Zaud
Huh? What? What English are you referring to? I've never heard of "Samba" referring to "'I ran over your dog with a lawnmower" in English. What country are you from?
Zerbe Mar 9th 2007 10:01AM
@Todd
He was making a joke to make a point.
Ampersand Mar 9th 2007 10:27AM
My guild runs two consecutive groups, and A team and a B team if you will. Our A team has cleared all but nightbane, our B team is on prince.
Having cleared kara with the A team for almost a month now, we do a full clear minus nightbane in two days of raiding. (We raid 6 days a week). The week long timer makes me, well, bored. I like the extra time to farm herbs for mats and such but having 4 days to be bored when your a raider is bad for business. I'd rather go from raid to raid than clear kara in two days and leave myself to twidle my thumbs for the rest of the week.
If they shorten up the timer for kara, it wouldn't be disastrous. If you can even clear kara, all that means is more t4 for your group. I think everyone would agree that t4 isn't even that much better than blues/various epics we already had.
As our A team gets faster and faster with the clears, we can sub out some of our more geared guys into the B team to help them progress. Sooner or later they will be on par with us. If we are able to clear in 2 days on a 3 day timer, it would allow us to swap into the other raid to help them without putting a damper on the A team's raiding schedule.
Quite frankly, the gear in kara isn't good enough to merit a week long timer. The more you do kara, the easier the boss fights become. If everyone in A team got 2 pieces of t4 in a few weeks what would that change? I know certain people that don't even want there t4 because its just that bad, and they even nerfed the rogue stuff...week long timer just to stall us on 25 man progression it what it seems like. Blizzard is smart yet linear in their intentions toward progression.
Todd Mar 9th 2007 10:26AM
Some joke, made him look like an ass. Almost sounds as if he said he didn't care that Zonzentrationslager was a death camp.
"...but for the rest of us playing WoW in every other county, we don't care..."
Please, speak for yourself. I'm sure there are many other people in many other countries who do care.