Arena battles and "Must-See PvP"
by Mike Schramm 
May 21st 2007 at 2:26PM
Terra Nova has a good piece up asking a question I've been thinking about ever since I saw video of the WoW arena fights at WSVG: even if Blizzard (or anyone else) sets up the technology for us to watch professional arena fights live, are they really going to be "must see PvP"?Joshua from TN says yes-- he says he enjoys watching for tips, including how the players move, what targets they take, what strategies they employ, and so on. Personally, I have to disagree. I enjoy playing arena or fighting in the battlegrounds as much as the next guy, but when it comes to watching just the ingame fight, I just can't get into it. Part of it really is the presentation; WSVG could do a much better job explaining what's happening, just by showing the teams' makeup and their separate goals before they mix it up, and also by getting a new announcer ("It seems" like he repeats himself, and "that's going to be the case"). They do pull it off once-- in the China team vs. the Pandemic match (which I can't direct link to for some reason-- WSVG should fix that, too), the fight comes down to a mage vs. a warrior, and that fight is simple and easy enough to understand that the tension actually builds to an amazing victory. With the rest of the matches, though, things are too crazy and chaotic for anyone but a really knowledgeable viewer to keep it interesting.
So even if the presentation was broadcast quality, I would think that the only people interested in watching these videos were the top arena players themselves. No one else would have the knowledge they need to catch every spell interrupt and every strategy choice. And the natural appeals of other sports, I think-- the glory of a football player making the play for his team-- don't apply here unless you show the actual people behind the keyboards, or at least show what that big Tauren warrior is doing when he goes for the priest instead of the mage. Will arena PvP ever be a really good spectator sport?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Machinima, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
John May 21st 2007 2:41PM
Nope.
I don't get why watching games is entertaining. I play, not watch.
John May 21st 2007 2:43PM
err.
Edit my last post to include, I play...badly.
Alch May 21st 2007 2:53PM
Objective based game play is much better to spectate. You do not need to know the ins and outs of each class yet you can understand the flow of the game and who is winning. Good players will still get the little things that win the match while novice will get to cheer an objective being made.
Broadcasting Deathmatch (face it that what the arena is) with no control points or power up items would be extremely hard. No game does this. Quake 3 team deathmatch is fun to watch but the teams are not just thrown in a big pit. They try to control weapons and amour points giving them an advantage.
I feel sorry for the broadcaster (I think it was Dunn) I am sure he had very little notice that he would be broadcasting WOW in a few weeks. Then again I have been a fan of Counter Strike for years and the way WSVG (TSN) always did the broadcast I was confused so maybe it is just them.
Lilith May 21st 2007 2:54PM
Personally, I like watching PVP videos for an added perspective on classes that I've not leveled to 70. Plus the music is usually the best part if the poster has a sense of humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5gyWKJgNZo
Freehugz May 21st 2007 3:01PM
If they built a spectator mode it would be quite big I think. Well, for 2v2 and 3v3. 5v5 is just too big to be worth anything imo.
I'd imagine it having 3 thin bars over every players head. 1 for HP, 1 for Mana/Rage/Energy, and a casting with the name of the spell above it. Then you'd have a scrolling combat text style thing over all the characters with debuffs, damage take and dispells n stuff. I'd watch that.
Belthasar May 21st 2007 3:07PM
If you aren't good, you won't enjoy watching it. As you've said, most people won't catch the strategy choices and realize what is skill and what is luck.
That being said, I'd love to watch the fights.
PS - Daniel Howell is retarded. I'm glad to read a post not made by him. I'm sure he wouldn't enjoy spectator arenas, because 1) He'd be too busy talking to himself in 3rd person, and 2) He wouldn't be able to keep up with the action and what it signifies.
Freehugz May 21st 2007 3:07PM
btw where's the topic telling me whether or not the patch is coming tomorrow?
tomhennessy May 21st 2007 3:34PM
Mike, have you ever seen a Korean WC3 VoD? Search youtube for "moon wc3"
This is how eSports should be done - it does humanize by showing the (pasty) competitors, but it focusses on game-relevant footage and commentary by ex-pros (and Korean women...who can argue?).
Assuming that the average player is too daft to understand what's going on is a bit short sighted. If you'd only ever played touch football with your pals in the backyard, a game of pro football would be totally confusing to you. Be a bit more broad-minded - watching pro games with good anouncers teaches you to watch for the counters and interrupts. You realize that though can't do what the 400lb footballer can do, you can at least understand the strategy, and apply it to your 1510 rated team.
Birthmark May 21st 2007 5:46PM
A game I used to play had an awesome spectator mode. Medal of Honor: Allied Assualt. You could follow players around and watch their every move and tactics and you could choose who you wanted to observe. That would be so sick for arena.
Den May 21st 2007 7:12PM
It isn't a warrior in that last fight, it is a pally.
Like #9 the replays would be better if they used a "in game" replay style. If any one has played the sporting games (Madden/NHL) they would know the style of replay I mean. I think it would work really well.
It shouldn't be that hard to pull off either. If Blizzard were to make a WoW Replay Viewer and a way to record the events of the games in the arena, you should only have to download the data file of each fight. Then using your own game data you should be able to load it up and watch it.
Is something I would get in to. But then maybe some players wouldn't like people seeing how they play.
Keystone May 21st 2007 8:26PM
Why did none of the Mages Spellsteal the Blessing of Freedom from the Warriors? I know it's a lot of mana, but it beats letting a Warrior pound on your face...
klink-o May 21st 2007 8:59PM
The main problem I saw in those videos was the was almost no way to see what the score was. It needed something somewhere of the screen to show each team's health, mana, etc. at all times. They did have the health bars up over the characters but the video was such a poor quality they were basically worthless. Also, I would have liked them to preview each team before the start with a brief report on their class/spec make-up.
Junzim May 22nd 2007 6:06AM
Ugh, that Commentator was horrible. Just horrible.
I think WoW Arena or BGs COULD be a decent spectator sport, they'd just need to get a commentator who knew what he was talking about - he got to dub over in EDITING and he STILL sucked.
Points:
There's a final battle which is mage vs paladin but THROUGHOUT the commentator called the paladin a warrior! How many warriors do you know who cast Blessing of Wisdom on themselves mid battle - much less HOLY LIGHT.
If the commentator had a decent understanding of PvP mechanics he'd have been able to deliver a decent commentary. For instance, there's a DPS race between a warrior and a Shadow Priest, I can tell what the priest is casting and the warrior is using, a decent commentator would have been building on this tussle!
Heck there's even a moment of absolute drama in there which is GOLD DUST to a good commentator! Warrior v Shadowpriest:
The Warrior is on 5% HP, the Priest casts Shadow Word Death - the Animation is easy to see even though it's instant, it doesn't kill the warrior so the SW:D hits the priest effectively ending the fight! That's a do-or-die last-gasp gamble from the Shadow Priest, a desperate attempt to kill the warrior before the warrior kills him - it has masses of drama built right in and the commentator doesn't even mention it!
If they turned on Spellcasting on Nameplates that'd also give us an idea of what's going on. Ultimately the commentary sounds like the ramblings of someone who's done a few WSG's and that's about it. Inaccurate, boring and banal.
Things like: "They're using the Warrior, Mage combo to beat down on the other Mage" - It's a frikkin' 3v3 battle! They're hardly going to be using 'the warrior paladin' combo to beat down on him! It's like saying "And the DPSers are DPSing and the Healers are Healing"
No commentary on fat crits (still evident by fluctuating health bars), on combos or anything.
The presentation was flat and pathetic.
Think I've ranted enough now but jeez, I finally see how good arenas could be as a spectator game. It takes a terrible, terrible announcer to balls it up as comprehensively as that to usher in this moment of clarity.