Tons of runs, for not a lotta loots...
by Dan Crislip 
May 11th 2007 at 9:00AM
An interesting forum topic has popped up on the World of Warcraft general forum today. It reflects on the amount of time we spend trying to gain one or two specific pieces of loot, only to have the gods of random drop-rates look unfavorably down upon us.
It is a vicious cycle of farming that has eaten away at hours upon hours of our lives, but we still do it. We still go after that one elusive item that taunts us from the virtual nether. "I have a 25% drop rate, but you can run this place a hundred times and never see me! Mwahahaha!..."
Players are recalling their 50+ runs for class chest from Upper Blackrock Spire, or their class helm from Scholomance. Mindtap Talisman seems to be a recurring theme, as well as the Tidal Charm. My worst experience was on my 67th run through UBRS for my Lightforge Shoulders from The Beast. They finally dropped, everyone congratulated me, and then the fury warrior rolled need. Ah well, water under the bridge as they say, especially since in my first Botanica run, I received the Spaulders of the Righteous.
Some would say, "if it doesn't drop this time, it has a better chance of dropping next time." Of course this isn't true. If you flip a coin 99 times and it comes up heads each time, what are the chances that it will be heads again? 50%, the same as that first flip. Many people suggest that blizzard should impliment a more intuitive loot system, that would at least check the classes that are there. For example, a wand would not drop if there were no mages, locks, or priests in the group; or, the Gloves of the Fallen Champion would not drop if a rogue, paladin, or shaman was not present.
I wonder what the new generation of players feel is an unreasonable wait-time for their level 70 class pieces. They might be even more upset, because they didn't know to expect this because they hadn't had to do this before with their Tier 0 (now Dungeon Set 1), Tier 1, and Tier 2. At least Blizzard implemented the token system to get the better class gear, to avoid the troubles of disenchanting class pieces while other people get nothing.
Have you run a dungeon an inconceivable number of times for an item? What is it, and how long has it taken you?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Bosses, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
FadedReality May 11th 2007 9:15AM
Devout Gloves... I ran for those near endlessly just trying to get them for the 0.5 quest.... for some reason it never dawned on me they were BOE until a guildie bought them for me.
I definitely agree with a loot system overhaul. The straight random percentages are archaic and to run Strat over and over seeing Paladin set pieces dropping from trash every other run was infuriating.
I've gotten really lucky since BC came out and have seen http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27890 as well as 2 pieces of the Hallowed set in all of maybe 10 total runs through the respective instances. Too bad I'm shadow spec and only keep the Hallowed for the off chance that I feel like healing >.
Skibba May 11th 2007 9:25AM
74 UBRS run's before I saw the Felstriker drop in UBRS.
I formed most of the groups I was in so i'd always bring sword rogues and warriors I knew werent going to roll on the dagger against me :-).
Caldaren May 11th 2007 9:20AM
*whips out the old man hat and the cane.*
Funny thing...one of the major factors that drew me to WoW from EQ was the abundance of loot. Greens, blues, purples, etc. EQ didn't really have a tiered system of loot that I'm aware of, and it was truly refreshing to use quest rewards and crafted items.
So when I read a thread like the one linked, yeah, I can talk about how I've gone on 12-13 Steamvault runs and have yet to see any hunter d3 drop, but really, this is minor in the grand scheme of things. Compared to other games in the genre, WoW has one of the friendliest, if not THE friendliest, system of giving you rewards for time invested.
Remember MC? 6 bosses, 2-3 peices of loot each? BWL? Even sunken temple gave you 5 bosses with a decent drop each.
But we've come to expect decent rewards for little to no effort. The instances now are Maraudon/Dire Maul style instances, 1/3 to 1/4 the length of a pre-Maraudon (chronologically speaking) instance.
So on one hand, as a fellow WoW player...yeah, man, I've done x number of runs, and have NEVER seen y drop. On the other...I played a monk in EQ, and a buddy and I spent the better part of 4 days camping Raster 24/7 to get a single quest peice for a single peice of armor.
We should expect less gratification in a game we spend so many hours in. Let items be a reward that come incidentally, not a goal in and of itself.
Of course, this was all pre-TBC, too. I have to say the amount of time required to farm in order to gear up post-Kara takes much of the "loot is incidental" out of equation.
Joeboo May 11th 2007 9:22AM
I will never forget that i did countless run of UBRS on my mage to get that Magister Robe from Drak and never saw it. On my third run of UBRS with my priest, this robe dropped and i got it cause the only mage in the raid already got it.
NH2 May 11th 2007 9:25AM
I agree with #2 though it'd be darned nice if Murmur would drop something other than the priest chest piece for me. /shakes fist Ah, old EQ, I don't miss you all that much...
Tigraine May 11th 2007 9:31AM
Hey, I just wanted to start complaining!
I as a Prot-Warrior am trying for a month or so now to get a new sword.
So, you're equipped with the Torn Heart Axe and want something better? Where to go?
Right. Kharazan and Mechanar heroic.
King's Defender or The Sun Eater from Mechanar, both are very good Tanking Swords, giving me as a Human +5 Skill to Swords.
Everything would be just great, if not:
NONE OF THOSE WILL DROP!
Yesterday was my 35th Mechanar Run and I saw the Epic DPS Legs drop 8 times. All Holy Paladins in my Guild now have Epic Melee DPS Legs, 4 times we had to diss them. I've seen the Cloth Heal boots drop about 5 times, and the Epic gems get vendored cause all ppl have them already.
But. No Sun Eater.
So, let's hope for a Kings Defender every week we do the Chess Event.
What happens? Nothing!
So .. And to get frustration to a new level.
Yesterday we ran Heroic with two Groups. One was with me, the other Group was led by another Warrior from my Guild.
It was his third time to Mechanar Heroic.
Guess what? My Id dropped the Plate DPS Legs, his dropped the Sun eater. (And his Group took 3 hours to clear, we did it in 50 Minutes)
And best thing about it: When his Raid (he's in another Kharazan Group than me) first downed the Chess Event they had King's Defender and the Heal-Shield every Pally in my Guild calls for. (And he got that Kings Defender and the Sun Eater)
Guess what? We haven't seen a Kings Defender nor a Shield while clearing Kharazan for almost 2-3 Months now. Great isn't it?
I start to hate this game.
haust May 11th 2007 9:34AM
Well, a friend of mine tolds me that Karazhan is the place for cloth heal loots. I have yet to see them.... (Ok we have just down the Shade of Aran, but anyway). Paladin loots on the other way are raining.
I just don't understand. If loots are selected from the loot table with a simple random then I am out of luck for a long time :p :D
chimera May 11th 2007 9:34AM
Maiden of Virtue won't drop my healer mace :(
I ran LBRS 28 times on my mage in the old days to see a damage leg (skyshroud) drop from Omokk... I was lucky it was a guild run and explained the situation so they passed it for me...
Dracula Jones May 11th 2007 9:39AM
When it came to raid gear, EQ did have a tiered system very similar to WOW. You had to raid and hope for a random drop (or boss drop) for your class and then either pay DKP or be awarded the item over other members of your class. If I had to guess, I'd say WOW's system was lifted wholesale from EQ by Tigole and Furor.
But other than raid sets, anything worth equipping was a rare drop off of a rare spawn, which is where WOW differs (thankfully) from EQ. Oh, the hours spent camping the Ykesha!
Dargovon May 11th 2007 9:54AM
UBRS, over 120 runs to get Finkils skinner to finally drop. Now it's completely useless and I DE'd it.
vincenzo7 May 11th 2007 9:58AM
i ran shadow labs 50+ times. exhaulted with lower city, and never seen the Platinum Shield of the Valorous Drop. i ran botanica about 45 times. exhaulted with sha'tar. and saw the aegis of the sunbird drop ONCE and that was when i was 500 rep away from exhaulted. needless to say, i'm rockin Crest of the Sha'tar and am retired from all non-heroic dungeons :)
Krick May 11th 2007 10:18AM
I've spent countless hours farming the rare spawn "Azshir the Sleepless" in the Scarlet Monastery Graveyard for the "Necrotic Wand" for my level 30 alt shadow priest. I've had just about everything drop off of him except the frickin' wand. 35% drop rate, my ass. I eventually gave up and just started leveling my priest so I can get an Umbral Wand off the auction house at level 40.
Savemeh May 11th 2007 10:23AM
If you put too much weight on one drop, then you are likely to be frustrated and disappointed. That's why I try to have various items I am seeking so that not only am I not running the same instance every night, I'm more likely to eventually get something I need.
But yeah, before we instituted a point system way back in MC, I used to lose every random roll for set gear. Then I was way behind once points were distributed. That's almost worse then not having it drop.
braydn May 11th 2007 1:06PM
i was doing Molten Core with my guild (Destined Souls on Icecrown) all last summer from May to October 2006 and i slowly got each peice of the Felheart set, all except the Felheart Robes, which drop off of Golemagg. We killed him so many times, i am sure well over 60 or more times, and never, not once, did the Felheart robes drop. We saw the mage robes drop like 50% of the time, and the other 50% were warrior chest. i gave up on the robes and got heavy into PVP from November 2006 until the expansion came out and then it didn't matter anymore because i got a green chest that was better anyway. Ce la vie....now i just need to work toward the T4-T5-T6 sets, and i am sure i will never see a complete set of those before the next expansion comes out....in any case, it is fun to work hard for cool gear, but really frustrating when the one thing you want most or need most will never drop.
I think the idea someone mentioned about the loot system recognizing what classes are in the raid and dropping only items meant for those classes that are present, at least you would know for sure then that something will drop more often that you need.
Erbodie May 11th 2007 1:14PM
I have been running Shattered Halls and Shadow Labs an ungodly number of times (like 30 times) in order to get Beast Lord Hanguards http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=27474 and the Sonic Spear http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=27903. Never ever have I seen these things drop. Mega frustrating given the time it takes to clear these instances.
bliSSter May 11th 2007 10:39AM
This is a really timely topic, imo, due to others over the past couple of days. I really wish that PvE offered something similar to the rings from Brood of Nozdormu or the Violet Eye - the rep gains aren't bad any longer, but you can't completely outfit every character to go raiding purely from rep rewards. I frankly didn't even mind the token/rep system in AQ20 for that 3-piece set, with the exception that running the ruins of AQ was a complete and utter pain in the arse. :P
With the PvP patch in 2.0 and the addition of the arena system, PvP players are rewarded eventually via their honor/arena points. It might take a seriously long while for a casual player, but at some point they'll get some solid gear upgrades from their time spent in game...and it isn't based solely on a percentage chance for a drop. Those who have high play-time in PvP will see those rewards, and benefit accordingly, far quicker than a casual player will.
Similar benefits for PvE wouldn't suck, given the amount of time spent. There will always be new carrots added to the game - this patch we get 2-3 new rep and quest areas as well as new 25-man and 5-man instance content, so I don't believe this would truly degrade monthly subscriber numbers. Tiered gear could still be kept as-is, with drops for shared classes at random from bosses. Would be nice for the PvE game not to be a huge slogfest thrown to chance among the gods of random numbers.
Course, I know plenty of people who hated the ZG coins and tokens when they were first implemented. I liked the changes that were patched in later and we even started clearing ZG in our raiding guild every 3-days because there were slick drops, nice rep gain, and the enchants were great. Perhaps something similar could be implemented on a larger scale to reward time invested in the PvE game? /shrugs
Catur May 11th 2007 10:50AM
Ahh.. the good old days... I ran LBRS for weeks to get my final shoulder piece for my Hunter set and never, ever, ever, ever got it..
I abandonned LBRS, as many were annoyed at me for loggin on and asking the usual question: Anyone for LBRS? Pugged it, grouped it with friends, guildies and RaidForce members til i was sick of those 4 letters.. but perseverence paid off and 1 final run saw Wyrmm reward me with my shoulders!!! :D
Went last week for the first time with a guildies alt and lo and behold: The shoulders dropped, the BS gloves and almost every other drop was hunter mail or ranged goodness.. My fellow party member (a 70 hunter like me) just laughed and joked about the pestering i'd given all the guild for the BS shoulders.. Irony anyone?
Rihahn May 11th 2007 10:59AM
If they have the technology to figure out what people are wearing for battleground matches, they should be able to determine what classes are in the raid group and adjust the loot tables accordingly... Especially for BOE drops for classes that arent present which just end up as DE fodder.
maillist May 11th 2007 11:04AM
WoW is just a loot grind ... always has been ... always will be ...
Its getting even more so it seems lately with the heroic dungeons requiring faction status
I quit WoW because of it.
Karl May 11th 2007 11:05AM
Dang Baron is still not dropping his horse...I think he is a little selfish. Going to kill him again just because of that.
Seriously though, it does see that whatever class I am currently on, that the items for my main or my alt (whichever I am not playing at the time) drops. I don’t really care about weapons for my Paladin, as I have forged my Lionheart Blade. Now just collecting those Primals...
I don’t really have room to complain though. I have come to accept that I am the world's worst at getting collection quests completed because the drop rates are horrible for me. Why should class loot drops be any different?