But I need that for my alt!
by Dan Crislip 
May 11th 2007 at 2:50PM
Mingka of Dath'Remar shares her story of genuinely needing an item that dropped on a Sunken Temple run, the Robes of Insight, only to have it snatched away by greed. The hunter in the group rolled need on the item as well, with the excuse that his alt/friend/guildmate/girlfriend needs it also. The bottom line question: who is allowed to roll on an item that drops while grouped? The debate continues, but people are very united in the answer that items should always go to players who were present for the drop and need the item as a direct upgrade. What happens if nobody directly needs the item is still a question.
I personally think that loot should be discussed if a clear upgrade situation is not present. Many people have alts, and would like to outfit those characters. But All of us have mains that require funding and gear/enchant/gem upgrades to progress further.
I don't blame Mingka for her frustration. The greed that many players have in the game hurts everyone. In fact, if the item had been a BOE blue, this might not have happened, but the fact that it was a purple epic turns everyone greedy. This is one of the reasons I dislike running pickup groups - that the item that drops may not go to the player in the group who could benefit the most from it. Guild and friend groups are much more willing to be sure the items go to good homes. When a BOE pattern drops, we find out who in the guild needs it before we disperse it for greed, and sometimes we'll even split the profits from the sale in some cases. The only time I've ever taken loot for my alt was in Molten Core, when the tier 1 BOE loot was not an upgrade for anyone attending and I wanted to spend a little DKP.
Long story short, group with people you trust.
This post reminded me of another forum topic regarding the real meaning of "I need this for my alt," which sparked many humorous responses, like:
"I need this for my alt: my auction house alt."
"I'm a ninja, boot me before anything YOU need drops."
There were also many replies to the "I need this for my alt" quote:
"If you need this for your alt, then get his @$$ down here."
"Too bad your alt isn't here."
"That's what GREED ROLL is for!"
"Don't care"
What stories do you have to share about needing and greeding in World of Warcraft?
[Thanks, Sasha.]
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Hank May 11th 2007 2:59PM
I would spam their name as a ninja. I would roll an opposing faction toon JUST for that purpose as well. And if I were on a PvP server, well, justice would be quite swift.
Katsiya May 11th 2007 3:06PM
In a PUG, Alts come down to basically rolling greed and hoping you get it. If the person isn't there, that's how it goes.
Now if its in a group of people you group with on a regular basis and trust, then I they should discuss and determine if it would be okay for your alt to get it.
Honestly, go for equipment for your alt only if no one NEEDS it. Either that, or actually get your alt to that area and hope.
Joshua Ochs May 11th 2007 3:19PM
If you're present and you need it, roll need. Anything else (need for alt, DE, haven't gotten any loot, looks cool), you roll greed. End of story. Yeah, occasionally it sucks, and sometimes you'll make out like a bandit. C'est la vie.
Cavaleer May 14th 2007 6:09PM
@3: I agree completely. Simple & fair.
Derelict May 11th 2007 3:27PM
Step 1: Be sure you form the party and set it to group loot (if you trust folks) and master loot (if you don't).
Step 2: Make sure the loot rules are clearly explained, while nobody is AFK, BEFORE starting.
Step 3: If someone ninjas after that, feel free to spam / write on the realm forums. However, you will likely get a lot of "QQ" responses.
We always do need first, then greed, then alts, then shard / sell. Our organized weekly groups give *all* non-needed items to a central character to sell on the AH, and the proceeds are split equally by in-game mail. It's a little work and recordkeeping (I do it for our group), but completely and utterly takes all of the anxiety out of looting (nobody even slows down on items not needed). Granted, this is not in a PuG (although once in a while we have an opening, folks PuG with our weekly group, and they're included in the "Weekly Bling Mail").
As long as things are agreed upon at the start, there should be minimal drama. If you feel strongly about need / only folks attending / alt issues ... YOU should make the group, and take the time to set down the looting guidelines. If you're not willing to spend the effort ... you get what you get :)
Derelict (http://www.agonalbreath.com)
Xaintrix May 11th 2007 3:30PM
Yeah, both shouldn't have rolled Need at all. I believe you should only roll Need with the Active character that participated and of course if it's an upgrade That's a NEED situation. Everything else gets muddled by semantics. "I NEED money, I NEED it for my alt, I NEED enchanting material..." Sorry, but those are Greed situations. Your alts didn't participate in the run, and everyone can use money/enchanting materials (for barter to get enchants if not an enchanter).
As for talking it out, tone and manners is all. If the rest of the group consents to it, and the person contributed to the group fairly, many times I won't MIND if they needed it. But I hate to get taken for granted. If the person just smashes up Need when it isn't apparent then I get miffed. Not swear-laden tirade miffed, but miffed nonetheless.
Nana May 11th 2007 3:36PM
Person in question:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dath'Remar&n=Mingka
A warlock decked out in BoE blues -- two epics at 51 -- definitely does not need stamina-less spirit-full Robes of Insight. Who is being greedy here?
In short, armory is evil.
el ranchero May 14th 2007 9:01AM
"my AH alt." I'm gonna use that next time. I had some huntard try to ninja the Robes of Arugal when I was the lone clothy in the group; it took several minutes of all 4 of us dressing him down to convince him not to need "for his alt." And, of course, it was like 5th run through SFK for the damn things.
Being someone in a small enough guild that I frequently have to resort to PUG's to quell my dungeon addiction, I've noticed that this type of crap happens A LOT, and that's when they bother to come up with an excuse (there's no small number of people who just hit "need" and keep going, hoping nobody notices). You'd think Blizzard would introduce some sort of functionality for party leaders where they could disable everyone's ability to roll need for stuff their character doesn't use, weaponwise and cloth/leather/mail/plate. I know leather and mail users "can" also use cloth, etc., but they never really do so I think it would solve more problems than it creates.
Thrillho May 11th 2007 3:47PM
Hehe number 6 has a good point there, those robes are worthless for a warlock.
Heike May 11th 2007 4:05PM
Her gear is impressive in that it's a ton of blues and some expensive BOEs and almost every piece is absolutely WRONG for a warlock - it's almost a lesson in how not to spend a ton of money to gear up your alt.
To the topic at hand - Rules should be established at the beginning. Personally, world drops BOE epics should be considered the same thing as greens and rolled on accordingly in PuGs below level 60.
idburns May 11th 2007 4:16PM
Sorry, but alts don't have any rights for drops. If you need it for an alt you better bring your high rolls or hope that the winner is willing to sell you the item because if no character in the party needs that item then it's fair game.
The hunter was wrong for rolling need but Mingka was wrong for assuming that her alt has any right to loot when she/he is not playing that alt.
idburns May 11th 2007 4:17PM
@6
Nice find. Looks like our "innocent victim of greed" is a bit greedy herself.
Dru May 11th 2007 4:38PM
In the same vein, what about gear for a different spec? If I'm running as, say, a resto shaman, but I find gear that would be perfect for an enhancement spec is it cool to roll on that? Just wondering.
Btw, I hope Tseric gets hit by a bus...
fbp May 11th 2007 4:38PM
One of the times it is acceptable to roll need for an alt. You are well above the level for the instance or mob, and are clearly in the group to help them progress.
Jason May 11th 2007 5:07PM
@ anyone who thought Mingka was the one with the alt, go get some reading comprehension.
To those of you taking the stance that she didn't need it either, I guess we found our ninja-looting hunter, huh?
sagedragoon79 May 11th 2007 5:16PM
BOE blues/purples are fair game, my stance is everyone roll need on it(just make sure noone does ninja) and if someone actually does want it, they can buy if from the winner.
On greens, in guild, we all roll need since noone should be wearing 'of the' gear at 70. If we are instancing pre 70, we still roll need, but if someone actually does need it, they'll speak up.
Frico19 May 11th 2007 6:00PM
You guys are seeing it a bit wrong here.
robes of insight is a WORLD DROP! so ANYONE in a group which doesnt trust/know the others will click need,definitely. Even though lvl 52 is a bit late for the item. Its the most powerful lvl 48(i think) drop with +25(about)int, some spirit and use: next spell 500 mana less. sells for 100-500g...
-> If I remember this righ btw I read somewhere that the pass on BoP/blues "ploicy" was made so that if no-one needed, it would be disenchanted and then rolled for (shard sells for more than the weap at vendor) In fact, theres only one way out of this: click greed and need like on normal items. In both cases, the computer rolls for you, so no difference AND you are inured a bit more against Ninjas
Oomfoofoo May 11th 2007 5:21PM
I've seen Alts roll vs. Mains far too many times on guild raids. Its depressing that a "part time toon" will willingly roll versus a 24/7 "full time main" character. More often than not, that alt is there for fun, and is not key to the raids success. Its a topic that really really bugs me to the point that I contemplated retirment.
I have since given up even arguing over it. I'm so tired of arguing over loot and loot rules
IMO Mains > Alts. Alts get scraps that everyone passes on that would otherwise get DE. If your Alt is the only class there that can equip/use/needs the item, than grats to you Mr or Mrs "Alt".
But If I lose 1 more drop to a "part time toon", I rather go un-guilded. Who needs the drama.
Oomfoofoo May 11th 2007 5:21PM
@ Dru
If it was my guild.
You would only be able to roll/bid on gear that you are speced for that run. Period. Not what you might re-spec for in the future.
If everyone passes, then its ffa for anyone to spend their DKP or take a chance with the dice.
theRaptor May 12th 2007 9:02AM
@13 I don't see any post confusing who Mingka was.
But The Armoury certainly shows her to have very good gear for her level, and a complete lack of understanding warlock itemization (more spirit than stam? lol). Given her terrible itemization I can understand why she wanted the Robes of Insight, otherwise I would say she was just greedy.