Frostbite's shared diminishing returns are a bug
by Mike Schramm 
Apr 23rd 2007 at 11:53AM
There's been a lot of hemming and hawing on the mage forums about the upcoming changes to Frostbite-- the latest test notes revealed that the talent, which gives a chance to freeze anyone hit by a "chill effect" (that's Frostbolt, Cone of Cold, Ice and Frost Armor, and Improved Blizzard), will now be subject to diminishing returns in PvP.Which even mages agree is doable-- but their problem is that those diminishing returns are shared by other, controllable, freezing effects-- Frost Nova and the Water Elemental's Freeze. Basically, an accidental Frostbite proc, which can't be controlled by the player, could make the opponent immune to controlled freezes. And considering that Frostbite, when talented out, procs a lot, that puts a damper on regular frost mage abilities.
The good news, however, for mages is that the problem is being addressed. Tseric says that Frostbite's diminishing returns are meant to only affect itself, not other Freezing spells. They're working, he says, on fixing it.
Which is great (well, not so much for people fighting mages, but for mages it is). But this is the second big mage "change" we've seen on the PTR that turned out to be a bug. What's going on over there at Blizzard in the mage department?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Astros Apr 23rd 2007 12:02PM
i guess rouges arent owning mages hard enough, need more buffs for rouges and nerfs for mages...
should just make frost totally worthless and extend cloak of shadows by 30 seconds...that should fix everything.
Khelben Apr 23rd 2007 12:09PM
Wow less QQ more Pewpew? All classes in wow and subjected to dominate and get dominated by other classes. Do you qq about mages generally pwning of warriors? Or shadow priests generally beating down paladins?? Honestly get over it and l2play.
Brock Apr 23rd 2007 12:13PM
I've been wondering what's up at Blizz ever since the Conterspell see-saw. There were a lot of mages asking, "what were you thinking" when it was placed on the Global Cooldown only to have Blizz completely reverse it a month-and-a-half later. It just never made sense, and we were told it was for "consistency." And I don't want to get a worked up again over that nonsense.
It's just another point in a long list of questionable evolution of the mage class. Our Evocation, which we learned at lvl 20, gives me about half of my mana back; our mana gems do not scale properly with the mana pools of 60+ mages; and then there's Hypothermia. I an understand the argument against 2x iceblocks in Arena, but it's a viable strat in PvE encounters and almost necessary in fights against Rogues - aka "The Battle of the Cooldowns."
I'm happy the frostbite bug is acknowledged. Even as a mage I agree that it should have DR's, but it would literally break PvP frost mage builds if it messed with controlled roots.
But in all honesty, I'll be too busy running away from Rogues to care.
Ragbar Apr 23rd 2007 1:16PM
This is the correct way to address this issue. I was just debating with guildies last night who said it was "fair" for all these effects to share DRs.
I made the same argument as in the above post. Why punish a mage (DR leading up to immunity) for something he has no control over? While I agree that frostbite should have DR, allowing players to be immune to Frostnova due to Frostbite procs is just a bit too much. Mages would have been praying for NO frostbite procs during fights with Warriors and Rogues, haha.
Zorashi Apr 23rd 2007 1:33PM
I can understand the reason behind the icelance nerf.
I can understand the iceblock nerf even though at times it is a life saver.
But diminishing returns on our procs...?
This I find to be questionable.
Why take away the main power of ice which is crowd control???
I would maybe compensate this dimishing returns maybe with a longer slow time from the frostbolt or allow the icelance to possible proc the frostbite of course with a lower chance since you can insta cast it and what not.
Just a thought.
with the changes that they are making to ice seems like they are making them deal more damage with less control.
Todd Apr 23rd 2007 1:33PM
Wow, the very idea is one of the worst proposed by Blizzard. Frost Mages do half the damage a Fire Mage does, and the trade off is that Frost Mages have snaring and root effects. Now with this being limited, even in PvP, then where's the added benefit of having lower spell damage?
Pritchard Apr 23rd 2007 2:23PM
Half the damage of a fire mage? I think that's a bit exagerrated. A well-geared fire mage's fireball hits for what 1600/1700?
My frostbolts do not hit for 800. What am I, a furry warrior?
Brock Apr 23rd 2007 2:57PM
The acknowledged it as a bug, so there's no point in getting worked up over it - thank god.
I'd just like to see more attention on our badly-scaled mana gems and evocation.
I can deal with hypothermia and DR on Frostbite alone, but carrying around a set of spirit gear just for evocating is silly.
Delilah Apr 23rd 2007 7:48PM
Except he doesn't call it a bug. They are going to "change the effect." This sounds like "we listened to the mage community feedback about how putting all freezing effects on the same DR would break the frost tree for pvp, but we don't want to admit it, because to admit that we listened would admit that we really don't know what we're doing with the mage class at all, because we thought this was balanced."
Maybe I'm just cynical.
Pritchard Apr 23rd 2007 8:44PM
No Delilah, you sound about right on the money. If anyone needs further evidence of that, look no further than the Counterspell debacle.
They put up such a loud front on the forums on why CS should be on the Global Cooldown, only to do a 180 and put it back to how it was. I still just kinda shake my head and laugh at that. How embarassing. It truly makes them look like monkeys pushing buttons.
I'm just curious if all the "balancing" they are doing for the arenas (double Ice Block unbalanced? Funny...how long has IB and Cold Snap been in the game, and only now it is unbalanced?) will eventually just ruin the game for people.
If the next expansion isn't more than just an extension like this was...more grinds, more factions, more of the same...I think I will quit. That will be the test for me. Truly I will have seen all that the designers of this game are capable of showing me. Not that I'm sad, it would be just nice to know that if I left, I wouldn't be missing anything.