Top guilds want Blizzard to take out the trash
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Mar 29th 2007 at 9:41AM
There's been a low-level murmur for weeks in the Raids and Dungeons forum about the amount of trash in Serpentshrine Cavern. Words like "nightmare", "soul-destroying", and "worse than Twin Emps-C'thun trash" were bandied about. The problem wasn't just the amount of trash, but the respawn time -- with 45-minute respawns, guilds were literally watching trash respawn behind them as they cleared. And as more guilds check into early Tempest Keep, they're finding the same situation.
This week, the wave finally crested, with members of Death and Taxes, Curse, and other top guilds arguing that the trash situation has become unbearable. Selected comments from the threads follow:
- Guass of Ret, Mal'Ganis: "I personally enjoy when trash respawns in the middle of a boss fight because it isn't linked to anything. It's things like this which make me feel like I wasn't meant to be raiding this zone yet ... nor was anyone else."
- Marolla of Crimson, Greymane: "Since typically one dungeon is being started while another is released, I can only assume that the crew that did MC, AQ40 and SSC is a bunch of sadists and needs to be burned at the stake. Please let the crew that did BWL and Naxx be in charge of all hiring decisions from this point forward."
- Mek, raid leader of Curse, Vek'linash-EU: "Trash should be killed once in a night of tries on a boss. Fine, it respawns on a soft reset or a 6 hour timer, but not this garbage we have now. If you do not fix this you are eventually going to kill off high-end raiding because we just do not want to do this anymore."
- Cherrie of Death and Taxes, Korgath: "I personally love hours upon hours of trash. I especially enjoy having to kill it multiple times because the respawn is so quick. I enjoy it ALMOST as much as fighting untuned bosses. THE SARCASM, IT'S OVERWHELMING!"
- Plastique of Death and Taxes, Korgath: "As much as I know you need us to play-test all of these new instances, we might not volunteer for it anymore since it's threatening our sanity ... please don't release Black Temple. It's too soon." (Italics added for emphasis.)
- And finally, Clockwork of the reformed Overrated, Korgath, wins the thread and the entire internet with: "Wow, what a bunch of whiners. Stop crying and just clear the trash, OK?"
I haven't seen much of 25-man raiding in TBC beyond what a rogue, a mage, and a quick portal to Shattrath can show you, but the trash situation sounds like it's really wearing on the top guilds. When a member of Death and Taxes asks Blizzard NOT to release new content, something is not right. It also looks like there's near-universal hatred of the trash clears, inasmuch as every guild that's posted in these threads has decried them.
Have you seen the trash in SSC and Tempest Keep? Does it sound excessive to you, or is multiple trash clears the price you pay for being on the cutting edge?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Endure Mar 29th 2007 10:14AM
I'm Marolla's guild, the second quote of the bunch. I'd like to stress that the guild as a whole does not feel this way. Marolla speaks for himself.
As a guild, our official stance is that we love trash. We want more trash. In fact, Bedsheets has detailed beautifully what we want from Blizzard in future content patches.
We want trash while we are fighting bosses. We want trash on shorter respawn timers. We should have to fight trash as soon as we zone in. No buffing time. No time to group up.
We should have to fight trash when entering Shattrath, Ironforge, etc. We should have to fight several trash packs to get to the bank.
Opening the bank should require a trash pack.
Trading something with someone should spawn trash. Going to the mailbox: trash.
Crafting an item: Trash.
Gathering a resource: Trash. In fact, it should spawn several trash packs that all chain local mobs.
Mounting: Trash.
Logging onto the game should require you to fight trash to make sure you are worthy.
PvP should include trash. So should Arenas.
Moving from one location to another should spawn trash mobs.
Casting a spell should spawn trash.
We feel these changes would enhance the game of World of Warcraft, and provide hours and hours of pure enjoyment.
P.S. When we feel it's ready, we will post our suggestions regarding trash as it applies to hardcore players.
Twinny Mar 29th 2007 9:58AM
the trash in kara is just as bad, the run up to moroes is insane, 3-4 good attempts then its "oh f*ck not more trash" smoke,repair,pee,go afk for 20 mins. ok its all back now lets try again.
Trash as a delaying ploy (you cant just run in and kill the bosses you have to earn it) granted is a nice idea but the 30-45 min respawn times is just stupid. the trash can be more challenging at times than the bosses!
chris Mar 31st 2007 4:19PM
the trash situation truly is horrible every time you want to retry a boss, say lady vashj you have to kill EVERY DAMN TRASH MOB, this is all just a huge time sink that is entirely to time consuming, for this one reason i had to give up raiding with D&T and actually quit WoW, it's all just a huge time sink and it's not fun anymore, Blizzard has gone a bit to far, they've made a game a chore, it's just not fun anymore
Marlus Mar 29th 2007 9:59AM
and you dont have to be in the top end guilds of the moment... low/middle level guilds lost more time cleaning a bunch of trash to get in the boss, them wipe and what? you have to clear all the way again...
the weird in all this... there is 5men instances with higher respawn time of trashes than the 10/25 men...
crsh Mar 29th 2007 10:28AM
The trash in Kara is nothing if you've ever experienced the painful trash leading up to C'thun after the Twin Emps are down (the major difference is that this trash didn't respawn until the weekly reset if you wiped on C'thun).
Nah, I don't mean to sound like an elitist jerk; the trash in Kara is not easy, but it's not that bad. Yeah they can hit like a truck, have AoE, and what not; they remind me of the trash in the deathknight wing of Naxx. Not a big pain once you get the hang of it, just a little time consuming.
We're now in SSC yet (let alone TK), but reading these reports just reminds how Blizz makes things impossible to slow guilds down because they don't have new content ready yet, it's totally done on purpose. Once Black Temple is out, it'll be impossible, so we can all just normally progress in SSC and TK without risking our sanity.
Drakar24 Mar 29th 2007 10:18AM
Agree with #1. The bosses are supposed to be the hard part, but with the relase of TBC I've been finding it's often easier to kill the boss than it is the trash.
Although, in their defense, Blizzard are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They put in a lot of trash and unbeatable bosses because if they didn't, D&T and the other high end guilds would be burning through this stuff and crying where's the new stuff. Oh, well, hopefully it's all straightened out by the time my guild gets there.
crsh Mar 29th 2007 1:35PM
Typo: We're *not* in SSC yet.
Twinny Mar 29th 2007 10:32AM
Making annoying trash to slow down the likes of DnT is only going to piss them off more as they arent getting as much productivity out of their time.
where they could be attempting bosses over and over they're forced to clear trash, this is their rant and i was merely saying the lower 70 raids too have shitty trash respawn timers.
"we might not volunteer for it anymore since it's threatening our sanity"
im sure ya wont, im sure ya wont strut around in your new found epix after blizz nerfs the raid boss for you to kill it, im sure ya wont act like elitest c*nts on your forums to questions asked by the average joe.
Diode Mar 29th 2007 11:59AM
I have no issue with clearing trash, but when they respawn behind you like in Karazhan while you are working your way up because it's on such a short timer, that just sucks.
Todd Mar 29th 2007 10:57AM
Wow, if the top tier raiding guilds (who, I must admit, have a long resume of world firsts) are complaining about the insane respawn times of this instance than this place must really make the effort unbearable.
Meg Mar 29th 2007 11:10AM
After running Gruul last night with my guild just for giggles (we really are NOT prepared for it...but we wanted to do something together for old times sake) I can definatly see how trash can get on people's nerves. The trash in there is on a 1 hour respawn. So after a few tries on the boss, we had more mobs to deal with. It was definatly frustrating for some of us.
bluebottleblues Mar 29th 2007 11:08AM
The trash in karazhan isn't paticulary hard (But thoes skeletal Ushers must use hax) just the irritating short respawn time makes it painful. You cannot expect 10 people to sit for 5hrs without having to eat, pee, get a drink, have a break and do what ever. After the Curator the trash is just painful to clear. Trash between Curator and Shade of Aran takes so long to clear in the first place (magic-immune mob packs ftw) they still have equally short clearing time. You can only fit in 2 attempts at the most of the boss.
BWL was well designed (Except supression room. Once you fight to the boss, the trash should stay dead). Very little trash compaired to MC that came before. The trash tended to stay dead for a long time. BWL was reletively "small". The Bosses were close together.
I still have nightmares of clearing the Trash from Garr's room and to Sulfaron's room in MC. Ninja pulls... people dying, need to be ressed up, people going afk... Z Z Z Z Z
TwhiT Mar 29th 2007 12:14PM
i wonder if a grp of 5 rogues all w/ imp sap would be amaz-a-ing ^_^
Twinny Mar 29th 2007 12:17PM
@11 not if they get 2 shotted each by skeletal ushers.
Sonic Mar 29th 2007 12:28PM
"And finally, Clockwork of the reformed Overrated, Korgath, wins the thread and the entire internet with: "Wow, what a bunch of whiners. Stop crying and just clear the trash, OK?"
LAWL. WTB wall hax.
Siedre Mar 29th 2007 12:47PM
I can see the benefit of having trash respawn to slow down progression. BC has only been out a few months; honestly I don't understand why they're releasing Black Temple so soon. Despite enjoying being level 70 after a mere few weeks, I think Blizzard is letting things hit the top far too quickly. Where's the pve game challenge then?
However I don't understand why they allow trash to respawn after you've engaged a boss. That's just wrong, and happened to us during Moroes on our learning runs.
Clementure Mar 29th 2007 1:42PM
Endure: FTW!
LOL
dread Mar 29th 2007 2:31PM
Heroic trash follows much the same order as others were discussing. The trash pulls being the most difficult part then 1shotting bosses. It makes absolutely no sense.
aaron Mar 29th 2007 4:24PM
one of the big things that bothers me about trash is how much of it is "optional"... like.. the vast majority of the ballroom is empty. You kill a few packs, sneak around the 20 other packs and then kill the boss. Totally pointless.
Elizabeth Wachowski Mar 29th 2007 3:52PM
Endure, that was just awesome.