Build Shop: Paladin 21/31/0

Hello, talent-loving faithful! Ready for some more build dissection? This evening we turn to a hybrid class that's getting a bit of a nerf for one of its roles in the upcoming patch, but some buffs to its other major role. Yep, it's time to poke and prod Paladin talents. The Holy talent Illumination, as I'm sure all Paladins reading this know, is receiving probably the single biggest nerf anything is getting in patch 2.1 (aside from Alchemy). On the other hand, the Protection tree is getting a few buffs, including a new Improved Holy Shield talent, elimination of the deadzone on
The arithmetically astute among you may note that the build above, 21/31/0, is incomplete. It only has 52 points in it, out of the 61 points available at level 70. This is because the submitter of this build, Mithral of Kael'Thas, isn't quite sure how exactly he wants to finish it off. The reason I picked this build is because, like Mithral, I "actually like the idea of a Hybrid class." His goal is to somehow make a Pally build that is decent at both of the class's primary roles, healing and tanking. This, he says, could also take advantage of Pally itemization, since "most Pally gear comes with +Spell damage AND +healing in one piece." I have my doubts about this point -- I definitely maintain very separate healing and DPS gear on my Priest. Just because it says "damage and healing" doesn't mean it's going to hold a candle to a dedicated healing piece.
But this feature isn't about gear; let's see how the talents shake out. Mithral's goal with the build is "to be able to main-tank and main-heal in the BC 5-mans, and off-tank/off-heal in Kara and beyond. Possibly even use the melee-healer concept: Get into the thick of things, drop helpful seals on Mobs/Bosses, heal-like-crazy, and maybe swing a weapon every now and then. I don't give a crap about DPS for soloing mat-farming or rep-grinding, I've got plenty of DPS-heavy guild-mates to team with. I want to tank more than heal, thus the 31 in Prot, and 21 in Holy." Holding that in mind, we plunge into the Holy tree.
Most Priests wish our Holy and/or Discipline trees were anywhere near as good as the Paladin Holy tree. Looking at these talents has refreshed my jealousy from the very start: Divine Intellect, which 10% more mana for five talent points. The Priest equivalent, Mental Strength, requires 20 points in Discipline, and taking it precludes taking a lot of really nice healing stuff in Holy. I promise I won't make this whole thing into a post about fixing Priest talents, but I just thought this example particularly telling. Anyway, a fine start for a build interested in healing, and certainly more useful for healing than extra strength. Although I wonder, if tanking is this build's first priority, if more Str wouldn't actually be nice -- is it the case that Str is fairly irrelevant for a Pally tank, and they rely more on spell damage?
Moving down the tree, we find a place where Pally talents are actually worse than Priest ones. Spiritual Focus gives heals a 70% chance not to be interrupted by damage, for 5 TP; the Priest version only takes 2 and is at the top of the tree. So I guess that's nice. Of note here as well is the fact that this stacks with Concentration Aura (even untalented) for complete heal uninterruptability. We then move down and grab Healing Light, a "no duh" talent for healing: 4% more to the main heals per talent point? Gimme.
However, then the build does something I question. Having two talent points left to spend before we can move on, it backs up a tier and dumps them in Imp. Seal of Righteousness. To me, the obvious move, especially for a tank, would be to put them in Unyielding Faith, for a chance to resist fear and disorientation. Fear is all over the place in BC dungeons, and it's always nice when it doesn't hit the tank. (On the other hand, besides Blind, I'm not sure what counts as a "disorientation" effect -- anyone care to fill me in?) But then again, Imp. SoR is getting applied after +damage from gear in 2.1, so that makes that talent a little more worthwhile, and an excellent Pally in my guild informs me that post-patch, in his opinion, Imp. SoR will be better than Unyielding Faith for tanking.
Next we come to the talent that is to the Pally Holy tree as Flurry is the Fury tree: Illumination. In its current state, it returns 100% of the mana of a critical heal. Post-patch, it will return 60%. Either way, it's quite formidable, and is basically the reason why Paladins can heal practically forever (well, that and the cheap base cost of Flash of Light). And picking up 5/5 Illumination (which you'd have to be crazy not to do) gives access to Divine Favor, which is a 3-minute cooldown skill that guarantees that the next heal will crit. And since you've got Illumination, that means that heal will also be free (now) or 40% cost (after patch). Pretty nifty in a pinch, and a decent place to stop in the Holy tree.
On to Protection! Redoubt is a very interesting talent, and a nice opener to the talent tree. Against a 2.0 attack speed mob, Redoubt should be up about half the time, if I'm doing my math correctly, which means each TP nets you a 3% increased chance to block, overall. Toughness is another gimme: every tank loves armor. Shield Spec makes Redoubt even better, although I don't understand how shields work very well, so the precise math of it eludes me. As Mithral points out, while Blessing of Kings is not strictly related to tanking or healing, everyone loves it, so going at least 11 into Prot without picking it up would be kind of silly.
To my unpracticed eye, Improved Righteous Fury reads like the Illumination of the Prot tree. Not only does it gives a solid boost to threat generation, it also reduces damage in considerably (2% per point). That takes care of both of a tank's primary goals at once: stay alive and keep the mobs' attention. But now we're a bit stuck: we don't like the next tier, consisting as it does of entirely PvP talents. What do we do? Go back and fill in Precision. No, white damage isn't the heart and soul of a tanking Pally, but it helps.
Next! Blessing of Sanctuary: flippin' sweet, if I may be so bold. Another less damage in/more threat out talent, and one that leverages our already improved shield ability. Alongside it we pick up Reckoning; while Reck bombs are a thing of the past, it's still a solid skill if you're getting hit. The next tier is something I feel will be reevaluated when 2.1 hits. One-Handed Weapon Spec is being changed to increase all damage caused by 1% per point, instead of increasing damage caused by 1h melee weapons by 2% per point. This makes it much more viable for tanking, what with all the Holy damage you're throwing around. In 2.1 I'd put 4 points here instead of 2/2 Sacred Duty and 2/5 1h Spec.
And finally, this tree finished out in Holy Shield, yet another mitigation/threat talent, and another one that works with the shield. Heck, they could've just named this tree "Shield," and then there would've been fewer Pally results when I searched for how to level my Warrior as Prot (don't worry, I gave that up after trying it for a couple hours). That's where this build finishes out. Mithral has a couple ideas for where to go from here: add some Ret for 21/31/9, or add some Holy for 30/31/0. I'd also like to throw out there at this point a build from the aforementioned guild Pally whose skill I admire, Ganggrel: 40/21/0. This is what he suggested when I asked him about a hybrid build, and essentially, it seems to drop some of the tank-specific stuff from Prot for some dual-purpose stuff in Holy.
What do you guys think? Where would you go from 21/31/0 if you wanted a hybrid build? And please, send me your builds! Next week I'll be doing a Druid, a Shaman, or a Hunter.
Filed under: Paladin, Features, Talents, Build Shop






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sherief May 8th 2007 8:16PM
My Paladin main is off-tanking Karazhan...here's my advice:
-Drop the %10 armor bonus for 5 points in anticpation. It's much better. You need to maximize avoidance to avoid crushing blows. (%102.4 against 73 elites with holy shield up is what you need to be crush immune) and +defense adds to block, dodge, and parry.
-Absolutely take sacred duty
-I agree, take the fear/disorient resist. Imp. SoR is a waste.
-Take Ardent Defender
-Do heroics and get a Libram of Repentance
-don't bother with 1H weapon specialization until after the patch. you'll also want improved holy shield after the patch.
-get lots of warrior tank gear and a continuum blade. put +stam gems in every socket.
I'm 20/41. I took Avenger's Shield over illumination because of the huge extra threat it generates, but it isn't necessary. everything in Kara is undead so Exorcism will work just fine. 21/40 for illumination should work as well.
I offtank for the entire run and switch to healing gear for some of bosses.
Turall, Perenolde(A)
Sherief May 8th 2007 8:19PM
I said illumination...I meant Divine Favor..
cluelessnoob May 8th 2007 8:31PM
This build, once the other talent points are spent, can do either of two roles in a truly mediocre fashion. This is a great spec for someone who loves to run sub-70 instances and who also loves to carry around 2 sets of armor (dedicated tanking and dedicated healing) all the time.
You hit the nail on the head on itemization, Eliah. Items with +damage/healing are for damage; if you are healing in +dmg gear, then you are hurting your group.
A level 70 paladin with a this kind of hybrid spec can:
a) main tank in any non-heroic 5-man instance, in pieces from "Faith in Felsteel" or the "Righteous Armor" set - but at times it's going to be ugly, 'cause he doesn't have the mitigation or the threat of a fully tank-spec'ed paladin.
b) main heal in any non-heroic 5-man instance, in a solid set of +healing gear ... preferably the Purple Judgement "set". See the list at: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27790#M0z
c) get his group slaughtered if relied on to tank about half the pulls in Kara, if relied on to solo heal a tank in Kara, or if brought to any heroic instance and relied on in any way. He just can't heal or tank well enough.
If you want to play that "melee healer" as described, then ret is your spec of choice. If you want to swap between healing and off-tanking roles, great, just understand that you can't do it in heroics and can rarely do it in Karazhan.
Commentary on talent choices:
- Shield Specialization is perhaps the worst talent available to paladins. Just don't do it. Please. Blocking is great; blocked amount is close to meaningless.
- You are EVER going to tank and didn't take ANY points in Anticipation? Ummm ...
- Precision is valuable not for white damage, but because swings that miss can't apply seals.
- If you're going to MT, you want that 5% parry from the ret tree; trust me.
- One-handed Weapon Specialization is nice now and is absolutely required of tanks as of 2.1. Just FYI.
- Divine Strength: yeah, not that valuable to either a tankadin or a healadin; best left skipped entirely.
Finally ... healadins are great healers now and will continue to be in 2.1! Don't listen to all the QQing about the Illumination nerf. The purpose of that nerf is to get you healadins to actually take your 41 point talent ... please do. :)
Tankadins are not bad either - if properly geared and spec'ed. I wouldn't say that heavy delving into the holy tree helps them at all. If you want to do both roles, just dive deep into protection, and keep a solid +int/healing set in the bank, and you can swap roles per encounter as needed.
And if you really must play a spec where your role is a mix of melee & healing ... go ret/holy. A hybrid prot/holy can't be relied on for either job; a ret/holy paladin can bring some solid dps, pass around enough buffs to justify his inclusion in the group or raid, and still provide solid backup heals whenever needed.
Kissthering May 8th 2007 8:33PM
Well thats not so great but at least it isn't a ret pally
Balasan May 8th 2007 8:53PM
OMIGAWD, this is an almost exact replica of my build.
Armory link:http://armory.wow-europe.com/#character-talents.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Balasan
I took this build for the same reason - I can main-tank and main-heal any instance, truly embracing my hybridity.
For the extra spare points Ardent defender, although being nerfed next patch, is still extremely useful. And as Sherief said, anticipation is preferable over toughness (I still need to respec :P) If you're serious about tanking you need to work hard for the gear (I've seen a post in the us forums about the best pally tank gear you can get pre-karazhan, can't find it atm), so if you've got the spare points, go for Spell Warding, it helps to reduce damage, and who doesn't want that.
I'm not sure if I like Imp SoR. But resisting fear and disorients by 10% isn't much to talk about either. Examples of disorients are gouge, sap (rogues), maul (kitty droods) and repentance. Go for it if you're pvp (I do).
Most importantly with this build is that you have to be confident with it. Prove your groups and your guild that you CAN do both. It's still not a mainstream build, but with enough people taking this hybrid build, it should allow more versatility. And hey, if I'm needed in a group I always advertise that I can tank or heal. Helps cut down group searching time.
Balasan May 8th 2007 9:01PM
and at #3, you are right with regards to gear; I always carry 3 sets of armor with me all the time (one healing, one tanking, one dps). It eats my bags, but I am embracing my hybrid build.
I have however, MTed every 70 instance non-heroic with my current gear. In fact I loved tanking SH, since my multi-mob tanking abilities truly shine as I tank 4/5 mobs at once.
And there really isn't much difference from a tank specced pally than a pally of this spec. Take ardent defender and it's an excellent build for tanking, save the loss of 5% parry, which is probably countered by the extra HP from AD. Can't say about 1H-spec, haven't tested it out yet, but atm it's not neccessary to tank.
Other points I concur.
jdmdrew May 8th 2007 9:31PM
Blah...get to the Shamman build already
twh May 8th 2007 9:43PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but the fact is that you either need to spec heavy in either Holy or Prot to make any significant headway in raids.
The raids have gotten harder to the point where either you go as a healer or as a tank. There is no in-between as there used to be.
So, it depends upon whether you want to be a tank or a healbot in a raid.
If you want to tank, here are my suggestions;
-Maximize your Defense rating with Gear. 490 is the magic number and it makes you uncrushable.
-Create a macro for the Righteous Defense ability to save your healers.
-Stack up on Stamina Gems to increase the amount of punishment you can take.
-Use enchants that increase your Defense rating and/or Stamina.
-For Talents; Take absolutely NO talents in Holy, and put 12 in Retribution to get Benediction (for mana used for Judgments and what not), Deflection (for obvious reasons), and Improved Judgment to increase the frequency of Judgments on the mob.
-Now, in Prot, I'd spec EVERYTHING in Tier 2 and 3. Which also includes Redoubt, since you're trying to get Shield Specialization. Then skip the next tier, since those are more PvP talents than PvE. You get Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning. The former for Holy Shield, and the latter to assist in keeping aggro. Then Sacred Duty to increase Stamina and 1H specialization for a damage increase. Holy Shield, (with the next patch) Improved Holy Shield, and Ardent Defender are a MUST! These are that will save your behind in a tanking situation. Finally, Avenger's Shield to get aggro, and it's even better now that there's no dead-zone.
That's all I can give at the moment.
Argent May 8th 2007 9:58PM
calling imp concentration aura a 'pvp only' talent is a bit off, imo. it's very useful for a lot of casters (warlocks, f.e.) in raids and with the changes to it in 2.1, it's actually even more useful (f.e. in reducing the time on gruul's reverb effect.)
Jeroboam May 8th 2007 11:21PM
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-talents.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Jeroboam
Very similar to my build which is 21/31/9. It's an excellent raiding build. In my prot gear I can tank anything, I actually main tank Kara with this build (but I also have some incredibly high end tanking gear) and am still able to off heal for Shade and Maiden and in my holy gear I can main heal 5 mans up to heroic Slave Pens.
For utility in end game, I really don't think you can beat this build if you have the gear to make both holy and prot viable.
Scalin May 9th 2007 12:33AM
I agree with what some others have said. Paladins may be a hybrid class, like shamans, but I don't think they can hybrid two different aspects at the same time. At least well.
Either your healing sucks because you don't have enough of the upper-tier pally talents, or your tanking sucks because you can't deal enough threat.
Personally, I like the tankadin, and plan to rock the 10/41/10 build, seen here: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qVVZVhdIx0zttxoVf . Keep in mind, holy damage = threat, so imp SoR and imp Crusader is useful in order to keep threat up. Just read the paladin tanking guide that was linked here a while ago.
Sherief May 9th 2007 12:33AM
@5
I actually view the change to Ardent Defender as being a buff.
Darkcrusader May 9th 2007 12:52AM
I tried to split the talents like this in a similar way so I could MT or Main Heal well, but it turns out I was only an okay Tank (more of an OT) and not too good of a MH (My usual job). So I switched to mostly prot and a couple other talents (Ret for the parry) mixed around and I could MT 5 mans easy. Later on, as my guild started Kara, I switched back to holy and could heal it no problem. Since then I've MH 5mans no problem either. We have a Prot pally OT in kara sometimes, just doesn't ever seem to end up well, and especially now that we've cleared it and moved on to gruul...
Anyway, it just seems that you really have have the best of both worlds...maybe half of each (Offtank/Offheal).
Coriel May 9th 2007 3:26AM
I'd go 23/38/0: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVxhrxzZVGtIx0dgz
Pick up Anticipation, Spell Warding, Imp Lay on Hands, Unyielding Faith, and Guardian's Favour. Drop 1H Spec and Imp Seal of Righteousness.
Threat is generally a paladin's strong point. Survivability (when tanking) is weaker.
Tigger May 9th 2007 4:33AM
Hey,
To be a real MT (for Heroics and Karazhan) you would need a build like 0/44/17. But as you plan to OffHeal/Offtank, I would also go for 20/41/0 or 21/40/0 (I personally would never drop the Shield, it is a very nice tool für heroic instances).
So just put all the rest of the points in the Protection Tree, there are so many nice talents there.
chimera May 9th 2007 7:06AM
"-Maximize your Defense rating with Gear. 490 is the magic number and it makes you uncrushable."
False, it makes you uncrittable :P
I don't think that hybrids should spec in hybrid specs. Just keep separate gear sets and that's it.
Nirea May 9th 2007 8:22AM
Hi, as other noticed the lack of anticipation is very surprising, or do you already have the gear to get to 490 def (and thus crit immunity)?
I'm specced 45/16/0 and i healed anything up to magtheridon, tanked in Kara and a lot of heroics. I still believe this is the best spec to heal and tank, because i don't think you will be able to really solo heal any of the heoic without a full healer spec. on the other side the deep talents in prot are only really usefull for boss tanking, but if you wan't to be able to tank Malchezar, nightbane, gruul or anything like that you need a dedicated spec anyway and won't be able to heal anymore. Aside from imp righteous furry, wich is absolutely mandatory, i wouldn't be concerned with agro since is not a problem whatsoever. There are 2 things that I miss from the prot tree in terms of tanking: Sacred duty (stamina is a huge problem) and Ardent defender, but on the long run, blessed life is as good in terms of mitigation.
So if you really wan't a healer/tank hybrid spec I would sugest this one: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVxuMgzhestV0thb
(you can move the points of anticipation to guardian's favor for example)
Wallace May 9th 2007 8:43AM
If you want to MT, here is my advice, /roll warrior
Dipstick May 9th 2007 8:48AM
Unfortunately this build is mediocre in 2 roles as no.3 said. You're far better off choosing 41/20/0 (healing orientated) or 20/41/0 (tanking orientated) to get the most out of it. Since I only OT'd in Karazhan I didn't need to be crushing-immune, so went 41/20/0 so I wouldn't be a dead-weight healer either.
With the next patch however and the illumination nerf it'd be very difficult to justify being 20/41/0 - its effectively forcing you to go pure healing or pure tanking spec.
I say 'you' because I just rerolled to my 70 warlock due to my continued dissapointment with the paladin class design.
Sylvina May 9th 2007 9:35AM
My Build
This is an example of my 2.1 talents, I can tank most 5-mans well, however I have no aspirations of tanking in Karazhan or anything, however I have tanked in a Heroic Crypts once before, and it was amazing!