Breakfast Topic: Pick your poisons
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 28th 2007 at 8:59AM
Today's Breakfast Topic is going to be rogues only, but heck, we all know there's tons of you out there. The question comes from Quill: What poisons do you use? Of course, it depends on your spec to a certain extent, and even moreso on your situation. Personally, my rogue is PvP specced, and so when I'm in battlegrounds or doing world PvP I usually run with, as Quill says, Wound and Crippling Poison (one halves healing on the target, while the other slows enemies down). Mind-numbing is also nice to slow casters down. Some rogues will say they use Deadly, but since I'm a stunlocker, I stay away from any DoTs while PvPing.
Soloing, I just run with Instant on both daggers, but mostly because it's cheapest and lets me hit hard while stunlocking. In instances, I usually can't keep a mob stunned long before someone hits it, so I'll use Deadly and something else depending on what's needed (running mobs get Crippling, casters get Mind-numbing, etc.).
But my rogue is my alt, and I'm sure plenty of you have rogue mains-- I haven't done much theorycrafting on it, and I'm sure you all have. What poisons do you use when and why?
Filed under: Rogue, Tips, How-tos, Breakfast Topics, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Twinny Mar 28th 2007 9:08AM
as a warlock i can honestly say that mind-numbing is just annoying!
vyskol Apr 4th 2007 10:39AM
Crippling is a must for PvP; so much so that I put it on my main hand. Off-hand gets Instant. I find that the fights are so quick, most spells being cast are instants, and there's not that much healing going on, wound the mind numbing don't seem all that useful. More than anything else, I want to max out my dps and take down my target as quick as possible.
PvE, I run much the same as you. Crippling on my off-hand if I'm fighting runners. Rarely use Deadly since I don't like it messing up my stuns. Mind-numbing on a caster mob. Though I'm typically too cheap and lazy to switch poisons and often just run around with Instant and Crippling regardless.
Tsel Mar 28th 2007 10:03AM
Scotch.
masterpat Mar 28th 2007 9:22AM
Depends on the Situation Im in just like you mentioned. For soloing I tend to use Instant MH and Deadly OH for envenom since I have a fast offhand. Im combat spec'd so I'm more about sustained damage than burst. Instances I usually go Crippling MH and Mind Numbing off for those caster mobs. And in PVP I usually sometimes dont even bother with poisons since it changes so much and it just can waste poison.
John Mar 28th 2007 9:50AM
Great topic - I try to carry a stack of as many different kinds as I can. Poisons are so easy to level up (skill point wise), and really aren't TOO expensive to make (at level 40 at least), so I like to have options. I'm PvE and I tend to be a little ADD as far as choosing what I'm going to do next, so I switch up depending on the mobs I'm fighting and where I'm going.
Never thought of having a different one MH and OH. Duh. Good idea.
cynthias Mar 28th 2007 9:51AM
Deadly poison on both daggers most of the time, switching to Crippling on MH in areas with runners. Mutilate specc'd. I'm not a game-mechanics wonk (too old to tax my remaining brain cells with the kind of math required), so I chose them purely because they seemed to work the best for me. Like the mutilate/dagger spec.
Skibba Mar 28th 2007 9:54AM
PvE Instance. Deadly MH & OH. Im Mutilate build so I regen combo points very quickly so I want deadly stacked at 5 as often as possible so that I can throw in envenom as often as possible whilst keeping SnD up all the time.
PvE Solo. Im still not 100% on the best method here but at the moment I will either do the same as above, or Deadly MH & Instant OH so I can use shiv if need be and fire off some quick dmg, but im thinking crippling offhand might be useful for soloing tougher mobs. I.e. shiv twice for a couple of combo points and crippling, run away, bandage, go back in kidney shot, pwned!!!
PvP. Crippling & either mind numbing or wound for the ability to run out restealth and come back in and stun again. Deadly poisons mess with stunlocking. But it does mean using eviscerate instead of envenom when pvping. Not so bad again clothies but definatly notice the difference on plate wearers.
Zorrg Mar 28th 2007 10:42AM
I'm assassin mutilate, and usually work with Instant/Crippling or Crippling/Mind-numbing when I solo. In 5 man groups I always try to go with Deadly, but if there isn't much CC, I might choose Crippling/Mind-numbing again to better OT and stunlock. In raids I use nothing but double Deadly or double Wound, depending on the encounter. At first I was sceptical about the Envenom skill, but I love it now. I still think Skiv needs a bit of a boost, but it's nice to have if you really got to get the poison on quickly.
chugchug Mar 28th 2007 10:14AM
i have a 70 assassin spec rogue, with mutilate. So poisons are heavily important in my build for the mutilate DPS. Mainhand will always have a durational poison, if you get my drift.
Here is how i usually go:
PvP or easy grinding where i dont need full out DPS, but in case i run into horde.
-Crippling on mainhand, Instapoison on off.
Dungeon/Raid for full DPS annihilation
-Deadly Poison on main hand, Instapoison on off
Never use wound poisoning, or mindnumbing. Why? I dish out so much DPS that it pretty much negates any heals or casts that would take on effect.
Bradley Nash Mar 28th 2007 10:34AM
@6 - lol
Wartooth Mar 28th 2007 1:28PM
You say you try to stay away from DoT poisons in PVP, but doesn't Wound Poison do damage over time as well?
also, i use Deadly on main hand and instant on the other, Assassination Mutilate build.
robodex Mar 28th 2007 11:23AM
Combat dagger spec, generally depending on what we're doing I'll either go instant/instant, instant/mind numbing or wound/mind numbing. Generally don't go crippling in raid because the tanks don't like it (if they have to move a mob fast) or mobs are immune to it, making it useless.
Hank Mar 28th 2007 11:42AM
I always went with deadly/instant, with deadly/crippling for places with runners and PvP. I spec'd mostly Assasination (31) but with 13 in combat and 17 in subtlety. I always put cripple on the OH, because even with a slow weapon, I can use Shiv to apply it. (Sometimes I'll run dagger/sword). I usually solo with daggers, but will use swords in instances and against elementals. I only started using wound poison when it was changed to put out damage as well as reduce the healing. I'm going to try Anestetic poison in ym next instance run because it says it doesn't increase threat, and I have issues with stealing aggro from the tank.
chugchug Mar 28th 2007 12:28PM
forgot to add.. another reason why i don't waste time with mind-poisoning is that i'm always on top of my kicks, gouges, and kidneys to interrupt our casting friends... so i usually see no point in wasting a bag slot for another poison. and if my chance i miss and get dotted? Just hit the ol' Cloak of Shadows button ftw.
Rich Mar 28th 2007 12:59PM
I usually use instant mh/crippling oh for soloing. In instances its anesthetic mh/crippling oh except for certain mobs; for bosses it's always deadly mh.
AS far as envenom goes, why does anyone use this? Using the calculator at http://pvp.net.tf/ I can't find any talent/skill combo where envenom does as much dps as eviscerate.
Kahja Mar 28th 2007 11:26AM
Your poisons make me laugh.
Malachai Mar 28th 2007 1:52PM
Spec: 19/2/40 (Assasination/Hermmorage build)
PvE/Raids: I use instant on MH and deadly on OH, and hit Shiv often to apply the DOT. I've tried instant on both hands but don't seem to get as much damage (then again, I haven't tried this since learning Shiv). Never thought about Wound or Mind-numbing poisons in PvE, but they make sense, depending on the mob being fought. I don't think crippling is worth it (considering I could have another poison applied) because I take down my mobs fast and can plan kidney shot to finish them off.
PvP: Mind-numbing is my friend! Before shiv, I would apply it to both weapons just to make sure it gets applied. After shiv, I put mind-numbing on my OH and Wound on my main. Warlocks and Mages are actually beatable one-on-one with mind-numbing and some minor stun locking / kicking. Don't bother with crippling unless there's a high number of rogues on the opposing faction. Slowing down rogues is just fun.
Chris Mar 28th 2007 2:49PM
Mutilate specced dagger rogue here. PvE solo I'll usually go Deadly on both weapons unless there's a chance of a runner in which case crippling on the OH.
I like to try and get/keep 5 doses up as much as possible for the huge Envenoms.
Same in instances really, though I've been known to use Wound poison on the odd self-healer.
AdamC Mar 28th 2007 1:33PM
@14 I don't know much about that calculator, but I can tell you that Evis is affected by armor, whereas Envenom is a poison attack, and damage cannot be mitigated by armor. So lets say you are fighting even a leather wearer, with 15-20% damage reduction. Your envenom now does more damage than Evis. This difference is even bigger when you are fighting the plate wearers. Sure, Evis may be better against anything naked or cloth, but I can kill those so easily, they rarely get past my KS and mutilates.
Rich Mar 28th 2007 1:51PM
@16, um...ya how could I have forgotten armor mitigation? I b a dumbass sometimes.