The vicious race for Primal Nether
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Mar 23rd 2007 at 10:24AM
Primal Nether is one of the items on nearly every crafter's most wanted list. This primal is used in 77 tailoring, leatherworking and blacksmithing recipes, including most of the BOE epic gear available and the blacksmith's upgradable weapons. (And apparently one boot enchant. Woo!) However, Primal Nether is a bind-on-pickup item that's hard to farm. It has a small chance to drop off the last boss during normal level 70 instances, and a 100 percent chance to drop during the last boss of heroic modes.
As you may imagine, this has caused some problems for people with hard-to-find BOE recipes. The crafter has to farm the primal nether themselves, even if they have people who are willing to buy their items and supply the rest of the mats. This does let the crafter charge exorbitant prices for their items, but it's hard on the leatherworker/tailor who wants to make cheap armor for their friends or guildmates, particularly since they may be rolling against five other people for the one primal nether drop in the heroic instance they're running.
As a leatherworker friend of mine said, "I have three recipes and like 15 people waiting in line for the items. Getting heroics for one is a pain, and they don't drop that frequently in normal." It's also tough for people who want to have their items crafted for them, because they'll be standing at the back of my friend's 15-person line and probably paying a hefty surcharge for her time.
So what to do? Making primal nethers BOE would make them the new Pristine Hide of the Beast -- everyone would roll on them just to make some extra cash in the AH. My leatherworking pal suggested that the Nethers should also have a 30 to 50 percent chance to drop off of other bosses in Heroic mode instances, so they'd still be tough to get but not as dependent on five people who all want one item making it to the end of an instance without ripping each other's throats out. Another possibility would be to use Primal Nether as an enchanting-like item. You could trade all your mats to the crafter, they could craft a "unforged" or "unsewn" item, and you could use your own soulbound Primal Nether on the item in the "Do Not Trade" window to make it into your epic. Or, of course, it could be fine the way it is.
Have you had trouble getting Primal Nethers, or are you enjoying the new mechanic? As an alchemist, I personally don't know too much about them -- I just pass and let the crafters fight it out.
Filed under: Blacksmithing, Leatherworking, Tailoring, Enchanting, Items, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Gitr Mar 23rd 2007 10:39AM
As a 351 Tailor pushing for 375, keeping it BoP certainly is a reason to keep shooting for getting keyed for instances at 70 rather than resting on my profession's laurels and taking my time. If the items being made with a BoP mat are BoE, it really seems like an interesting dynamic/mechanic for Blizard to have chosen.
mity Mar 23rd 2007 11:05AM
nah, i like it the way it is. if ppl cant b bothered to work for it, why should they get uber gear?
or uber cash?
lvl a craft, get yr skills and gear and go run heroic a few times, and u will eventually stack up the nethers. its not all that hard, but its hard enough to make it balanced with the rewards atm.
if its BoE, ah-players will get amazing gear by buying gold only. im happy, no, elated, to see that not being an option.
we(my g m8's)roll on nethers if we need them. i dont atm, so i pass for our MT who still needs a few.
after which, ill roll need for m8's, that arent in the run, but need gear (boe) for guildprogress.
in a few months ill prob b selling some of it, to outsiders. by then, all crafters will be doing that, and its fair then too.
Randomdruid Mar 23rd 2007 2:27PM
I wish I could just buy it in the AH, I'd be willing to pay 1000g-1200g for the 3 I need. For my Windhawk Armor set.
Granddad Mar 23rd 2007 12:59PM
Personally I'm very glad Blizz chose to handle nethers and BoP crafted items this way. By and large the items that require nethers to craft are of excellent quality and IMO should be difficult (or expensive) to obtain.
Case in point: the priest community widely feels that the 3 piece Primal Mooncloth set + 2 piece Whitemend Wisdom set surpasses tier 4 in quality and is on-par or arguably better than tier 5 for healing. I think it's great that these items are available to non-raiders but at a high price. You gotta work for your loot one way or another. It also adds diversity and choice to what gear people choose to use and is an excellent reward for those who leveled a crafting profession when so many people opt to take two gathering professions for the high income.
And it's fun! Frustrating at times, yes, but there's also a real sense of accomplishment when you manage to get some of this stuff.
Zuuler Mar 23rd 2007 11:19AM
Make it a transmute, with a high mat cost of course. Maybe a transmute that requires primal might, primal fire, primal air, primal water, and primal earth all as mats. Then make primal nether BoE and the transmute on a very long cooldown. The increase in supply of primal nether will decrease its value, and the high cost of mats and time required to make them will keep the price high enough that these crafted items won't become the new trend.
Todd Mar 23rd 2007 11:27AM
I was one of two people rolling on a Primal Nether drop from Heroic Steam Vaults. I wanted to make a tailored helm for a fellow guild mate. The other person rolling, a fellow guild mate Hunter, was rolling saying that he "needed" it. He won. Afterwards he said in group chat, "Turns out I don't need this afterall. Who wants it?"
I immediately turned on him and told him what an idiot he is, that the nether is BoP (what a noob), and that he can now vendor the drop. What a waste to something that could have been useful to someone.
I hate fuckers who roll on shit because they think they need to roll on shit.
Orin Mar 23rd 2007 11:30AM
I am a dual crafter, Tailor and Leatherworker. I like the Primal Nether being BoP.
1. It makes my time more valuable to other people. Guildmates want me to craft something? Great, they can help me get a group going for a heroic instance.
2. It helps me actually earn some decent gold for crafting items. Most crafted items to not sell well, or at all. I've made plenty of gold on the few recipes that make items people use, armor kits, thread, etc. But overall most recipes were just learned so I can get more skill points by making it...
3. It actually forces people to earn the gear they use.
Sylythn Mar 23rd 2007 11:38AM
@3 - I'm not sure which would be worse - spending ages farming the materials, or spending ages to transmute the materials. I recall a set of Mooncloth Pants that I farmed Timbermaw rep for. After I gathered all the mats/felcloth - they took 16 days to make the mooncloth. 2 days later, I got an upgrade as a drop.
I think I'd rather spend a month farming the darn things and still be able to use them than risk that again.
Zuuler Mar 23rd 2007 11:47AM
Thats why I said make them non-BoP so they can be sold on the AH. This would allow you to purchase the necessary primal nethers and not have to spend a month transmuting them. Make the transmute a high mat cost and a long cooldown to prevent the AH from being completely flooded with them, which would diminish the price. This would allow some people, such as the one above who has 2 crafting professions, to not have to lvl alchemy in order to also make the high lvl crafted items.
Karl Mar 23rd 2007 11:52AM
I like the BoP Nether, and the rare drop rate as well. Keep the 100% on heroic, as that is earning it. I do wish that it didn't take so many to craft the Blacksmithing weapons though.
I will say that this method is kind of what keeps crafted items worth making. Some of the best weapons in the game are crafted (BoP crafted). The same for armor. It offers the player a sense of accomplishment to be able to do this. Also, it isn't nearly as difficult as some of the past recipes that required 10,000 arcanite bars just for a sword that is obsolete in Outlands.
I think Blizzard should consider the use of Primal Nether and other BoP mats to upgrade some of the old UBER weapons that you really had to work hard to get. Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker took a LOT of effort on the guild''s part to make a superior weapon. Why not create some recipes that would allow them to be upgraded to new weapons in Outland. Same for Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros and maybe even toss something in there for those who got Quel'Serrar. This could easily be used to add a few more quests to the game.
Todd Mar 23rd 2007 12:02PM
I suspsect that this will be the new Ninja loot.
Karl Mar 23rd 2007 12:08PM
Tony....Breathe...relax...find your inner happy spot.
LOL. J/K
I think most people agree with what you are trying to say. I don't really see anyone wishing to make the crafted items easier to make. The OP was just asking if it was too much of a pain to obtain the Nethers. Should someone tell the Devs to make Nether drop more often in Heroics? My sword will require 12 Nethers. Lets say that I have a great 5 man group I play with all the time and we each share the drop that the last boss and divy it up evenly each time. 5x12=60. That would mean I need to run the instance 60 times to make my sword. Granted, it's not that bad for me (and I already have my first one from a Normal instance boss).
Anyways, I don't think many people are actually thinking we need an easy road on it (Watch a poster say otherwise while I've been typing LOL).
zarmy Mar 23rd 2007 12:21PM
What they should do is start having primal nethers have a chance to drop off in Karazhan and Gruuls lair. About 99% of those runs right now are guild runsand as such it would be easier to get them if they dropped, plus its kinda weird that raid instnaces don't have a chance to drop them but a 5 man heroic does
Ehrgeiz Mar 23rd 2007 12:23PM
@4 Wow I would have been so SO pissed off at that guy, did the jackass do anything to make up for screwing you and the guildie over?
Karl Mar 23rd 2007 12:35PM
@12...Zarmy
Good point. Raid instances should offer drops as well. It is a little strange that 5-man runs do. Although, you will be seeing Nether Vortex drops in (we think) Tempest Keep. That is the next higher version for Primal Nether as crafting goes.
Todd Mar 23rd 2007 12:39PM
@Ehrgeiz
Nope. Luckily the guild leader was also in the party, and he just sorta smoothed it over. Probably for the best. However, I'm sure we all here have been in groups before in which we get the distinct vibe from someone that they're just greedy and adolescent. Emphasis on greedy. The same Hunter was also asking me for my Coilfang Armaments throughout the whole run. I picked up 9, he picked up 1.
Todd Mar 23rd 2007 12:41PM
Would be nice if gear from Heroic instances could at least be DE'ed into Primal Nethers. Now granted, this would bind the nethers to the DE'er, but this could still be a viable option for any enchanters too.
Zuuler Mar 23rd 2007 12:43PM
This is just another example of the game rewarding people based on time spent playing. If you have all the time in the world, you end up with the best gear. Those who don't have the time to run a heroic 20 times to get the primal nether are left out. The gear gap widens as the casual players are left behind and the players who do nothing else get the good gear.
Oh well, makes it all the more enjoyable when I (casual player) kill a raid geared player in AV, then I know they only got where they were because of the time spent instead of actual skill.
Endante Mar 23rd 2007 12:47PM
Look I understand the thought that these should be extreemly difficult to aquire (and I mean spend three to five hours to get 1)
And I have soloed most of my way to 65. I have not run any raids and dont really want to divirce my jhob or my wife to get that kind of game time and practice. These should be available as world drops at some insaley rar drop rate. (0.1% or less -ie 1 in 1000 kills) to allow those of us that do not have large practiced raiding guilds to achieve these levels of crafting.
Dont make it easy on me, just make it possible.
Hub Mar 23rd 2007 3:23PM
I think the reason is Blizz wants to make crafted sets that's pretty good for people that don't want to or can't raid. The farming an instance for a primal nether is the same as farming a raid instance for drops.