Why is the Horde suddenly so good at PVE?
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Apr 25th 2007 at 2:23PM
Pre-Burning Crusade, it was widely acknowledged that in general, the Alliance was superior in PVE and the Horde was superior in PVP. Aside from a few outstanding Horde guilds like Elitist Jerks and Nihilum that regularly got world firsts, the top 10 kill list of new bosses were usually dominated by Alliance guilds. Horde members constantly complained on the forums that the developers favored Alliance -- paladins got raidwide buffs, dwarf priests got fear ward, etc. Alliance fired back the same thing about shamans and War Stomp in PVP. But finally, in Burning Crusade, the Horde got paladins, the Alliance got shamans, and no one could really complain about anything. So what happened?
Well ... maybe the Horde did have something to complain about after all. Looking at WoWWiki's guild progression page, five Horde guilds and five Alliance guilds were in the top ten for killing Nightbane in Karazhan and Doom Lord Kazzak. But after that, things solidly shifted in favor of the Horde. Gruul: 6 out of 10 guilds are Horde. Magtheridon: 7 out of 10. Hydross the Unstable: 8 out of 10. The percentages shift, but Alliance has only caught up once, on Leotheras the Blind.
So what happened? Was the previous Alliance domination only a myth? I can't find any records of the top ten boss kills in AQ40 and Naxx, but I recall that there were far more Alliance than Horde at the time. I also recall many, many threads arguing about what advantages paladins had. The Horde gets paladins and the Alliance gets shamans, so everyone's equal, right? Apparently not. What mystical force is pushing the Horde ahead?
I asked a couple Horde stalwarts on my server, and they had some interesting ideas. Since the Hordeside is smaller than the Alliance on most servers, the Horde gets to know each other better as a community. We know who's good and who's bad, and guilds can recruit accordingly. And while the Horde who rerolled to paladins seemed to do it for PVE reasons -- "Hey, the guild needs a pally and I'd kind of like to heal for once" -- a lot of Alli shamans seem more PVP-focused. Or it could just be dumb luck that the Horde's ahead right now.
Why do you think Horde guilds have jumped to the fore of PVE post-Burning Crusade? Or is the whole thing just coincidence?
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, Analysis / Opinion, Ranking, Guilds, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Blaise Apr 25th 2007 2:35PM
I think it's because initially more people rolled alliance than horde. This meant that more alliance reached the endgame faster and more raids were formed. Thus there were necessarily more good endgame allies than horde. But over time we caught up to the alliance, and when BC came out, we got to 70 at aproximately the same rate, and our natural superiority shined through ;). We are more tightly packed and therefore better united and know eachother better. Also getting owned repeatedly leads to a certain measure of patriotism. you will never see people on alliance servers shout "for the alliance" at any point. FOR THE HORDE!
someone Apr 25th 2007 2:35PM
2 reasons:
1.Pallies. Not only getting the pallies, but since the horde has had to deal with the handicap of not having them for so long horde side is logically going to be better at PvE since they accomplished the same task at a "harder difficulty".
2.I know people like to argue this, but from what Ive seen it is true that there are simple more kids in the alliance than horde.
Josh Apr 25th 2007 2:37PM
I absolutely LOVE that picture!!! Where can i get a bigger copy with better resolution? And who made that?
Xorr Apr 25th 2007 2:37PM
Here's my theory: PvE was indeed harder for Horde side, so they had to develop their skills more. Now that things are equalized, they're pulling ahead because of the better base skill set that they developed.
It's like Olympic athletes that train with shotputs or javelins that are heavier than they will eventually use in competition. Once the handicap is taken away, they perform better than those who trained with the regular weight equipment.
All in all, competition is a good thing and hopefull Alliance will re-double their efforts to catch back up to Horde in PvE.
-Xorr
Predatorprime Apr 25th 2007 2:39PM
@2 I agree to a point. I think people rolled ally characters in the beginning and some are getting a little tired of their lvl 70's and want to see things from the horde side.
The PvE dominance varies from server to server, there are some that are completely dominated by Allys, and other by Horde. I think I just depends where you are.
James Apr 25th 2007 2:41PM
@1
Actually, kids are more likely to play Horde than Alliance. WowInsider actually has the statistics in one of their articles somewhere.
Ancalimon Apr 25th 2007 2:41PM
it could be because the horde gennerally is better at working as a team, or the face that a lot more alliance players are either new to the game or just young and dont know what they're doing, after a whiloe on the alliance, ppl tend to go to horde for the pvp rewards, i know a few that have, and once they get there and the rewards start to roll in, they never look back. i play alliance mainly, so dont think im all bout horde, i love the alliance, but the fact reamains that when it comes to grouping, horde is clearly the best. and now that the horde has the new pretty blood elves, theres no reason for the ppl that like the looks to stay on alliance, which will make the numbers more even. just my thoughts
Chris Gardner Apr 25th 2007 2:41PM
A couple of theories:
* Horde has less newbies. The natural reaction for a player new to the genre is to pick "the pretty race" or a human. MMO veterans chose Horde based on actual stat advantages (e.g. 5% stamina buff for Tauren) than appearance. This means a smaller community, as mentioned, but a more knowledgable one. Give a Horde a Paladin and he/she knows what to do with it.
* Horde has had to play with raid "handicaps" for 2+ years. It's not a myth: Paladins are better at raiding that Shamans. Period. Whether or not Blizzard can improve Shamans is anyone guess, but there's no question that Paladin buffs are better and they can heal better. Now, imagine you've been training with 20 lb weights on your legs and you suddenly take them off. The handicap is removed. You'll be amazed at how powerful you feel.
* The maturity thing. It goes hand in hand with the first asterik above, but Horde players generally *do* lean older. Again, if you're young you're sometimes concerned with appearances. Older players ten to put that aside and play a man-cow.
* And the not-so-maturity thing. Some people, inevitably, still base decisions off appearances. Blood Elves have won some converts, including some skilled players.
I think what you're going to find is, ultimately, players will be leaving Alliance as the game progresses. Whether or not they head to Horde is anyone's guess, but the balance of "good" players will even out.
In summary, Alliance didn't exactly have 9 out of 10 top guilds pre-BC simply due to skill. :P There was a lot of other factors.
Pruflas Apr 25th 2007 2:42PM
Easy to explain:
Past:
Alliance - HUGE populations, guilds numbering in the 100's not uncommon. Making 40 man raids easier to form.
Horde - low populations, harder times forming raid groups to run, learn with
Current:
Alliance - huge populations - guids falling apart due to the lowered raid requirements, relearning how to run with smaller groups.
Horde - lower populations - smaller guilds used to working with less players - able to do 25 raids without having the guilds burst apart due to raid seats.
Hellspawn Apr 25th 2007 2:44PM
Imma state the OBVIOUS rudeness of a horde, but from what I've experienced, alliance were ahead because of paladins (to an extent) now the playing field is leveled out and horde shines in our glory, Why? because we (again to an extent) have the more mature players, this is not saying alliance have none, but more that when i was little, I too would have rolled a NE hunter, and named him in some sort of variation to "legolas" which i have seen several times.
in the end, the horde have players that care more about abilities, and that cool factor then playing "hero" where as little kids want to be "heroes" and roll alliance.
all that said is IMO the true reasoning and well proven now that the playing field is level....FOR THE ORDE :)
Longday Apr 25th 2007 6:46PM
Additionally, the Horde has been ruling AV. A year ago, before the server-swapping PvP, Alliance was absolutely dominant in that area and severely lacking in the others. Alliance pugs in WSG and AB are much better than they were before. This may have to do with the new content and gear as the Horde being outnumbered 3:1 on most servers have to catch up to the Alliance's (overall, not end-game) gear. Since gear and gems and world buffs that give the benefits of Spirt Shards and Hayla tokens are practically given to the alliance, Horde has that disadvantage. For example, I was in a group on my 70 Alliance toon and one nelf single handedly took every tower in the Bonewastes without any competition while we stepped out to repair and the timer had just expired. The horde is not used to pvp world buffs, and usually ignore them, especially because it's a numbers game and they know it can easily be a long and then futile battle . Maybe horde has been more interested in the new PvE sets, and Alliance has gotten sick of PvE and has turned Pvp. My horde toon ignores WSG and sometimes AB, but messes around in EoTS and loves AV. The shift might make more sides more balanced, except for the world PvP which is clearly slated for that server's highest population which is usually alliance.
Nelson Apr 25th 2007 2:51PM
@4
I love it too! YAY! oh wait... missing blood elf =(
KarmaDoor Apr 25th 2007 2:52PM
@4 : I found a copy on Deviant Art. I couldn't find the original submission to Blizzard's European Fan Art gallery, though.
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28838620/?qo=8&q=for+the+horde&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5
James Apr 25th 2007 2:54PM
Okay, #1, #8, and #10,
I found the article:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/03/25/new-daedalus-data-girls-heal-and-play-elves-kids-play-horde/
Specifically, this quote:
"Younger players are significantly more likely to choose evil than older players; around 36% of players 11–17 said they would choose evil, which trends down through all other age groups until only 15% of those over 35 chose evil."
So, this misconception about kiddies playing Alliance continues, despite data to the contrary. Kids are more likely to play Horde, not Alliance, so this whole skill/maturity thing the Horde have is a myth. While the Horde side is seeing much better PvE success, it is not due to them having fewer kids. And, apparently, it appears to be in spite of the Horde side most likely having MORE kids than the Alliance side.
Dark Apr 25th 2007 2:55PM
I really don't think its anything but a coincidence. I've seen many immature players play horde, and I've seen just as many on alliance. I don't think it has anything to do with the whole "horde are just better!" thing.
As far as the aesthetic appeal of the alliance races; I chose a human more based on the fact that I would rather have it be a representation of me, and I have always preferred generally alliance based lore over the horde (though the orcs have a great bit of lore backing them).
I have been through about 3 guilds in the past 2 years, one of which was a very mature guild, another tended to be a little more childish at times, but both guilds progressed at around the same rate, the only difference was that the more mature guild got bogged down in some conflicts between members and died, while the more childish guild was able to laugh off the normal conflicts that occur in most guilds...man I've been typing too much...bye!
Kirby1612 Apr 25th 2007 3:01PM
@7
The poll did not ask Horde or Alliance. It asked good or evil. More kids play alliance because of the feeling of fantasy it brings (elves, human with "powers" and the races are "pretty"). There are so many variables that were not factored in because it would lead to a less accurate sample, so for simplicity they pretty much asked a 50/50 question. I believe that presenting a group of people to warcraft, more of the kids would pick Alliace over Horde.
Sullie Apr 25th 2007 3:09PM
Ummm.... So, does wowwiki go out and auto collect the info? No, it is user based so maybe horde guilds likes to show off their epeens more. I play both horde and alliance and find more younger player on the horde side.
the six winger Apr 25th 2007 3:07PM
Wow still holding on to the alliance is for kids thing aren't we. "I've got my opinion don't confuse me with facts."
1)Not having a paladin for two years really wasn't a handicap, sorry. Paladins sucked for 1 year, 10 months.
2)No fearward now that is a handicap. good job fighting through it. but..
3)from playing my blood elf free silence is awesome!
4)From what I can tell on my horde characters the community is alot closer knit. Definatnly nice compared to some of the retards I run into on alliance battle grounds. I know horde have their jerks also but they seem to be better spaced.
5)one guy mentioned people rolling from alliance hardcore raiding over to horde. Infact my best man at my wedding went from a rogue to a MT on the top guild of his new server. He's been there a while though definantly pre BC so maybe not the greatest example.
Like the person above said it has many factors but unlike him obviously its not kiddies playing alliance. cause if they sucked that bad why would anyone take them raiding. especially bleeding edge people.
Avery Apr 25th 2007 3:08PM
I have to agree with #9 and #1/#3.
Horde is used to working in the smaller groups. My own guild pre-BC had to team up with FOUR other guilds in order to do MC/BWL/Naxx. After-BC - all five guilds were able to finally do raids by theirselves. No more having to lean on eachother just to down Nef. Yeah, we still fill gaps in each others groups when needed but the cohesion we have with our own guilds/smaller groups is helping us progress even more than before.
The paladin handicap. While I
Elizabeth Wachowski Apr 25th 2007 3:09PM
Josh, the image is from the WoW Europe fan art contest. http://www.wow-europe.com/shared/wow-com/images/contests/oneyear/fanart/wow-horde.jpg is a high-res version. If only they could throw the blood elves in there ...