Build Shop: Priest 35/5/21

Talents in trouble again? Must be Tuesday! Welcome back to Build Shop, where we look at reader-submitted talent builds. This week's build comes courtesy of Hamacus on Sen'jin, and it's an unconventional sort of Priest DPS build, which is why I picked it -- after last week, I wanted something a bit unusual. Hamacus neglected to inform me as to his goals with the build (shame!) so I made some educated guesses. There's no kill count or arena teams on his Armory page, which means he has less than 1337 honor kills, and he skipped the common PvP talent Martyrdom, so I figured PvE is his focus. On the other hand, he does have full Blackout, so I could be wrong. More on that later. He's a Priest, so it's obviously not a solo build. That leaves group PvE.
35/5/21. Why does that look odd? Oh yes, it's because nobody ever specs between 5 and 31 points in Shadow: people tend to either put 5 in Spirit Tap for leveling/soloing, or at least 31 for Shadowform (SF). SF is such a tree-defining talent that it's often held up as an example for the other trees (as in "please make our other 31-point talents this good"). For the uninitiated, for one point, SF lets you raise your Shadow damage by 15% and decrease your physical damage taken by 15%. So why on earth would anyone want to skip it? In a word, versatility. When in SF, you can't cast any Holy spells, which of course includes all our heals (even Gift of the Naaru, the Draenei racial, in case you were wondering). And by not investing all those points in Shadow, this build is able to grab some general-purpose talents in the other trees.
So we've seen the big talent this build doesn't have: Shadowform. What does the build have? Well, the key points are Discipline down to Power Infusion and 4/5 Reflective Shield, including full Meditation and Divine Spirit (DS) with 1/2 Improved DS; Imp. Renew and Healing Focus in Holy; and Mind Flay and Silence in Shadow. Based on the wide variety of talents the build includes, I'm going to have to conclude that it's meant for a 5-man DPS/support build. I had a Paladin fill a similar role in Mechanar last night, and it went very well -- a"fifth man" is a lovely thing to have to fall back on. Let's move on and see how the talents shake out.
5/5 Wand Spec is a great choice to start out with. While it may seem weak at first, the opposite talent -- Unbreakable Will -- actually hurts your character. Why? It gives stun, fear, and silence resistance. With 5/5 Unbreakable Will, there's a decent chance that an AoE fear will hit everyone except you, and then the mob will automatically attack you. Not fun; I'd rather be feared. The next tier in Discipline is always an annoying one to get past, since most of the talents in it suck. A lot. Silent Resolve is the usual point sink for healing priests, but seeing as how it was recently nerfed not to affect Shadow, I would skip it with a shadow-damage build, as Hamacus has done. That leaves Imp. Power Word: Fortitude, Imp. Power Word: Shield, and Martyrdom. Martyrdom is a great PvP talent, since it procs from being crit, but in PvE one doesn't tend to get crit very often at all. Therefore, for a PvE build, as, again, I'm assuming this to be, skipping it and (regretfully) filling in Imp. Fort and Imp. PW:S is probably the right move.
Moving down Disc, finally we get some great talents. Inner Focus is a free spell every three minutes, and Meditation is godly for mana regeneration. In fact, Medi is so strong that many people consider 14 points in Discipline "required" for Priest builds, much like the Arcane tree used to be for Mages before their talent review. Next comes Mental Agility; 10% mana off all instants is nothing to scoff at. I'm not sure what's up with the Improved Inner Fire (IIF), though. With max-rank IF, IIF gives you an extra 474 armor, which translates to something like a 3% decrease in physical damage taken, or 1% per point. While this almost looks like it meets my 1% benchmark, it doesn't: Priests in five-mans take very little physical damage. The large majority of the damage a Priest (or any caster) takes is typically AoEs, volleys, bolts from untanked casters, and that sort of thing. That makes IIF a weak choice outside of PvP.
Next we have Mental Strength. 10% more mana is always a good thing. Divine Spirit is also nice, and Imp. DS is a good call for this build as a whole, since you gain spellpower for all your spells from it. Then comes an odd choice: Force of Will is skipped entirely. 1% spell damage and 1% spellcrit per point verges on imbalanced -- why skip this? I have no idea. Seeing that choice made me almost think this was a healing build, but there are very few healing talents in it, so I doubt it is. I would certainly find some way to spare points for FoW here. Anyway, we now reach the conclusion of the Disc part of this build: Power Infusion (PI) and Reflective Shield (RS). PI is a great support spell for all occasions, and if you're that far down in Disc there's no compelling reason not to grab it. RS? I'm a little split on it. It's obviously nice for PvP, especially battlegrounds where mana efficiency is typically not an issue (you're just trying to do as much as you can before you inevitably die). However, in PvE, I think PW:S is still a little too expensive to use outside of emergencies. But don't take my word on it -- let's run the numbers!
Top rank PW:S shields from 1315 damage and costs 600 mana. The Imp PW:S talent bumps that up by 15%. 4/5 Reflective Shield adds 40% of the amount shielded as damage, basically, assuming the shield doesn't expire. 5/5 Mental Agility reduces the cost by 10%. PW:S also gets 10% from +healing; let's say you have a 500 +damage/healing. So what's the total output? (1315*1.3+50) healing, and (1315*1.3+50)*0.40 damage, for 600*0.9 mana. That works out to 3.26 healed and 1.35 damage per mana. Let's compare to other spells. Flash Heal comes out to 5.01 hpm with the same setup, and Mind Flay is about 3.07 dpm (if I'm right about MF's +damage coefficient being 21%). So yes, PW:S is still pretty inefficient, but actually a lot less bad than I thought. I still wouldn't use it as a staple -- outside of PvP.
So much for Discipline. Holy in this build is just a brief segue between Disc and Shadow, but let's see what it's got. 2/2 Holy Concentration is great, and I wouldn't skip it for any build that expects to heal much: 70% interruption resist is a life-save, and it stacks with Paladins' Concentration Aura for 105%. 3/3 Imp Renew? OK, and clearly a better choice than Holy Specialization for a player that's not going to be either smite spamming or healing a ton. And even healing, Holy Spec is weak unless you have Inspiration (which I do recommend, but that's another topic). So if you're putting 5 in Holy with this build, those are the talents to go for. However, I wouldn't necessarily put those points in Holy at all; I think they could be better used elsewhere.
Shadow! The dark heart of the priest. And in this build, it starts off with a great big "um." As in, "um...why 3/5 Spirit Tap and 5/5 Blackout?" Spirit Tap (ST) is amazing for soloing, and useless elsewhere, since you have to get the killing blow to proc it. If you're soloing, you want 5/5 ST. If you're not, you might as well dump your points in Blackout; random stuns never hurt. Next, Imp SW:P is good: mana efficiency, basically, since it gives you two extra ticks for the same mana. Then we come to Mind Flay, which is incredible. More so when combined with later talents in Shadow, but still good untalented. Imp. Psychic Scream is needed for Silence, and decent on its own for PvP. And you still need to dump more points somewhere, so I suppose Imp. Mind Blast is a good place for them. MB, along with MF, is a shadow Priest's main nuke, and being able to cast it more often will help your DPS, especially now that it no longer causes extra threat.
Shadow Reach and Shadow Weaving are obvious choices. MF has a pathetically small range, and Shadow Reach makes that decent. Shadow Weaving is one of the talents that helps push shadow Priests' dps over the top, and it does it well, while helping Warlocks along the way. Bonus! In fact, it's so good that I would put more than 2/5 in it. And the endpoint of this tree is Silence. Great in PvP, nice in PvE as well -- it happens pretty frequently that I'm sitting on the back lines seeing a mob charge up some icky spell (Charged Fist was the most recent example, and Dalilah's self-heals), and being able to shut it down would be pleasant. 225 mana for Silence is almost certainly cheaper than cleaning up the pieces after a mob casts something nasty.
So that's the point-by-point critique. Zooming back out, I would have to say I'm on the fence about this build. I like that it points out how much of a damage/healing hybrid Priests can be, but to a certain extent it feels like it's spreading its points a little too thin Over all, I'd have to say this is a pretty messy build. What say I try to clean it up a bit?
- For a little more emphasis on DPS while still keeping the no-SF versatility that I think is the spirit of this build, I'd go for something like 29/2/30. You're getting some huge boosts to your Mind Flay both from Shadow talents and from Force of Will over in Disc. You lose PI and RS, but you gain the ever-lovely Vampiric Embrace, helping to keep your group topped off at all times. I cannot stress enough how fun it is to have a VE priest in your group. Plus, with VE, everything that helps damage helps heals as well, contributing even more to versatility and support. I also moved some points around near the top of some trees, and stripped the Imp. Renew from Holy since the deeper talents that I now had access to are far more attractive.
- Of course, you could always take the plunge and go for Shadowform. I don't think that's what was intended by the original build, and there's plenty of good Shadow builds out there, so I won't give one here, but it's an option to keep in mind.
- Finally, if you really want to keep PI and RS, 35/2/24 is a streamlined version of the original build, which basically trades Imp. Renew for VE and Imp. VE. VE will heal -- for free, basically -- far more than Imp. Renew ever will. If I misread all along and PvP was the original intention of the build (or a balance between PvP and PvE, which this build could actually excel at), this is probably what I would use, maybe moving some points in Disc over to Martyrdom.
Filed under: Priest, Analysis / Opinion, Features, Talents, Build Shop






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Xip Apr 10th 2007 8:26PM
I think the guy who sent that talent tree to you is an idiot. On the other hand kudos for the wall of text dedicated to it!
Matt Apr 10th 2007 8:19PM
Sen'jin represent!
Interesting build. I like this feature.
Mike Apr 10th 2007 8:40PM
When I first saw the spec, I thought the same thing. It's almost a half spec. Some parts are real weak for PvE healing, or dmg, and yet, it's not sufficient for Solo. It's also not good enough for PvP damage, or PvP Healing.
I guess I stand dumbfounded with the choice of point distribution. If you want to PvE Heal and have the option to PvE Damage, you might as well go with a 28/0/33 to get the most damage and healing (both healing in shadow and MH).
This was my main spec of PvE instances until I was told to go full holy for Raiding.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxT0zhxtbZZVGrz0tRht
Vermouth Apr 10th 2007 11:00PM
I'm partial to my 31/30/0 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVMhuhxtbzZfhtcc0VV build. I really can't see why you'd go with a build like this that's such a half baked build forgoing any real strength as opposed to 31-30-0, 10-0-41 or 21-40-0. Also I really, really don't like playing without divine fury--I remember the old 4 second greater heals and that wasn't fun but 2.5 is awesome
chimera Apr 11th 2007 6:09AM
1 point in imp DS?
3 points in spirit tap?
imp inner fire?
why reflective shield if he wants pve?
why blackout if he wants pve?
seriously, this is the worst priest build i've ever seen. bad for dps, bad for healing, bad for pvp, what's it good for?
Junzim Apr 12th 2007 8:48AM
I like people who try unorthodox speccs but I've got to say, I prefer the Spirit-Whore build for sheer hilarity.
Spirit Tap, Spiritual Guidance, Imp. Divine Spirit.
Kill someone, get +350 Spell Damage :)
Mats Apr 11th 2007 7:40AM
The Min/Max'er association and the Cookie Cutter Build league both agree, this is not a Approved Build.
chaz Apr 11th 2007 9:00AM
Build Shop ftw!
rufwork Apr 11th 2007 9:27AM
For the uninitiated, for one point, SF lets you raise your Shadow damage by 15% and decrease your physical damage taken by 15%. So why on earth would anyone want to skip it?
Okay, if this is an obvious grab, why do moonkin get the chaff? I don't have WoW with me currently, but worldofwar.net's armor calculator gives me this...
lvl 60 * 2000 armor: 26.67% reduction
lvl 60 * (2000 armor * 4 moonkin bonus): 59.26% reduction.
That's a huge dmg reduction... 32.59%!!
Damage increase for moonkin? Attack power up 150% of level, so 90 at 60? That's 90/14 = 6 more DPS while panzerkin-ing. Not great, but better than a kick in the face.
The real bonus? Well, you get 5% more crits, so that's (5% of 100% ==) 5% more damage for yourself alone. If you have another caster, that's 10%, give or take. Lucky enough to have three? There's your 15%, though not as reliably proc'd as SF.
I see shadow priests all the time. Why are they so popular and moonkin ain't? Is it as hard to find a place in a raid guild with a shadow spec as a balance spec?
Jamus Apr 11th 2007 10:07AM
Know any sites that have goal-specific builds listed AND are up to date with current patches?
Mainly looking for a few "go with X Priest build for Y-type scenario" builds. I use a Priest that typically solos and my DPS stinks!
Shiro Apr 11th 2007 9:40AM
Yeah, I remember playing around with a few builds like this one while I was leveling too.
My reasoning was that I couldn't ever just be in Shadow Form all the time. Most of the time I was running in a duo group with a warlock. So, I wasn't really the primary damage source for the group. My job was to drop a few shadow spells (and on non elites it was usually only a couple) and then be ready to heal if she needed it.
When you remove Shadow Form from the equation, then you're left with Silence as the next "big" talent in the tree. It allows you to pull 5-man stuff (at least pre-BC), so it became a must-have. I could never work out a full build that only went 21 into shadow though. I always ended up with a few extra points here or there, and I inevitably abandoned them before actually respeccing into them.
I keep wanting to try a Disc build, but I can't give up Shadow Weaving for my lock partner. :)
RizziNUp Apr 11th 2007 9:49AM
the main reason BOOMkins arent too popular in PvE is because they tend to pull aggro real, real, real fast. Unless you have a great tank, it's had to BOOMkin dps without taking aggro. They also don't have aggro reducing abilities.
/cry Apr 11th 2007 10:23AM
@11 ... lol you're a priest! /roll rogue 4 dps n00b.
Zequel Apr 11th 2007 10:31AM
Well innner focus isn't just a free spell. Its a free spell that keeps you out of the FSR which I noticed when I'm low on health is very useful when low on mana. If you're going to be a shadow priest, get SF and darkness - they're just too good to pass up, no other class can increase their damage by 25% with 6 talent points. And no VE?? No 5/5 spirit tap?? Silence is uber in PVP but not much use in PVE. Shadow priests shouldn't be pulling. Tanks and hunters should be.
Re: moonkin, moonkin have a nice buff but they are worse than shadow priests for the following reasons:
- Shadow priests constantly heal with VE, not only healing but regenerating party member's mana with Vampiric Touch or for pallies - +8% of the priest's VE healing is converted to mana as well, they also buff lock's shadow damage by 15% (max) Locks also get the added benefit of lifetapping for mana then getting healed with VE.
- They are less likely to pull aggro since they rely on constant damage as opposed to big crits.
- Can shield themselves or someone else in an emergency.
- Shadow priest have an aggro reduction talent, Moonkin don't.
-- Shadow priests are *much* less likely to go oom.
Mind Flay is sick when it comes to mana efficiency.
Moonkin can:
-- cast for big crits but their dps is not as high as other range dps'ers like mages/locks/hunters.
-- Survive a few hits more than a mage.
-- Have a good buff.
-- Pop out and backup heal - but shadow priests can do the same and will typically have a lot more mana when they do so.
Heymish Apr 11th 2007 10:44AM
Love these posts. Next week, how about some Shaman specs? My alt is a 25 Draenei Shaman, and I just don't know how to spec. I was thinking enhancement, but I had a lot of fun healing in a Deadmines run the other day. Just want to know how others think on the subject.
fatforprom Apr 11th 2007 12:48PM
Oh boy, where to begin.
Priest was my main from release to until TBC so I feel confident in saying this build sucks.
For a hybrid damage/healing build you're going to have a more luck going Disc/Holy with a focus on picking up damage talents and building +damage and crit gear.
for example http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVT0zhxtbtZfxx0frob
If you're going to put ANY points in shadow you may as well put 31 points into shadow. Hell, while you're at it go ahead and put 41 points into shadow. Why? You'll be doing yourself and your group more good using VE and more importantly VT than you would be tossing pitiful renews and pitiful Mind Blasts.
No, with 41 points in shadow you won't be main healing heroics any time soon but you will be called upon to dps and mind control in heroics. Seeing "LF Spriest Heroic UB" is not uncommon on my server. Sometimes I've had to ask the shadow priest switch gear to use renews and Prayer of Healing in certain boss fights but generally I'd rather him/her feeding me mana.
PS. Imp MB is bad. Useful only in pvp in all other circumstances your points are better spent elsewhere. The exact same goes for Shadow Power. I belong to the Old "Crit is worthless to shadow dps" School.
PPS. #11 it does not get any better for leveling
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVMrzhxZZEMMzMtRhtVo
Gigantor1960 Apr 11th 2007 1:11PM
Hi,
Thank you for posting my build. Very interesting observations and comments. As expected some don't seem to get the point that there is no ONE best build and a lot depends on play style (Note to cookie-cutters...LOL).
I do indeed do a lot of PVE 5-man in my guild and I am the primary healer on most runs. I also solo a lot as we are a "casual guild" but we are making slow but steady progress to Karazhan. I'm thinking about doing some PvP at this point as well. I know its not the best solo build but it allows me to do pretty well. In fact I take down most targets nearly as fast as when I was full Shadow, with the added benefit of a much greater Mana pool. I find this build gives me in survivability, flexibility, and adaptability in a number of situations.
I know ideally Priest could just lay back and not need to inflict or take much damage but in WoW World especially it seems in Outland most situations are not ideal. On a number of occasions specific talents spec's have allowed me to adapt and do things that a "traditional" Priest would not. Depending on our group makeup in instances there have been many situations where I am max healing and doing good DPS at the same time all the while avoiding the dreaded "OOM". Believe me its a nice option to have.
I have enough plus to healing gear that I rarely need to use Greater Heals due to cast time and unnecessary aggro it causes. I can usually spam a couple flash heals, use a renew which is instant cast and move on. Prayer of Mending is also a life saver. Improved Shield and Reflective shield is great to cast on Tanks as well as squishy Mages that tend to pull aggro. Especially during tough fights as it again increases survivability.
I also have three gear configurations. One for max crit/dmg, (offsets no force of will choice), one for max mana pool and mana per five for long fights, and one for plus to healing. Again flexibility. I've found that I have been able to gather gear to get the max effect for a specific need fairly easily. I may indeed take note and try to move a few point here or there. probably try it in Test Realm first though. I am always open minded and willing to adapt to the need in particular situation and I'm sure I will be making changes as we get closer to some higher level content. For now it works for me. Plus I can have the satisfaction of getting a kill now and then...after all its a game folks and its supposed to be fun. Thanks again for the thoughts and keep em coming.
Hamacus
Gigantor1960 Apr 11th 2007 1:10PM
Hi,
Thank you for posting my build. Very interesting observations and comments. As expected some don't seem to get the point that there is no ONE best build and a lot depends on play style (Note to cookie-cutters...LOL).
I do indeed do a lot of PVE 5-man in my guild and I am the primary healer on most runs. I also solo a lot as we are a "casual guild" but we are making slow but steady progress to Karazhan. I'm thinking about doing some PvP at this point as well. I know its not the best solo build but it allows me to do pretty well. In fact I take down most targets nearly as fast as when I was full Shadow, with the added benefit of a much greater Mana pool. I find this build gives me in survivability, flexibility, and adaptability in a number of situations.
I know ideally Priest could just lay back and not need to inflict or take much damage but in WoW World especially it seems in Outland most situations are not ideal. On a number of occasions specific talents spec's have allowed me to adapt and do things that a "traditional" Priest would not. Depending on our group makeup in instances there have been many situations where I am max healing and doing good DPS at the same time all the while avoiding the dreaded "OOM". Believe me its a nice option to have.
I have enough plus to healing gear that I rarely need to use Greater Heals due to cast time and unnecessary aggro it causes. I can usually spam a couple flash heals, use a renew which is instant cast and move on. Prayer of Mending is also a life saver. Improved Shield and Reflective shield is great to cast on Tanks as well as squishy Mages that tend to pull aggro. Especially during tough fights as it again increases survivability.
I also have three gear configurations. One for max crit/dmg, (offsets no force of will choice), one for max mana pool and mana per five for long fights, and one for plus to healing. Again flexibility. I've found that I have been able to gather gear to get the max effect for a specific need fairly easily. I may indeed take note and try to move a few point here or there. probably try it in Test Realm first though. I am always open minded and willing to adapt to the need in particular situation and I'm sure I will be making changes as we get closer to some higher level content. For now it works for me. Plus I can have the satisfaction of getting a kill now and then...after all its a game folks and its supposed to be fun. Thanks again for the thoughts and keep em coming.
Hamacus
fatforprom Apr 11th 2007 2:04PM
You're right. There is no ONE spec to rule them all. Especially for priests. But if you're looking for a spec that can heal as well as dps, you're barking up the wrong trees (PUN!) Right now you heal like you're shadow and dps like you're Holy.
I think you'll find a lot more success going heavy Disc with some Holy.
Also, I'd like to point out you're mistaken on a few things. Reflective shield causes no aggro (tooltip) and Greater Heal causes no more aggro than your Flash Heal spam. Granted, your threat generation will be more "spikey" using big heals, threat is only generated by the effective healing (not over-healing) and as far as I know there's no specific healing spell in the game that causes more threat than another.
You stand to gain a lot of efficiency using Gheal as opposed to flash heal on tanks. All it takes is some timing and a few talents.
You're obviously putting some thought into your talent choices. I think you need some more experimentation.
Hal Apr 12th 2007 12:44AM
one of my fave dps/healing all around specs i used to use for karazhan + pvp...
0/18/41 with 2 points leftover to throw where ever.
with the ammounts of +healing and spi on gear now... just having a faster, more efficient gheal does wonders for your efficiency when required to heal.
if your guild depends on you as a healer it's something you might look at. usually requires having another disc/holy priest so that one of you has DS and maybe imp. fort too.