A case for patience on the PTRs
by Mike Schramm 
May 2nd 2007 at 10:52AM
You'll forgive me for trying to inject a little reason into a nerf debate (an impossible task, probably), but that's what I'm about to try and do anyway.Yesterday, mages, warlocks, and shadow priests were up in arms about the changes on the test realm to the tailoring epic outfits. Blizzard was experimenting with adding ability stats to the armor while nerfing spell damage, and tailors went ballistic over the changes. And so, within a matter of hours, Eyonix announced on the forums that the changes had already been reverted and would not go to the live servers.
Now, yesterday I said the nerfs weren't that big a deal, and since then, I've seen some good points that say they were-- lots of people spent lots of time and gold getting just these recipes together (some even leveled tailoring for just these pieces), and it definitely presents a problem to make serious changes to gear that people have already sacrificed a lot for.
On the other hand, there were good reasons behind the changes as well. As even a few tailors have said, these crafted pieces matched up to the Tier 4 and 5 pieces, and I see problems with basically requiring clothies to be tailors to be competitive in the endgame.
But my point now isn't to argue whether these sets should have been changed or not. What I want to point out now is that being outraged on the forums and yelling at Blizzard about something that's happening on the test realms will actually impede the developers' abilities to make good changes on the live ones.
Feedback is great, and I'm sure Blizzard's devs love to hear it, especially from the test realms. That's why they have those realms-- to put ideas into play about how the game might change, and (get this) test out their effects. If clothies really are beating melee in DPS with gear that's only available to tailors, there's something that needs to be fixed there. And nerfing these recipes might not be the best way to go about it, but if the reverting of that change announced yesterday was in any way brought on by the obnoxious whining on the forums, we'll never know.
I want the developers to make strange and crazy changes on the test realms. I want them to break the game, to jerk us out of the normal ways of doing things, and to make as many broad, sweeping changes as possible, even if those changes aren't good. It's fine for you to disagree with those changes (and there are certainly channels for you to do so, first and foremost the suggestions area on the official forums). But if players get all outraged every time the devs decide to mess around with a fundamental game mechanic on the forums, the game on the live servers really will devolve into something we've all played before.
I'm no Blizzard apologist-- I'll call them out when they've screwed up. And if a change like this went to the live realms, these tailors would have every right to be angry and tell Blizz that they screwed up. But as far as I'm concerned, they can't screw up on the test realms. That's what they're there for. QQing has its place-- everyone knows there's plenty to complain about on the live servers, and people do complain about it. Constantly.
But lay off on the outrage to changes on the PTR (at least outside of the normal channels of feedback). The more room we all give the devs to experiment there (whether it be with Tailoring recipes or shaman mana efficiency-- hint hint), the better the game we're all playing on the live servers will be.
Filed under: Tailoring, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, News items
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Sylythn May 2nd 2007 11:11AM
I think the trouble comes from the fact that the PTRs have historically been "final bug checking" realms more than "test" realms. Very often, the pre-PTR patch notes remain identical to the post-PTR patch notes. One could argue that means Blizz is doing a good job getting it right the first time. But what people aren't used to is the test realms truly being a place to test stuff out - they see it more as a final verification of the next patch's changes.
Mekias May 2nd 2007 11:01AM
I think it's perfectly acceptable to freak due to changes on the test realms. 90-95% of the stuff usually makes it into the live servers with no changes.
In fact, I think that the uproar over the tailoring sets changes yesterday was the prime reason why it was subsequently removed. They wouldn't have changed it otherwise.
Eric May 2nd 2007 11:06AM
DoTs are greatly affected by +damage gear. Depending on the DoT and the class they get anywhere from 90% to over 100% of +damage applied to the dot over its length. Affliction locks' and Shadow Priests' itemization heavily favors +damage over other stats. These pieces are almost perfectly optimized for those classes in their current form.
Heymish May 2nd 2007 11:06AM
Amen Mike! QQing is the worst part of WoW. When people on General chat start spamming complaints and such, what do you do? Ignore without a second thought. How do you know that Blizz doesn't do the same? My point is that you'd go further with a well written and tought out post than you would with "Blz sux, L2p noobs, tailorz FTW, fix or I quit" If I were Blizz and saw a post like that, I'd encourage you to quit and use the $15 a month for hooked on Phonics.
Scruffy May 2nd 2007 11:07AM
That's all nice but shouldn't there be a step between theorycrafting and PTRs?
I mean, if they redid all of Azeroth and put in tons of goodies only accessible by flying mounts then cut the costs for flying mounts by 50% to encourage players to use the new content, you know there's going to be people screaming high and low for their G back. Now if they made this change to these tailor-only sets, people would want their G back for the mats that went into the items and basically for all the mats they scrounged up to get their tailoring skill that high.
And I don't blame them one bit.
Something that you've invested in, understanding why it's good for you, and then suddenly you're stuck with something that in its current form you'd never have considered. See Silent Resolve for Shadow Priests (wasn't one at the time; did they get the G for respec and retraining their spell ranks up?).
Heymish May 2nd 2007 11:07AM
"Thought out post" I meant. L2spell noob! Lol
Scruffy May 2nd 2007 11:11AM
Err... to continue with what I was saying about a step between theorycrafting and PTRs, they should have their own server(s) to try these things out to see how it affects the gameplay instead of just crunching numbers.
meh May 2nd 2007 11:14AM
I see no issue at all with a tradeskill actually being useful. What has blizzard brainwashed you into? People actually think that tradeskills should not be GOOD. The author of this article is insane.
Why shouldn't someome's armor be better end game when they spent more effort than you did to get it? High end tradeskills are no joke.
Savok May 2nd 2007 11:13AM
As others have put it, they need to cut the "bait and switch" bullshit the entirety of BC professions seem to have become. They basically fucked every Paladin out there with bait and switch as well. They had all of beta to work these things out but as we all know they still haven't fixed some of the problems from the original beta.
There's also a major fuckup with the mentality they have towards items and classes, you can line things up as two trains of thought. The first is a buffing binge where a previously broken and ignored class just keeps getting insane buff after insane buff, Warlocks and Rogues are experiencing this right now.
The second is what's happening with raid items (first Kaz now the tiers), rather then buff a single item or spell/ability, they'll BREAK EVERYTHING AROUND IT in a fucking moronic attempt to make it look good again.
Whoever is in charge of this shit needs their arse kicked, as changes are currently more based on someone's mood then actual balance.
Now how about an article on their current clusterfuck that is the "rolling restart"? Every fucking "15 minutes of downtime" recently has turned into a full blown maintenance with realms vanishing off the face of the Earth.
Drakar24 May 2nd 2007 11:20AM
The cloth wearing set got a pretty good deal with tailoring in the expansion. And the fact that they can farm their own epics that are comparable to T4/T5 is great for the casuals. (Sucks when I duel our main mage and get a 4K frostbolt though). However, the problem is that now T4 and T5 is a sidegrade at best. So they have two options:
1. nerf tailoring set
2. boost T4/T5
If they boost the T4/T5 we get back to that whole raiders>PVP>casual gear thing. So guess whats gonna happen?
Mike Schramm May 2nd 2007 11:21AM
Sylthyn, you make a good point (as usual), but I think you're mixing up cause and effect. Could it be that the reason the PTRs don't differ much is because of the whining that comes with a major change on the test realms? I think it would be better to allow bigger changes on the test realms (so devs can see how changing the game would work), and leave the whining for the live ones.
Then again, I don't know what the rest of Blizzard's testing process is like-- maybe they are making crazy changes on secret test realms, and using the public test realm only, as you say, as a verification process.
nubular May 2nd 2007 11:23AM
Most of the things that are on the PTR notes make it onto the live realms, that's why tailors had no choice but to be up in arms about the whole thing. Blizzard wasn't just 'testing' stuff out, they were getting ready to take a huge swing with the nerfbat until tailors spoke up and I'm glad they did.
JLBorghead May 2nd 2007 11:24AM
PTR is for final QA, not really for theorycrafting. In fact, I was fairly surprised at how quickly the nerf to the tailoring sets was reversed. Compare that to the way the pally nerf has been adjusted. Looks like Illumination is going to be stuck at 60% for 2.1.
Savok May 2nd 2007 11:24AM
#4
No they never got a respec or their money back, talent tree hadn't "changed" according to Blizz.
And yes it's nice to have blacksmithing and not have to PRETEND you lvled it for something more then shield spikes and the odd chain.
Jeroboam May 2nd 2007 11:25AM
As neither a cloth wearer or a tailor my perspective is somewhat different, however, I find it ridiculous that with lvl 70 and some farming, dps casters can have tier 5 equivalent gear, while the itemization for melee classes is so poor. Where are the equivalent blacksmithing patterns or engineering patterns for tanks?
What's more, is that in full tier 5, decked out with gems and enchants, my 70 Tankadin has only 500 more health, and 8% less dodge then he does right now on live in heroic blues and purples. What's the point of getting the tier sets if blizzard is going to make them so non-competitive with the non tier sets and craftables?
isamu619 May 2nd 2007 11:34AM
The point that tailors are "QQing" about is the blood and sweat it took to get those sets. I've seen comments (from non-tailors I suspect) about how the mats for these sets can be farmed in two days. Are people like this insane? Have you seen the mats required for spellfire set? There is a 4 day cooldown just two make two pieces. That's not even including the thousands of gold/mats it required to get tailoring to 375.
Couple this with the very real fact that people dropped other maxed out skills to level tailoring just to have these sets. It's called sacrifice and time invested. And rightfully so that people should be upset if Blizz is even thinking about switching it up on them.
Bottom line, Blizz made this game with these "crafting" professions. They also made them extremely hard and expensive to level. There better be a reward at the end of the tunnel, otherwise what's the point? I think other professions currently have the shaft in this regard.
Affliction May 2nd 2007 11:39AM
Many warlocks cried the most about the changes because they probably know their class and mechanics better than you.
If the most common - and effective - spec for competitive endgaming is affliction, and FSW give affli locks (and spriest) a worthy option over the stupid demonology T5 and destruction T6, who cares?
Lilith May 2nd 2007 11:41AM
@Jeroboam - Just cause you're jealous. It's not a DPS caster's fault that Blizzard can't work out how to scale their own items. But when we work hard for something (some of us anyway) and are proud of our first epics, then they are threatened with a nerf, many of us will protest.
@ OP - I'm glad everyone spoke up and raised hell. If it's important to you, then why not complain? It's easy to demean the QQers as merely a band of whiney idiots. But, not all QQers complain about the same things consistently.
Jason May 2nd 2007 12:04PM
I think your post raises an interesting point. However, I think it is very important that people do provide very vocal feedback about changes they don't want.
They should leave this feedback in official forums and with well-reasoned posts certainly -- but, regardless, they should absolutely leave this feedback.
This is, theoretically, what blizzard wants and is part of the testing process as well. I suspect that PTRS are not only to test out game mechanics but to test out user reaction to such changes. PTR's are, in many ways, like a focus-group and discouraging feedback would only detract from the ultimate goal.
I don't believe the problem is a matter of "patience" in anything more than the haste and volume with which people write their complaint. I don't accept that is QQing unreasonably when you have a valid argument for why a change should not see live servers. I also believe that Blizzard has a poor track record of "reverting" anything they have changed on live realms so it is important that feedback is given before these changes go live.
All this being said, I think the ultimate and almost ideal compromise is exactly what happened. Blizzard now has the chance to see what would happen if they changed things in this manner but has also assured their customers that this change will Not see live.
As a level 70 mage tailor with several friends who have just recently dropped maxed professions to pick up tailoring -- I can tell you I was disheartened by this change. Dismayed as I was I never "whined" about it or even posted about it in any manner till now. I am, however, especially grateful that others did and that their voices were listened to and they did not have "patience."
John May 2nd 2007 12:12PM
It's one thing to change something before you implement it - it's another thing to change something midstream and cost people a lot of gold/time. Sometimes they might be better off announcing the change ahead of tie, or waiting to implement something, or buffing other areas instead of nerfing one.