More dev feedback for Hunters
by Eliah Hecht 
Mar 13th 2007 at 12:56PM
Yay! That same old Hunter feedback thread in the European forums has been hit up again with some developer love. Before I get into it, I'd like to warn you that almost all the responses are either "the Devs see what you mean, but have no idea when/how/if it'll be fixed" or "the Devs see what you mean, but it's working as intended." This week they focused mostly on pet concerns, which is what they skipped last week. Here's a summary of the more interesting responses:
- Pet survivabilty: "Quite possible" that this might improve, but devs have to avoid making pets overpowered in PvP.
- Encounters un-pet-friendly: We see what you mean, and might improve in the future.
- Certain stats (e.g. crit, hit rating) don't help your pet, making gear with them less attractive: This is intended, but might change in the future.
- It's impossible to tell who out of multiple targets resists your FD: Devs agree, and would like to see it ifixed; no ETA.
- Pet kills don't count for player kills (for Rapid Killing, for instance) even when the player has tagged the mob: Fixed for 2.1.
- Growl scales by RAP, often giving MM Hunters better Growl threat than BM Hunters: Devs agree, but "no information available regarding what they will do to address this concern."
- Hunters' role endgame: DPS class, with utility as a bonus. "Hunters compare quite well to other DPS classes, but possibly a bit low, however this is something that is being looked at. Things will get adjusted here and there where required."
- People going through ammo too fast: Devs agree, considering what to do about it.
Hi everybody,
We have received some more developer feedback for you this week, which is only a great thing. This means that we should now have answers and feedback for pretty much all of the questions and concerns compiled by Lactose of Talnivarr in the original post of this thread:
Q u o t e:
3. Pets
a) How well a pet-focused build handles itself falls heavily on the shoulders of the pet. However, pets are a part of the Hunter class, regardless of build. While the stat scaling is a good start, I don't think it's enough in many cases. Are there plans on adding more survivability to pets? Either directly, by immunity to certain attacks (mostly PvE), avoidance, or more indirectly shared healing with the hunter, etc?
It is quite possible that the developers will improve the survivability of pets, but they have concerns regarding how increased pet survivability will influence PvP. The developers are very careful about adding too much to survivability, as they do not wish for the pets to be overpowered in PvP.
Q u o t e:
b) Related to encounter design, and more of a plea: Please remember our pets when designing encounters. Not only in terms of buffs given in the encounter, but also debuffs, healing, and, maybe more importantly, survivability. As it stands, several bosses have been downright pet-killers - especially devastating for a Beast Mastery Hunter, but noticable for any spec.
These are valid concerns and this might be something that the developers will improve on.
Q u o t e:
c) Pets do not seem to gain anything from items giving the master Crit rating, Hit rating, etc. This seems counterintuitive to a degree, seeing as a item with higher item level and better stats could actually prove to be a downgrade when you consider what your pet gains as well. Intended?
Yes it is intended; however the developers are keeping an eye on this, so this might be changed in the future.
Q u o t e:
d) Pet buffs. Would it be possible to let pets either be counted together with other pets, or together with warriors / rogues for Greater Blessings? As it is, they have to be individually buffed.
This might be possible, the developers will look into this.
Q u o t e:
e) The character stat screen has received a overhaul, becoming much more detailed and useful (although the Hit section doesn't include anything regarding Hit gained from pure +Hit%, like talents). Would a similar revamp of the pet stat screen be possible?
This is also possible and the developers will look into this as well. Still too early to say what patch it would get into however.
Q u o t e:
g) It's hard (impossible) to keep track of a pet's loyalty progress. Anything planned to make this less shrouded in mystery?
This is a valid concern. There are no immediate plans as of yet, however this could certainly use improvement.
Q u o t e:
4. Abilities and game mechanics
a) Kill Command
Currenly, Kill Command triggers the global cooldown, and has other grievances, making its use seem more limiting than it should be, at least for non-Beastmastery Hunters. It also seems to be counted as a player attack for most things, not a pet attack (not triggering Frenzy, etc). Bugged?
This is working as intended as it is the player sending a "kill command" to the pet. The developers do agree that the ability tends to feel more like it should be a pet ability though, so they can understand the nature of this complaint.
Q u o t e:
c) Feign Death
I After recent changes, resists are checked individually per target. However, if one target out of many resists, we have no way of knowing who resisted and who did not. Having for example a "Resist" appear in the scrolling combat text above the appropriate target would help a lot with identifying the 'resistees'. Messages in the combat log might also be an option, although more prone to spam, and not too good on multiple targets with identical names (often a problem with a boss' adds).
II Any news on when we can anticipate the fix for Feign Death?
The developers agree that this is an issue and they would very much like to see this fixed, however it is not yet possible to say exactly when it will be done.
Q u o t e:
d) Pets currently do not count toward a player's kill (for things like Rapid Killing, trinkets requiring a kill...), even when the player has tagged the mob (i.e. pet not staying on aggressive auto-killing). As a pet class, this seems counter-intuitive. Intentional?
This is already being fixed, and it is expected to be implemented together with patch 2.1.
Q u o t e:
e) Growl
Growl's threat now scales based on the Hunter's Ranged Attack Power. Due to Marksman Hunters having so high an amount of Ranged Attack Power, Beast Mastery pets often aren't able to keep up with the aggro generated. This seems counter-intuitive, possibly have deeper talents of Beast Mastery yield a bonus to Growl threat?
The developers thinks that this is valid feedback, however there is no information available regarding what they will do to address this concern.
Q u o t e:
5. Scaling, other classes and other concerns
a) Where do the developers see hunters in end-game? As a DPS class with other abilities and roles as an addition? How do we compare to other DPS classes, equally geared, in terms of DPS? What can we offer which makes us stand out and a vital part of any balanced group?
The developers see the Hunter class as being a DPS class, which brings other utility abilities with them as an additional benefit. Hunters compare quite well to other DPS classes, but possibly a bit low, however this is something that is being looked at. Things will get adjusted here and there where required.
Q u o t e:
b) Certain parts of the hunter still seem to have no (or limited) scaling: Traps, Mend Pet, stings and ammo. As we hit the level cap, can we expect these aspects to scale upwards as the hunter becomes more powerful?
It is possible that this will happen, however the developers do think that the significance of these things are somewhat questionable.
Q u o t e:
c) Related to ammo, having both more shots available, and faster weapons being much more viable than pre-2.0.1, the amount of ammo you can have in a quiver / ammo pouch seems to deplete too fast. Will there be bigger quivers / ammo pouches, or possibly allowing ammo to stack a bit higher to compensate?
This is a valid concern and the developers are considering what to do about this.
That is all we have for now folks. We will of course keep you posted when we receive more information from the developers.
And one last thing for now; please click on the link below in case you missed the developer feedback from last week:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=113941397&sid=1&pageNo=10#192
Filed under: Hunter, News items
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jeff Mar 13th 2007 1:12PM
Speaking of Hunter, I think there's a bug concerning the HP of our pet, Seems like my party member always see my Pet full of hp, even when he's near death.
Anyone experiencing the same bug ?
James Mar 13th 2007 1:14PM
In regard to pet survival in PvP--um, when is that a concern? Granted, I have not PvP'ed in AV or Eye of the Storm, but in WSG and AB, you never, ever focus on the pet. Kill the hunter. The pet, assuming its not a caster class, will likely have higher hp and armor than the hunter, so its fruitless to attack the pet.
There are rare exceptions to this--in WSG hunters can send their pets in to the flag room or against the flag carrier. A adequate defense in either case can usually locate the hunter and kill them. Adding more armor and/or stamina to pets should not have much effect on PvP from what I have seen, unless the noobs are trying to attack the pet, which, as I've said, is kind of pointless. Now, if you increase the pet's attack power or crit strike chances, that is another matter.
Lostmimic Mar 13th 2007 1:14PM
"Pet survivability: "Quite possible" that this might improve, but devs have to avoid making pets overpowered in PvP."
They obviously never faced a BM spec hunter in arena, pet should add to hunter dps/survivability, not be a sixth man.
And I love that hunters have gotten 2 sets of dev feedback while many other classes have never seen one.
Priests are the red haired step child of wow.
But ill never stop playing mine -_-'
James Mar 13th 2007 1:15PM
Yes, I've seen that bug too. My wife's pet will show full hp, then promptly fall over dead. This doesn't exactly help pet survivability in raids since the healer, assuming it is the rare healer that will heal pets, won't be able to see the pet is in trouble.
Lostmimic Mar 13th 2007 1:15PM
@1 thats a mod not working up to snuff, tell them to get the latest AG_Unitframes, those work fine.
Jeff Mar 13th 2007 1:17PM
@4 Good, thought it was maybe a Mod I installed, but seems like the retail version (not modded) has the bug too... Hope they fix it soon, I'm BM and my pet Often Tank Tusker or in Ring of blood, so its very big problem atm...
James Mar 13th 2007 1:24PM
I would defer to #5 on this one. I'm using CT_Mod--so it could very well be a mod problem and not an inherit bug in WoW.
@3 Good point on Arena. I had not considered that, and given the team configurations, a BM hunter that is getting healed and so therefore cannot be killed quickly would be a real pain in the ass.
Rudi Mar 13th 2007 1:30PM
Possibly a bit low as a DPS class? I hope they're talking about the Hunter's repair bill. :P
Ryan Mar 13th 2007 1:38PM
Just get rid of all hunters, make them reroll something useful. I'm so sick of BM hunters in instances bitching about healers not keeping their pet up.
Todd Mar 13th 2007 1:40PM
Hah hah hah. Typical responses from the Blizzard development team. They have no real answers to give, or are willing to give, and nobody wants to take the blame. Aside from responding to give people hope, I don't know why the Blues bother to respond when they have no real answers to give.
spencerhowarddma Mar 13th 2007 1:59PM
I agree that with the new Feign Death mechanics, it would really help to know who resisted. Other than that, I find it hard to believe that any of these complaints are real problems. My 62 BM hunter's DPS is almost embarassingly high, and my pets are tough as nails. I've even seen groups spamming the channels with something like "LF1M for HFC, need tank or BM hunter."
And the most unbelievable whine in all of this: ammo. It's very rare that 3200 rounds is not enough, and if you know you are going into a long instance and think you might run out, take a few extra stacks in your regular bags. Your bags should be mostly empty anyway for gathering loot. Then move the ammo over to the ammo pouch/quiver as you burn through it.
Savok Mar 13th 2007 1:59PM
As a hunter, I'm pretty sure my pet could tank God at this point.
Most of those complaints are bullshit, a BM pet is doing so much damage a slightly weaker Growl means buggerall.
Ammo is a problem though, sure 3-4k bullets/arrows sounds like a lot, but you'd be shocked at how quickly you burn through them, then it's drop whatever you're doing and go make/buy some more ammo. Thorium Arrows being an especially big pain having to go back to IF everytime you need them. Simplest solution is just increase the stack size, 300, 400, god even 500, though that may be going overboard.
Savok Mar 13th 2007 1:59PM
As a hunter, I'm pretty sure my pet could tank God at this point.
Most of those complaints are bullshit, a BM pet is doing so much damage a slightly weaker Growl means buggerall.
Ammo is a problem though, sure 3-4k bullets/arrows sounds like a lot, but you'd be shocked at how quickly you burn through them, then it's drop whatever you're doing and go make/buy some more ammo. Thorium Arrows being an especially big pain having to go back to IF everytime you need them. Simplest solution is just increase the stack size, 300, 400, god even 500, though that may be going overboard.
Karl Mar 13th 2007 2:24PM
"It's impossible to tell who out of multiple targets resists your FD: Devs agree, and would like to see it ifixed; no ETA. "
Going out on a limb here, but wouldn't it be the ones still coming after you? Who care which ones resisted. It still means I get to see another hunter scream and run. All fun for me!
SymetriX Mar 13th 2007 2:36PM
Boy I'm sure glad the devs are spending all this time on the Hunter forums. Lord knows nobody plays Hunters these days because they're sooo underpowered, right? I mean, it's like a mass exodus, you hardly ever see any hunter players anymore and in battlegrounds they hardly do any damage.
/sarcasm
Chawkwinter Mar 14th 2007 8:37AM
WOW
now if we can get a guy to come to the shaman boards and talk about enchacment spec damage mitigation life would be grand
chugchug Mar 13th 2007 2:48PM
@15
yeah seriously.
Samidare Mar 15th 2007 12:17PM
Even as a hunter I am suprised they are getting so much attention as of late. And I agree most of the complaints are weak. Hunters are not underpowered. Most of the issues are from bad players to rolled the class de jour, back when they added on to the beast tree (which was then changed a bit later on).
I know some of the mechanics are not working like they should be. But its a common theme to ALL classes. Let me know which class isn't broken in some form or fashion. I would learn to deal with it, and hope it gets fixed eventually. Although I would like to see them add an endless quiver type deal instead of ammo in general.
Side note, if a hunter is complaining about their pet dying...and its not the designated tank/offtank. Put the damn thing away, learn how to use distracting shot or use that little mend pet button. Besides if they need your pet to tank and won't keep it healed. You need a new group.
Hakaisha/earthen ring
Nemdok Mar 18th 2007 3:10PM
Requesting rogue buff...
Request denied
>Retry
Pritchard Mar 13th 2007 4:48PM
Well it honestly doesn't appear they are spending any time looking at Huntards.
They pretty much went down the list and said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...all good ideas. No idea when/if they will ever see the light of day.
The responses given sound like the kind of answers one gives to questions to make someone shut up and go away. Oh well.