BigRedKitty's List of Talent No-No's
Each week, Daniel Howell contributes BigRedKitty, a column with strategies, tips and tricks for the hunter class sprinkled with a healthy dose of completely improper, sometimes libelous, personal commentary.
The hunter talent trees stink. OK, that's an overstatement; not all of the individual talents are terrible, of course they're not. But there are several choice nuggets of rottenness that are so pungent they can befoul an otherwise pleasant afternoon of island-diving in Nagrand.
Lest we forget, there have always been talents that people avoided like Stitches in Duskwood. (An aside: have you smacked Stitches to Undercity and back since you hit 70? Do it; it feels great.) Back in the day before the Burning Crusade, there were many analyses of the talents, mocking of the garbage, and culminating in the subsequent "correct talent builds". Eventually, the hunter community basically agreed upon the big three:
31/20/0 The Leveling Beastmaster. A common enough spec, yet very rarely used in instances as our pets were basically hindrances, both because of the weakness of our pets and the incompetence of the hunters who controlled them. Did you wipe your raid in Lower Blackrock Spire on the first jump? Of course you did. Hunters used this spec to level and get to 60, then they'd respec and do Zul'Gurub, Molten Core, etc.
5/31/15 The Raiding Spec. Proclaimed to be the best at maximizing steady DPS, this build eschewed crits for lots of Ranged Attack Power. There was nothing particularly wrong with this spec, it did it's job well. Equip a fast ranged weapon and let the Improved Aspect of the Hawk procs flow. It was also derisively called the "cookie-cutter build" by those of us who followed the other primary talent spec. You know, the one the cool kids used.
0/21/30 The PvP and Crit Specialist. If you wanted to one-shot squishies, this was your spec. Get a slow ranged weapon and lots of agility, stand at Iceblood Graveyard and when a late-arriving horde tried to get by you, crack him with Scatter Shot, back up just a bit, load Aimed Shot, wait for the crit... and take in the heady aroma of a beautiful one-shot kill. Golly, BRK has some fond memories of those days.
Fast-forward to today, and the number of viable talent builds are too numerous to count. BigRedKitty has seen many examples of avante-garde talent specs that, while BRK wouldn't choose them, others have made very successful. In the Burning Crusade-era, we generally believe that whatever you select, if you can make it work, is just dandy. It's your $15 so do what you like.
However...
There are some things that BRK will not tolerate. Melee hunters top this list. We so loathe this breed of hunter that if you participate in this affront to decent and moral society, we ask that you quit reading now. That's right, scoot. Go read about Druids or something. For the rest of you, there are many other examples of egregious hunter behavior we shall enumerate in future columns. Don't think you're off the hook just yet.
Also in the BRK pantheon of ire-raisers are the bad talents and the hunters who choose them. The BRK List of Talent No-No's exists specifically for this situation. Your talent trees have some real pieces of junk that you are prohibited from using, lest you lose BRK Cool Points - BRK Cool Points are awarded for outstanding service to the hunter community, redeemable at the BRK Quartermaster in lovely, downtown Shattrath - the respect of your peers, and any chance to gain entrance to The Happy Hunting Grounds upon retirement.
BRK is a practitioner of the Beastmaster talent tree, but no matter which spec you decide to pursue, there are some talents that are bad. Really bad. Big stinkers. Some obviously atrocious, and some devious in their fetidness. Have you trained in one of them? BRK worries that you have. Let's see.
Improved Pet Mend. Don't let the name fool you; this is not improving your Pet Mend spell, this is a spell enhancement. If this talent actually increased your healing capacity, BRK would instantly remove it from this list. BRK has seen a hunter decked out in pure +healing gear take down a world boss. Pet healing is the schiznit, and we give BRK Cool Points to healers who toss Hobbes a heal or two.
But IPM is actually enhanced pet mending, and the enhancement is crummy. Two talent points to remove curses and poisons is Not Good, especially considering what you have to give up. This isn't the crippled Survival or yawnable Marksman trees; there is so much goodness, so many incredible talents in the Beastmaster tree that to waste two points on an unnecessary spell enhancement is a tremendous loss. We only have forty-one points in the tree with which to play – we want twenty in Marksman for the full crit bonus damage with Mortal Shots - so wasting two on IPM, when we should be using them for Ferocity, draws BRK's ire.
Entrapment. Survival is a gimped tree, period. The higher-end talents just do not justify the dps-loss one incurs by going deep into this tree when one is focused on PvE. With the 2.1 patch, this will be very much improved, and BRK does plan on respecting Survival to test the effectiveness of the upgrades. But Entrapment is one hunk-o-junk talent that many PvP players think is wonderful now, and BRK wants a sample of whatever it is they're smoking, 'cause it's gotta be boss.
Entrapment is, bluntly, a very silly talent. Yes, the three level-two talents in the Survival tree are all kinda blah, and BRK heartily recommends you skip them if you go deeper. Nine points in the Humanoid Slaying, Monster Slaying, and Hawk Eye talents is where we recommend people start, then dump the tenth point anywhere before moving to Clever Traps.
But BRK has received email espousing Entrapment, and stating very erroneously how we must never have done PvP if we don't know how great it is. Some hunters actually email us, talking up Entrapment, claiming it's the PvPers Best Friend.
We sit in stunned silence at that misguided rhetoric and are baffled by the lunacy. Frankly, after one of these emails, we need some cocoa.
Yes, having your Immolation Trap basically stun your opponent for five seconds is great - when Entrapment procs - but if you needed to get to range, you should've dropped a Freezing Trap in the first place. BRK has yet to encounter a situation where we lost a fight, croaked up our little dwarven toes and from the darkest depths of the closest graveyard, uttered,
"If we'd only had Entrapment, we wouldn't be sucking dirt."
Combat Experience. Whew. Just speaking this one's name causes BRK to break into hives and get the cold sweats. It is the single worst hunter talent of them all, praise Elune, pass the collection plate. This talent leaves such a foul taste in our mouths, we'd rather you leave two talent points unspent then invest in this waste dump.
On any given day, BRK will have 555 agility and 186 intellect. If you gave us two free talent points to put into CE, we'd gain a whopping...
Eleven agility and eleven intellect.
That's it, that's all, end of story. +2% agility and +6% intellect, that's all we get. Keep looking through the box, sift through the packing popcorn, toss the desiccant, turn the empty box upside down and shake it; nothing else is falling out of that package. BRK says, "It's not Combat Experience, it's Combat Idiocy". If you're a Marksman hunter - and Elune knows there are enough of those mail-wearing, mage-wanna-be's squatting behind the paladins with the squishies – we beg you, Just Say No to Combat Idiocy.
BRK is going under the knife this week, so our email replies shall be few and far between. The BRK Email Repository and Melee Hunter Deprogramming Center will remain open, and so are these WoW Insider comments. Can you string together a coherent, non-l33t-based rebuttal?
We have our doubts, you know.
Daniel Howell continues his quest to eliminate melee Hunters as the Damh and Hobbes hunter-pet duo extraordinaire known to lore as BigRedKitty. More of his theorycrafting and slanderous belittling of the lesser classes can be found at bigredkitty.blogspot.com.
[Fan art by Moony]
Filed under: Humor, (Hunter) Big Red Kitty, Hunter






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Orin May 2nd 2007 7:49PM
Ohhh youre SO wrong about Entrapment. I swear by it in PVP.
This may be changed in next patch with the changes to Entrapment (subject to diminishing returns), but many opponents that I've gone up against will tell you that Frost Trap + Entrapment = the debil.
Frost Trap checks multiple times for Entrapment and it can proc numerous times.
It used to proc a lot more and was capable of completely grinding en-masse rushes in AV to a halt. Placed correctly on the Alliance bridge in range of the towers, it was devastating. It got nerfed hard but still retains a great deal of viability.
Everything else I agree with, but Entrapment? My absolute favorite PvP talent, and is evidenced by how frequently I use it (90% of the time) opposed to Freeze Trap (almost never)
Ciaran May 2nd 2007 8:04PM
I have to disagree with some of your comments on "useless talents."
Improved Pet Mend: this can be a godsend when leveling in places like EPL where your pet can and will suffer from a 30 minute duration disease debuff. The field medics there only remove the debuffs on you, not on your pets.
Entrapment: if you think you get this talent for Immolation, you'd be incorrect in your assumption. The reason this talent was so useful in PVP is because of Frost Trap, especially in BGs like WSG. One Frost Trap with Entrapment can stop a flag rush or a flag return in its tracks. The radius coupled with the potential for multiple procs coupled with the out-and-out immobilization equaled invaluable talent. Same deal for bridge or mid-keep in AV. No one buys Entrapment for Immolation or any other trap.
Combat Experience: I have no disagreement with you here. This talent is simply insulting. I don't why Blizzard even kept it in the tree after nerfing it into the ground during BC beta.
Robert May 2nd 2007 7:57PM
BRK, my initial impression is that you're gifted with extensive verbosity and a very limited knowledge of the game. Please work on reversing that.
Aesa May 2nd 2007 8:03PM
You neglect to mention that Improved Mend Pet (the name of the talent is not Improved Pet Mend, btw) will also decrease the mana cost of the spell by 10%/20% after the patch is released.
In PvP, Improved Mend Pet can be used like a front-loaded dispel... put that on your pet before you engage, and it will be very hard to keep your pet out of combat.
In PvE, where efficiency is the name of the game, Mend Pet will heal almost 2.4k health for 300 mana even without the Improved Mend Pet talent. A priest with +1500 healing casting a Renew would still be hard pressed to match such mana efficiency.
I strongly recommend you reconsider the worthiness of the Improved Mend Pet talent.
http://www.thottbot.com/test/s27046
mike_a May 2nd 2007 8:05PM
Entrapment is godly on the AV Bridge. A single hunter can cast multiple frost traps on the bridge - Stops a hordie rush in their tracks.
Mend pet was great when leveling - in places like EPL and Winterspring you end up with all sorts of stupid 30 minute diseases. Great for soloing, kind of useless in outland though.
Belthasar May 2nd 2007 8:20PM
Why did they hire a writer who knows nothing about his class?
Gazoo May 2nd 2007 8:26PM
I was hoping to find fair and balanced commentary about my class, namely Hunters, in this column hosted by a Hunter. What I really find is a soapbox for Beastmastery.
Your take on these talents (yes,even Combat Experience) is so out of touch it is rather amusing.
Perhaps one day WoWInsider will have a real Hunter column.
Belthasar May 2nd 2007 8:26PM
I guess combining [decent writing skills] with [general cluelessness about his class in a PvP setting] at least sparks controversy and views.
Yet ...
Don't write about whatcha don't know, lad.
- Not even 6,000 lifetime kills is no PvP experience
- Pre-expansion ranking of ... Sergeant
- No arena teams in any bracket
Still using the level 60 standard ranged weapon?
No gems in any sockets?
Keep practicing. In-game, because writing sure isn't helping you.
Nyx May 2nd 2007 8:33PM
Bring back Hecht. At least he didn't pretend Hunter knowledge when he was misinformed about the class.
James May 2nd 2007 8:52PM
Amen on the Improved Mend pet. I've leveled well into Outland, and the only time I considered it was EPL thanks to the ridiculous poison times on some of the critters. But, get out of EPL, and its back to business as usual. And mending pet is just about useless anyway; why they won't make that talent about actually healing the pet more effectively is sad.
Byron May 2nd 2007 8:52PM
I have to also disagree with the author's Improved Mend Pet assessment, at least with the upcoming 2.1 patch making Pet Mend a HoT. In 2.1, MP + iMP will make your pet nearly un-cc'able in pvp. iMP gives a 50% chance *per tick* of removing one curse, disease, magic, or poison effect on the pet. It ticks every 3 sec for 15s, for a total of 5 ticks, and cleanses Polymorph (magic), Curse of Exhaustion, Crippling Poison, and just about everything else other classes use to cc BM hunters' pets. When BW/TBW is on cd, this will still give us some measure of getting our pets out of cc, at very little cost in time to cast or mana expended or lost dps due to not having to channel it anymore. After 2.1, I'll be respeccing from 2/2 Spirit Bond to 2/2 iMP.:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mxbhzgxRVuVoVxbRV
Read this thread I started on the wow forums about it:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=98764339&postId=985600604&sid=1#5
Miyaku May 2nd 2007 8:51PM
Seriously I read up to the point where you said 5/31/15 should use fast weaps... I skimmed the rest and realized you don't really have a clue.
Gazoo May 2nd 2007 9:00PM
Question for any staff member at WoWInsider.. is there a plan to hire a writer that respects all Hunter classes, or did you just plan on hiring this one guy who claims Beastmaster is the be-all and end-all?
I would even be happy with a BM specced writer who at least acknowledges that other talent trees are quite viable and have been working nicely for a long time, without feeling the need to disrespect Marksman and Survival hunters in every 3rd sentence.
For now... I will be looking elsewhere for Hunter information and informed Hunter commentary. BRK is not it.
NewDark May 2nd 2007 9:50PM
Yea, BRK, This was quite the embarrasing post, how in the world could you say entrapment was useless? At least as being a survival hunter, I dont assume BM is trash, I just know that its better for PvP.
Get some experience man, play some instead of writing posts that make no sense that are 10-20 paragraphs long :/
Orin May 2nd 2007 10:07PM
Leave the guy alone. I enjoy his writing, which everyone here basically admits is very good. Nobody says you have to agree with the writer on everything or even on anything. The columnist is here to provoke discussion and entertain, and he's doing exactly that.
I appreciate the attention this columnist gives to the hunter class and welcome the spotlight on our frequently overlooked class.
Axeme May 2nd 2007 11:08PM
Agree with #15
His forum was popular because it was entertaining to read. And yes, believe it or not, his hunter wisdom is not 100% wrong, as some of you self-proclaimed experts seem to infer.
Disagree with him, especially when you can cite specifics. But simply trashing his post with a vague "he knows nothing about his class" is just showing your ass. Get over yourselves and your incredible, in-depth, unsurpassed knowledge about a "game" and understand the BRK columns for what they are.
Then go kick your dog.
Toroc May 3rd 2007 12:02PM
wow you guys aren't giving this guy any slack are you.....
well I for one would like to welcome you to WoW insider sorry the welcome wasn't so warm from others
I also play a hunter and i have always been beast speced i have to raise an argument about Imp mend though and if you want to complain about he lack of points it gives than only throw one point in to it it will still proc every heal at least but really its quite helpful especially if your soloing which most beast hunters tend to do and as someone said a ways up it will reduce mana costs of mend in the patch which really is the only thing in a hunters spellbook that just guzzles mana
every thing else i agreed with. I do also acknowledge that entrapment is crap FOR A PVE BUILD it is completely viable in pvp for reasons thats been said above me over and over.
combat exp= crap as i said iv never been marksmen but your argument makes sense
@14: hey dumbass he was survival before do some research before you open your face and speak
any way as i was saying mele hunters should be killed and camped until the burning legion returns
damn i typed alot sorry about that thx if you read it all keep up the good work maybe your next post will be a little less controversial
Zul\\\'Jin May 2nd 2007 11:20PM
Imp. Mend pet is kick-as in all sorts of situations
Serenity May 2nd 2007 11:22PM
Well I admit his writing is alright...his style and general attitude isn't that great (almost horrible) it's an ignorant, arrogant "I'm better than you" attitude..which he really isn't since he's proving to not have a clue about some areas of the class.
I'm disappointed, this wasn't something I wanted to see on WoWInsider..at least when it was on his own blog I could just...not go to his website...now I have to see this trash when I check for my daily news.
And sorry about the blunt negativity, this is seriously just how I feel, not trying to offend.
Facegriller May 2nd 2007 11:25PM
You picked Improved Mend Pet as a stinker in the BM tree?! Put in one point, and those annoying dots are gone in PVE. 2 points, and good luck to anyone trying to snare you pet in PVP...
But my MAIN rebuttal is simply this: why'd you pick that over crap like Improved REVIVE Pet?! or the utterly useless Animal Handler, which doesn't stack with a riding crop?! or Pathfinding?
Facegriller
Cenarion Circle
(formerly of Shattered Hand)