You can't go home again
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 8th 2007 at 3:29PM
When the expansion came around, we did a lot of speculating about what would happen to the "old" raid instances, now that the items were so much better in Outland. So now that people are working through the level 70 instances (that guy to the right isn't just Murmur on fire), what has happened back in Azeroth?I've only been back through old instances a few times, and every single one was just depressing. My guild, a few weeks ago, decided to run MC with about 30 people, just so some alts could get geared and we could spit in the face of mobs who'd given us trouble in the past. But I was glad I had to leave for some real life stuff halfway through-- we were taking down bosses without even blinking, and trash mobs dropped too fast for me to even get a cast off. We fought for weeks over this?
I've also done one run of UBRS (to get some people attuned to BWL, which I passed on after that bad MC experience), and one of Stratholme just the other night-- my 61 rogue, a 65 priest and a 70 hunter farming Runecloth and Righteous Orbs tore both sides of that place apart so quickly that I was bored the whole time (the Eye showed up, and we just killed the adds it brought). The one place I'd actually gain something from, Zul'Gurub (I've got quest pieces that I need rep to turn in yet), I haven't had the guts to go back to yet-- I liked running the instance so much when it was challenging that I feel like going back there now with ten or even five people and tearing it apart would be like visiting the house you grew up in: everything just seems so much smaller and more depressing.
Have you been back to the old content? Is there any challenging fun to be gotten from it at all? Originally, I was thinking it would be nice if Blizzard could reinvigorate these old instances, and I guess some kind of heroic mode would still be fun. But at this point, I'm almost of the opinion that they should just be put out of their misery.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Blizzard, Instances, Expansions, Leveling
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
FadedReality Mar 8th 2007 3:59PM
I've been on a 45 minute baron run with a 5 man of 60-68 players, also went back in solo to get my piccolo after dinging 70 :P
I've heard stories of duos going in and cruising right on to the bosses that might drop some BOE tier 0 for an up and coming alt...
Also heard the other day of a Naxx PUG that ended up with 18 people, but they wiped on the first boss and said screw it let's go back to outland.
steve Mar 8th 2007 3:59PM
We were running alts and pallies through scarlet, and basically pulled the entire instance and just AOE'd it down.
Chris Mar 8th 2007 4:03PM
Not everyone enjoyed the "challenge" the old instances brought. While the 5-mans were always pretty easy, I never enjoyed wiping endlessly in raids (no more than wiping endlessly now).
To be perfectly honest, we headed back to some low-level stuff just for kicks and ENJOYED it. We enjoyed not having to worry about running back, gold for repairs, etc. We enjoyed not needing to farm for mats. We enjoyed actually knowing the exact strat to use.
"Challenge" in Wow was always relative. Is it "challenging" to have an instance kick your ass repeatedly? Not really. I always thought it was akin to having model building as a hobby, and every time you put the plane together it would fall apart on its own. This would happen for a couple weeks, then you'd finally get it together. Happy with this accomplishment? Not really -- just went onto the next plane for a few more weeks. Rinse and repeat.
Give me "easy" instances any day.
Doodzin Mar 8th 2007 4:02PM
Soloed Jailbreak on my 65 feral druid before the patch went thru....The hardest part was picking up the loot faster than Windsor got to then next cell...it was fun, however.
Tony Mar 8th 2007 4:04PM
lvl70 Undead warlock
i would love to see them redo SM and ZF for lvl 70 to go have fun in. I love the instances and i think it would be good to go and do them now
Metaphyzxx Mar 8th 2007 4:12PM
this just saddens me, seeing as there was so much on azeroth I hadn't done with my highest lvl character... its almost like there's really no reason to go back to Azeroth once you've gone to Outland... Retune, tweak, add content, SOMETHING...
Give me a reason to do my first DM run, or do scholo, or strath, or bwl, or ubrs... or one of the many, previously endgame instances I never did.
Sylythn Mar 8th 2007 4:15PM
I never even got to run them the first time around - I hit 60 right before the expansion. I've been in ZG once for 3 bosses, and MC once with 15 people to take down luci. It's ridiculous that I'm missing out on all this great content...is it really my fault that I discovered the game a year after it started, and play casually enough that it took me another year to hit 60?
They really really REALLY need to make Heroic modes for the old raids - so we can go back and enjoy them!
Theadrick Mar 8th 2007 4:27PM
No reason to go back to Azeroth? What about Kharazan and Caverns of Time? Some of the highest level 5-10 mans in TBC are in Azeroth. Not to mention Zul'Aman which is rumored to be a 25 man raid.
drew Mar 8th 2007 4:28PM
I would love to see heroic mode. That way when you visit your old stomping grounds, it wouldn't seem so small! It would still be a challenge, just like it was before. With the current Heroic-mode token system, it would be rather easy to itemize the old raid instances -- just give out tokens as boss drops! :)
Metaphyzxx Mar 8th 2007 4:29PM
#7
I'm with you on this. I've been playing since launch... when my gf was pregnant. I hit 30 when the baby was born, and couldn't hit 60 until the expansion. I've got like 15 characters in the mid-20s, but that's not good enough to run MC... really wish I could've.
Metaphyzxx Mar 8th 2007 4:31PM
#8
Good point, forgot about those. Still, you're not really doing azeroth as much as you're doing those specific instances... I'll save my complaining until I see what Zul Aman is all about.
Evan Mar 9th 2007 1:46AM
i soloed zg trash for coins and bijus for sholder enchants till i get better ones at exaulted(aldor)
Meridith Mar 8th 2007 4:43PM
I demand Heroic SM! I love SM. I love running lowbie friends and guildies through SM. I RP as an Undead mage, and I took a friend through what I called the "culinary tour" of Armory. Good times.
Arikul Mar 8th 2007 5:21PM
The other night my friend and I (70 holy paladin and 70 feral druid) did a 45 min Baron run. It was fun, but nowhere near as challenging as it used to be. And I agree that heroic modes for the old dungeons would be fun; I miss Scarlet Monastery. But I understand that it would require a whole of work on the part of the developers to "attune" the dungeons to 70s, and their time might be better spent working out the kinks of Outland first. For now I'm satisfied playing through the old dungeons with my friends in our new, static, 5-man, blood elf group. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "omg blood elves". Cracks me up every time.
stapleboy Mar 9th 2007 9:43AM
I think it'd be great if they made heroic level 70 5-man versions of the Azeroth raid instances. It would require more programming than tweaking the numbers to convert a level 60 raid into a level 70 raid, but would add tons to the game for WoW latecomers and players who enjoy PvE in smaller doses. They could even tie it to Argent Dawn rep so people have some incentive to hang out in Azeroth after level 58.
Heck, if Blizzard does that and gets the BG matching system to work... they can spend 3 or 4 years on the next expansion :)
roridan Mar 9th 2007 1:45AM
I soloed Sunken Temple at level 65 or 66 as a feral druid. I had fun doing it. I thought the dreamer would spank me, but he just went back to sleep with ease. I plan to return to ST on a regular basis in a few days since I just switched to leatherworking and will be skinning dragons right and left. I am still going to do a 45 minute baron run with my warrior because it plagued the hell out of me before BC. I am going to get my hero set even if I never put it on! Just the general principal of the thing I guess.
I enjoy spanking the fool out of stuff at times and at times I find it boring. I still ran solo runs of Deadmines just to get gear for my alts or to get items to disenchant or sell.
There are many reasons to running old instances; be it to help an alt, a guildmate, to get the dark furnace or whatever. You just cannot expect to get the super gear as you used to…or you can, it is just not so super any more. It is the natural progression of the game. Plus for the casuals out there that have never really had much of a chance to run MC, ZG, Onyxia, BWL, AQ, Naxx, and so forth to actually see and do some of it since we can now do it with fewer people.
We are going to be running school later for a guild pally to get her epic mount, and I for one am looking forward to spanking the living fool out of that place. I am not a Scholo fan!
Mats Mar 8th 2007 5:11PM
My guild has tried, but I said long before BC that I would not go back to MC or any of the 60-raids "for fun" as there is nothing fun in doing these instances.
There was a reason why we did not "for fun" do a 10 man raid in Sunken Temple, a good reason why we did not team up elite 5 man parties and go to BRD "for fun", it's not fun.
And after doing MC, most of my guild said "meh, lets not do that again"
Now they are talking about doing AQ40.. *sigh*
RaydenUni Mar 8th 2007 5:22PM
How many level 60 dungeons are there?
ST, BRD, LBRS, UBRS, Stratholme, Scholomance, ZG, MC, BWL, Dire Maul, Onyxia's Lair, Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj, Temple of Ahn'qiraj.
That is 13 dungeons with 60 in the name. Not all of them are fun or challenging at 60, ST for one, but they are there.
How many level 70 dungeons are there?
Karazhan, Zul'Aman, Opening the Dark Portal, Battle of Mount Hyjal, The Shattered Halls, Magtheridon's Lair, The Steamvault, Serpenshrine Cavern, Shadow Labyrinth, The Mechanar, The Botanica, The Arcatraz, The Eye, Gruui's Lair, Black Temple.
That is 15. So there are just as man, even more level 70 dungeons out there.
The mix of 5 vs 20+ man are about the same. So there are a similar number of dungeons. It would be really nice to go back and play all of those original dungeons at 70 though. Before BC you had a LOT of time to run 60 dungeons. How long would you spend running lvl 60 dungeons before moving on to Outlands now?
I hit 60 shortly after BC came out and didn't buy BC until I hit 60. I've run ST plenty of times, BRD plenty of times, LBRS once, Scholomance once. Now that I have BC I've done Ramparts a few times and Blood Furnace once. What point is there to run other 10 or so lvl 60 dungeons? I would like to experience those dungeons.
There is always the thrill of running 20 or 40 man dungeons with 5 or 10 people I guess.
John Mar 8th 2007 5:41PM
I am having the same issue that poster #7 has.
I hit 60 with my main the weekend before BC was released. I did ZG once to down panther, a few scholo's and thats it.
Metaphyzxx Mar 8th 2007 5:54PM
#15
I guess that's the point. How long would a 60 run those dungeons, only to go to the BC content and get better gear on ez quests.
Something's gotta be done, even if it's a "pick up a drop off such-and-such a monster to do heroic mode" elsewhere...
There's going to be a LOT of people that never see some of this content that Blizz spent a lot of time working on.