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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPushing the limits of a class trinity
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 12th 2007 at 12:09PM
Relmstein is at it again, this time with a look at class trinity in MMORPGs. This is old, old RPG strategy stuff-- basically almost every RPG out there is based around three different class roles: that of tank, DPS or healing. Tanks (like Warriors and Fighters) take damage, DPS classes (like Mage and Rogue) dish the damage out, and healing classes (obviously) keep the party alive long enough to win the battle. For a while now, game developers have tried to vary up this class trinity, so that you don't just have the same options in every game. In WoW, hybrid classes like Paladin and Shaman can play more than one role, and classes like Hunters and Warlocks have extra abilities (crowd control and buffing/debuffing) that help them be something more than what the class trinity lays out for them. Or there are classes like Druids, who can play all three roles at various times.But the problem here is that while there are some extra abilities floating around, there aren't any new class types to speak of. The reason for this in WoW is because the developers want to give every class the option to go all the way to 70 solo, which means classes that could be total crowd control classes, like Hunters, are forced back into one of the class trinity roles (in this case, DPS). So far, we haven't seen a really pure crowd control class-- at least not like we've seen pure tanking, pure healing, or pure DPS classes.
So let's put our minds to it. What kinds of classes could we make that would do something fundamentally different from tanking, healing, or damage?
Relmstein comes up with the great idea of a "Threatmaster" class-- kind of a whole class that revolves around the Hunter's Misdirection ability. That person could direct aggro from monsters whereever they wanted it to go-- if the healer pulled aggro, you'd have the Threatmaster just point it back at the tank, or if there was no tank, the Threatmaster could push it around to different players, and bounce the mob between them. To carry Relmstein's great idea to the solo game, a Threatmaster class could even turn mobs against each other-- he could use their abilities and damage to supplement his own.
For my own idea, I'd suggest a time-based class. All of the classes now revolve around controlling something that affects every player in the game-- life, mana, or the ability to take either away. But there's something else that affects all players, and that's time. Blizzard has already played around a little bit with this in Outland-- Haste and Slow abilities are making a more solid appearance. But a "Timebender" could be a class that could control time flow-- not just speed players up or slow mobs down, but record a certain reading on a players' health, and then restore that reading at a later time, or reverse a spell and send it back at the mob that casted it.
In truth, we're messing with the primary rules of roleplaying games here-- the reason almost every game has a Fighter, a Caster, and a Healer class is because those roles work so well together. But originality is always welcome, especially in the world of gaming. Is the class trinity holy, or is there room for more roles in roleplaying?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Classes, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
braydn Mar 12th 2007 10:00PM
Ok, the trinity is really hard to break for obvious reasons. classes can only really do three things in the game which are 1- damage against others (DPS), 2- reducing damage for self and others (healing), and 3- damage management (tank/threat, crowd control, kiting, resurrection, survivability etc).
I think that a more involved crowd control class would be awesome because it really does not exist yet in a major way for any of the current classes. The solution to this is to add a "monk" class. This monk class would be dealing with threat management, crowd control, and party/raid enhancement.
For PVE, the main damage done by a monk would be to use his own spirit/ghost to attack, or possess one mob and control it to do the fighting. the monk would go into a meditative state and would stay in the same spot doing nothing, gaining no threat at all and can take no damage whatsoever in this state. While in the meditative state the monk’s spirit would emerge from his body and can either fight mobs or possess one of the mobs (spirit would enter the mob's body) and that act would create tons of threat for the spirit or the possessed mob. The spirit or possessed mob would take all damage and would not affect the monk in any way, still sitting in his same spot. While the spirit or possessed mob fights, the monk can not move at all, but he can cast a very long range DoT spell (he would have like 10 different DoTs) on the mob he is fighting. The monk could wear a combo of all the armor types, but can not wear all one type, for instance, he could wear cloth, leather, and mail, but would have to choose 3 cloth, 3 leather, and 2 mail items at any one time. The monk is forbidden to use any weapons for violent acts, but can defend himself with his bare hands. Therefore he could not use any weapons but could equip off hand items instead to get extra stats.
The monk would have a health bar and a meditation bar. Once the meditation is gone, his spirit would disappear or the possessed mob would no longer be controlled, at which point the monk would gain all threat. since the monk does not engage in physical violence with weapons, he would have several options to deal with the threat, either 1- escaping (acrobatics), or 2- defend with hand to hand blocks (martial arts), or 3-symbiosis (to be explained later).
Escaping through acrobatics could be like this…say you used your meditation to pull your spirit from your body and attacked a mob, but then they come after you and meditation breaks. The mob comes after you and starts to beat you up, and you do some cool back flips (sorta like mage blink) and you put some distance between you and the mob. Or you could do a canon ball roll toward the mob and it does a knockdown that immobilizes the mob for 10 sec, giving you time to run away. Or you could jump over the mob and get it in a headlock, etc….any of these escape tactics do some initial damage and then DoT over 10 sec. So as you escape you are not only kiting a mob, but also damaging it and controlling it as well.
Hand to hand defense would be more straight forward. If a mob came at you, can do direct damage by doing defensive blocks to protect yourself, but this deals damage to the mob when you block, say 50% of each hit to you will reflect back to the mob.
Symbiosis is similar to the meditation but can be used in two ways. 1- Symbiosis does not require the mediation state and does not use the monk’s summoned spirit. It does create a “link” between the monk and the mob and the direct mind link does the damage over time, and lowers the mob’s stats and damage and everything by 50%, during this time the monk can not fight or move and has to just take the hits, unless a tank comes along and grabs aggro. This link would not cause any threat at all but would only last say 20 secs. 2- Symbiosis not only works against mobs, but can be performed on a party or raid member, which would give a 50% increase to all the person’s stats abilities buffs etc for 20 sec. Once again, the monk can not fight during the duration of the link, but if attacked receives 50% less damage and shares damage with the linkee. This would really help in raids, especially with a monk performing symbiosis on a tank, or on a priest, or on a mage, etc….so think of it like this, the symbiosis with a raid or party member is sort of like making the linkee the hero level ability because of the insane increase the monk could give while linked to the party/raid member. Also in this way, the monk can literally protect one person side by side. So in review, this symbiosis can be used to either 1-severely hinder a mob, or 2-severely boost a party or raid member.
So obviously, the talent trees for the monk would deal with the three main abilities, 1-possession, 2-escape, and 3-symbiosis. Putting points into possession would give things like increased time to posses, increases meditation state (power and length of time), increased possession damage, increased chance to critically possess a mob, crit chance to DoTs, etc….putting points into escape would increase the crit chance of initial blocking damage, increased time for knockdown incapacitation, increased distance to back flip, etc…putting points into symbiosis would increase time linked, increase the damage or boost to mob or friendly unit, etc….
one other cool thing about monks is that their minds are so finely tuned that they could learn and use any type of damage (frost, fire, arcane, shadow, light, poison, etc…) the part of their spirit that they summon could be either of the DoT damage types, the monk could start out with nature damage and learn a new type at each 10 level (10, 20, 30 etc). also, the spirit could be used to not attack and just scout like the eye of kilrogg or like a rogue stealthing, etc…I just think the monk could be a super fun class to play because it is the truest support role (other than a priest which really main thing they do is to heal), this role being one of hindering the mobs or boosting one of your party or raid members, it is mostly a complete DoT fighter, has crowd control and threat control abilities by the escapes he has, and can last very long without dying due to being able to wear multiple types of armor at the same time and taking no damage while in the meditative state or in the symbiotic state (with party or raid member, not mob).
What do you guys think?
Samidare Mar 15th 2007 12:17PM
Like Skiba said, enchanters...
It was the class I loved the most out of everquest. It was class that had the ability to do great things...but also die the fastest. It had balance and it rounded out a group well.
What we lacked in raw power compared to mages and necros(mages and warlocks in wow)we had the ability to augment the melee, increase everyones mana regen, had the ability to crowd control that would put sheeping and sapping to shame. While I never casted one nuke... the things I did as an enchanter saved groups and raids from wiping horribly. It was a truely powerful class, without being overpowered.
You lived and died by your ability. And it felt great.
I wish wow had the class.. and not just a watered down version of it.
And just riding on what someone said about shamans and eq.. i would go nuts if my shammy in wow could cani. I would gladly exchange my health for mana. /sigh. there are times when I miss that old game. ,.
Todd Mar 12th 2007 4:52PM
@Jim
"Mages are DPS plus buff"
Huh? Mages don't buff. Mages have one spell which is useful to buff, Arcane Intellect (Arcane Brilliance), which can also be mimicked through the use of food, scrolls, or potions.
The other other "buff" considering would be Dampen or Amplify, but those are rarely used due to the added affects to healing. Situational spells which do not fall under the same realm as buffs.
Mages are DPS plus crowd control, and with Frost talents, added crowd control. That's about it.
Rick Mar 13th 2007 7:18PM
I've always like the idea of another pet class that used steam-powered robots for pets. In kind of the same vein as Warmachine.
The character would be the equivalent of a warcaster from that game. However, you would have to take engineering and the robot pet (warjack) would be totally customizable with Engineering stuff. As characters get better (maybe through talents) you would be able to control multiple bots (warjacks)
Jim Mar 12th 2007 6:31PM
"Huh? Mages don't buff. Mages have one spell which is useful to buff, Arcane Intellect (Arcane Brilliance)"
I'm gonna assume that you had a brainfart and that you are normally able to read.
Are AI and AB buffs? Yes. Do mages therefore buff? Yes. Did I mention CC at all? No. Is CC relevant to my thesis? No. Does your comment refute in any way my statement that all classes buff? No.
It is generally useful to respond to what people write and not what you think that they should have written.
Pritchard Mar 12th 2007 6:42PM
@40
DPS plus buff. Meaning one buff. And that is AI. That is a buff. Believe me, in a raid, when a mana user doesn't have it on them, I hear it.
Jim did not say buffs. He said buff.
And I laughed when you said it can be mimicked through scrolls, food, and potions.
Do show me the +40 intellect food, scroll or potion. I'd love to see it.
Skier Mar 12th 2007 7:22PM
Really, there isn't even a trinity. It is basically a binary situation. If you kill something quicker than it kills you, you win. Otherwise, you lose. Tanking and healing both counter-act the opponent's attempts to kill you, so they are functionally the same. The main difference is that tanking prevents damage as its happening where healing repairs it after the fact.
So in these situations, if you aren't keeping people alive or causing damage you would essentially be out of the action. Sometimes it's boring when you are right in the action, I can't imagine how much fun a non-action role would be on your 100th MC run.
Sinabyss Mar 13th 2007 10:27AM
The Monk –
Every class has a role however, even the best group can fall apart when then situation gets really hairy. Everyone has probably hit the Sheep’d mob or wondered in to a roaming group to swarm your party or have the Mob break Sap just as you think you have control over the pull. Enter the Monk; the only class that could turn a miss-step into some fun, although hectic, action.
The Monk class focused on flashy Martial Arts attacks and self-only Heals allowing solo game play however; the true power lies in the Monk’s group dynamic. As the party is attacked by multiple mobs the Monk’s specific group-abilities become active:
+1 Mobs = The Monk stops attacking and summons a large Dragon illusion that will draw the attention of the Targeted mob’s (preferably a Boss) next special attack which would destroy the illusion but absorb the special attack but at the cost of the Monk’s HP/Mana.
+2 Mobs = The Monk can perform devastating Tornado Kicks that bounces from one mob to the other (wont break Sap/Sheep/etc…).
+3 Mobs = The Monk can perform a Stunning Blow that strikes all surrounding mobs and ends with a Leg Sweep that trips the mobs.
+4 Mobs = The Monk can Challenge one attacking taking 100% agro but massively increasing his defensive abilities the effect is broken with any damage to the Mob.
+5 Mobs = The Monk stops attacking and summons an Ice Dragon that casts Ice Breath to knock-back the attackers and freeze them for 3sec (wont break Sap/Sheep/etc…).
Or something to that effect…
Ngnsewa Mar 12th 2007 7:33PM
Maybe hero classes (if we ever see them) will change 1 class into a more 'pure' version of, say, one of the 3 talent trees.
Easy example would be mages, hero classes would be
Frost mage, Fire mage and arcane mage.
Tho I guess that would be the easy way to do hero classes. Lets hope Bliz have something better up the collective sleeves. I DO think that hero classes are more likely that a new class.
Odas Mar 12th 2007 7:13PM
I haven't played any MMO's besides WoW, so forgive me if this idea isn't unique. But instead of talking about just a different type of class, why not talk about a different type of faction?
What if you could be a neutral faction that focuses on trade? Your XP isn't earned solely by kills, but also by how much trade you do with the other factions. (Haven't put a ton of thought on how it would work w/the economy, but it seems feasible). Based on which quests you chose, or where you choose to PvP, you would eventually build report with one faction or the other. Eventually, as you reach high levels, you would A) be aligned mainly with one faction or the other and B) capable of creating items that are highly saught-after and valuable to helping that faction.
Player classes within that faction could be more supportive than front-line. But could include the "battle engineer" idea that has been brought up. Perhaps you can create cannons/long range weapons and traps that you deploy and operate from the back lines. Perhaps you can create mechanical mounts that players can actually do battle while mounted on.
Factions/guilds would desire to recruit you because those abilities and creations would play a very unique role in PvP and group quests. In order to recruit you, they can help you on quests that align you with their faction (and generate a threat level against the opposing faction), and purchase your wares which in turn helps you earn XP and get closer to aligning with their faction.
I dunno. Just a brainstorm. I think it has legs.
Freehugz Mar 12th 2007 7:36PM
With jewelcrafting being put in the game I think engineering needs to be taken out as a profession and made as its own class. With the ability to repair gear and use all sorts of contraptions for various things. They would, of course have to craft all the items they use. Probably crafted for free (like mage water) but with a limit on how many they can use, and a cooldown on more powerful items.
Keith Mar 12th 2007 8:42PM
How about a Melee Debuff specialist? From a lore standpoint, call it a monk or a ninja or a wrestler or whatever the hell you want, but the basic idea is a melee fighter which, while lacking the DPS of a rogue or tanking of a warrior, has a variety of skills to reduce the capabilities of their foes, either debilitating so that even the Debuffer can finish them off, or bouncing from foe to foe weakening them so hat rogues and mages can do their jobs and finish things faster, or so that the tanks don't take quite so much of a bruising.
Such a class might inherit some Rogue skills (some poisons abilities, expose armor, Feint, garrotte, maybe even stealth or sap), but wouldn't have the outright damage ability of a rogue. They'd inherit some of a good hunters threat management portfolio, but not enough to never take a hit. Being a melee class seperatates things from the Warlock which relies on a pet to tank/DPS and debuffs to enhance the pets abilities.
Muraenidae Mar 12th 2007 8:51PM
WoW is essentially limited in the respect of class roles because Blizzard has decided that every class must be capable of PvP, PvE, and raiding in some form or spec. This means that combat is the central emphasis for every class- there can be no 'crafter' classes, no 'builder' classes, no researchers or social facilitators or pure reconnaissance figures or any of the classes that would break up this self-imposed restriction. It's like complaining that soccer is limited because you can only be a goalie, defender, midfielder, or a forward, or that baseball is essentially limited because you can only be a catcher, pitcher, batter, etc.
If Blizzard really wanted to break out of that trinity, they would've made environment much more important. For example, if they included a fast-flowing river in the middle of certain instances too dangerous for normal characters to swim, then you'd need a druid to swim across and then send a rope back or an engineer to pop out an extend-a-bridge, etc. You would then need a 'bridger' role to successfully complete those types of instances. Yes, it's artificial to a degree, but no more so than the goalie in soccer being the only person allowed to use their hands. Instead, WoW has a simple environment and complex combat, and the 'puzzles' that usually occur out of combat- 'how to cross a bridge', 'what mix of herbs makes the best reliable healing potion', etc.- instead occur in raids: How do you survive Core Hounds? What's the best 5-man composition for Arcatraz? WoW just isn't going to be your source of hot new class innovation- that'll be Blizzard's next MMO. ;)
Daniel Turner Mar 12th 2007 11:40PM
braydn - Sounds great. I think a monk or some type of possession class has a ton of potential, and you've described a bunch of interesting ideas for instantiating it. I think WoW could fit your class in easily for the next expansion.
Other ideas I have, which would inspire ppl to buy the next expansion, are pure classes and pure hybrid classes. What I mean is, a class you roll where you choose your specialty going in, like fire mage (call it evoker, who cares, but make it special), that has more fire abilities than your average mage but no possibility of changing to another specialty. Pure hybrid type classes they could add would be more of a challenge to advanced players by having abilities that are powerful only in combination, but more powerful than pure class abilities in such a combo.
Doug Mar 12th 2007 11:57PM
In a game where characters incinerate, maul, execute, mangle, steal other's souls and summon demons from the void, i have absolutely NO DESIRE to play a character that sings a song or plays a harp, lyre, pan flute, or any other musical instrument.
Those effects could be implemented in other means. Maybe a hypnotist class? not sure
processed Mar 13th 2007 4:48AM
Seem's like every class just needs one new talent tree, with a little rearranging of the old ones.
Galipan Mar 13th 2007 7:05AM
IMO the class trinity can't be changed much. I agree with #11. Why try to make new types of classes when Blizz can work on those that already exist? I like the whole idea of Hero Classes, where a classes role is no longer determined by it's spec, but by what they play. Now, THERE we would have some diversity. A warrior can now actually be DPS, and a Shaman could be main healer with no problems. We would diversify ourselves and there would be LOTS of support shamans, and crazy DPS provided by "marks" hunters and "arcane" Hero-magi.
Sal Mar 13th 2007 8:06AM
So far 51 is the only well-rounded idea. A sole buffing class is a terrible, terrible idea. Can you imaging levelling it? Solo grinding faction rep? These ideas have to actually fit into WoW. Plus the shaman and paladin are two classes that do shine when in groups. When you think of these ideas remember that they need three trees and at least forty spells or abilities.
A mindfart:
An illusionist class. Leather caster concept, mild-moderate arcane damage, heavy cc and utility abilities, temporary pets. At the expense of a reagent can become the mirror image of the mob its attacking for a short period and use those abilities, provided it's not a boss or something outrageous.
Three trees: Illusion (utility), trickery (survival), phantasm (damage)
Chris Mar 13th 2007 8:52AM
City of Heroes had a healer class (radiation defender) whose had a fairly weak PBAOE heal, but rather relyed on debuffing the mobs. Any party had to be aware of how this worked (anchoring an AOE debuff on a mob which had to die last to keep the debuff up). Rad defender debuffs also stacked which made a team made up of only rad defenders hugely powerful.
Gridneo Mar 13th 2007 9:17AM
I'd almost forgotten about some of the utility of the many classes in the EQ-type worlds... Brigades and Mages (I think) had group Invisibility, but doubt we'll ever see something like that... Running to the bottom of an instance with your group Invisible would be a nice touch (Sol Eye had a few mobs that could see through the invisibilty toward the bottom)...
I like the Monk stuff, but still like the original Timeturner/Warper/whatever idea...