Catching up to the rest of the raid
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
May 25th 2007 at 10:18AM
My guild isn't exactly Death and Taxes, but we've done pretty well in raiding post-BC. We have two groups that can clear Karazhan and we've been working on the 25-mans. However, our raiding schedule is Monday, Wednesday and Thursday -- the three days that I've had night classes since the beginning of January. So I've mostly been sitting and waiting on the sidelines with my rogue while leveling up a pally. Now, finally, the summer is here, and I was able to attend my second-ever Karazhan raid Thursday night.
I came prepared with elixirs, potions, poisons and everything else one might need for a raid. I had read up on the strategies and even had a little map. There was only one problem -- I pretty much had no clue what I was doing. There's a big difference between reading the strategies and executing them properly when everyone else in the raid has done it before. In the space of a couple hours, I:
- Became lost the instant I got inside and required a summon
- Got confused about the raid symbols and broke the shackles on a ghost
- Spent half the time on Shade of Aran desperately spamming Kick when it was on cooldown
- Killed my pawn on the chess event
- Got lost again after the chess event and ran directly into a flesh-eating beast
- And, last but not least, got enfeebled during our second try on Prince and ran for safety right under an about-to-drop infernal.
About the only thing I didn't do is blow up the raid on Aran, but it still wasn't a stellar performance. Needless to say, I was embarassed, and was almost relieved when Malchazeen didn't drop -- I hadn't played well enough to deserve it. I took my new cloak, apologized for sucking, and headed off to farm, promising myself that I'd do better next time -- if they ever let me come again.
How do you catch up to the rest of your raid when they're ahead of you in progression? And how do you handle the gear gap when joining up with such a group? Is there any way to compensate for fight experience and gear, or do you just have to sort of tag along until you're equal?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
jess May 25th 2007 10:38AM
I had a bit of a wake up call when I did Black Morass with my guild and we realized I didn't have the tanking gear for the second boss. I was really embarassed but I've upgraded a few pieces and Blizzard helpfully gave my heavy clefthoof some more armor so I got a huge post in mitigation. Of course I'm going into Kara soon for the first time and I hope I don't make an ass of myself as well.
Mats May 25th 2007 10:39AM
At least you know you sucked. Most of our rogues don't believe that they can suck, and brag about there high dps, the one they had before Aran meleed his ass after he kicked the wrong spell.
Hotorihanzo May 25th 2007 10:44AM
I am sort of in the same boat as you. My guild is currently raiding Kara and I am busting my hump to hit 70. I will ding tonight. In the mean time, i have been trying to multitask by getting keyed up for kara while leveling, but havent had much luck with that either. To the point....If you guild asked you to come on the raid, knowing that you had no experience there, they should be patient and try to help you out as you go. Do you guys use Vent? I have found that running an instance for the first time is MUCH easier when an experienced person is telling me what to do, where to go, what symbols are what. If they give you grief, and are serious about it. I would be looking for some new people to raid with.
Ryan May 25th 2007 10:45AM
Suck less, l2p. Seriously though, it's just one of those things where you have to go through it to learn it correctly. The first time through you should be more focused on not screwing anything up than trying to top the meters. The most important things are making sure you're not doing those things that will completely wipe the raid, like breaking flame wreath. Second focus on not dying. Then, and only then, focus on pumping out as much healing/dps as possible.
Adam May 25th 2007 10:47AM
The gear gap shouldn't be much of a problem. If you're horrendously undergeared then you just need to run more 5-mans to get your gear. You can get some pretty good gear before going into Kara, gear that's good enough to hold your own.
As for the skill/experience gap: you pretty much just have to tag along until you get the hang of the fights and such. But you shouldn't expect to walk in there on your first night and do as well as people who've been doing it for a while now.
Shiro May 25th 2007 10:53AM
You'll get it eventually. :)
I saw this a lot with my characters. I was in a guild a long, long while back that was doing MC. We were clearing the whole thing, but we couldn't get past Razorgore in BWL.
Then, when we'd finally get past him, we'd get owned by Vael. The guild was falling apart and so I switched to a new guild. They were doing AQ40 at that point. On my first BWL run I was *completely* clueless. Add to it the fact that I had played a Druid or Warrior through most of my MC career, and I was going to BWL as my Rogue.
I died DPSing mages on Razor, I blew up on Vael (thankfully I didn't take anyone else with me), burned to a crisp by one of the drakes (the one with the LoS strat), then got munched by Cromag when I forgot to use my sand. Everyone laughed because on most of those encounters I was the only person to die. :P
Still, you pick yourself up and dust off. Then you go back next week and get better at it.
The only other alternative is to do what I've seen from other guilds. Gear yourself up so well that it compensates for the fact that you don't know how to play. :)
Andrew Martin May 25th 2007 10:55AM
As a healer the getting lost thing strikes a chord especially well. Like for the most part in instances All I do is look at bars so I'm not so aware of the lay of the land as someone who's free to look around more in the instances.
John May 25th 2007 11:10AM
Ditto to all the previous, and also, if a guild were to yell at someone in this position anyway...I'd say /gquit...unless you like that sort of thing.
someone May 25th 2007 11:16AM
You cant do anything, the only way to learn is to be there, I wouldnt worry about it too much.
Plus I dont trust someone who hasnt wiped the raid at least once.
Raynia May 25th 2007 11:19AM
I was like #6. I had been in a guild that did decently well, always around 4th place in progression on our realm. I had tanked everything through MC, BWL, and was up to Huhu in AQ40 when I decided to take a break from the game and went to school for six months. As a tank it was no problem learning the maps and all that so I never got lost, and I always knew the fights because I had been there for learning them.
Then I came back from school...my guild had exploded and many friends had transfered so I followed them. The new guild had an overwhelming abundance of warriors so they decided I should bring over my blue-geared druid and try her in Naxx. I didn't know where anything was, I was NOT used to healing in 40 mans, I didnt know any of the fights, and I knew very few people in the guild. Oh, and my raid leader wasnt exactly patient with newbs like me. But, I figured it out and the best advice I can give is ASK questions! After the raid, I would ask the raid leader questions (never during unless it was to repeat directions). Always, always ask people of your class questions. This really helped me to become a better healer, and especially during fights like say Loethb where it was important that you heal the right way. Ask your buddies questions. Ask everyone questions! No one will dislike the fact you are trying to be better at what you do.
Freehugz May 25th 2007 11:33AM
lol. Good read. This happens to everyone when they're playing cath up with a guild. Best advice I can give you is to go with someone who's the same class as you and ask questions. I went to gruul's lair a couple of weeks back and had another druid whisper me "I've never been here before, anything I should know?"
and I explained to her exactly what she needed to do and be focused on. It's alot easier to get caught up when you only have to pay attention to a couple of things.
twh May 25th 2007 11:47AM
I wouldn't worry about it too much. You'll learn and eventually, it'll become instinctual and you'll back on it and laugh.
Paw May 25th 2007 11:57AM
I would say to enjoy the time you get running them, regardless of how well you do or do not think you did. If you are with a group of people you like and who like you, it is all the better. There are people who will likely never get into the big runs.
Me, for example.
I've been in two guilds so far and hated both of them. As an adult gamer, I didn't care for the juvenile expectations I found in those guilds...and both were headed by people in their early 30's. I'm married, have a career, I'm in a Master's program, I have teenagers of my own (all girls...none wants to play unfortunately)who demand attention, dogs, lawn, car care, a real life so to speak. I don't have the kind of time the typical guild expects of it's members to remain on the roster. I decided after the second attempt at having someone else's fun (the guild leader/officers get the most out of guilds imho), and after having one of these guild leaders try to chastise me for not following some farming schedule he put everyone one (I was supposed to farm for mageweave off the warlocks in STV for 2 hours....yeah right) that I would likely forever forgo the guild lifestyle. As this great leader ranted I took every piece of gear off that the guild had provided and dropped it on the ground, forever destroying it, told him as much, and /gquit. I guess I could have kept it, but it felt better to drop it.
I decided right then that if I could not run an instance (for example) with a PUG, that instance will have to wait until I could get one going. Period. Luckily, I have a found a few friends with similar opinions on my server. We are all "adults"...ie: married more than a few years, kids, many on them teenagers. If we see each other on when we log on, we may or may not hook up for some group questing or instance. Either way we usually group and bs on the /p chat from opposite ends of the map.
Thus, I likely will never experience the full end-game content once I am there (my toons are in their 40's...I have a hard time picking one...) So long as the group of guys and gals you are running with are cool with your play, go with it and have fun. You'll get better with practice, and you'll have the comfort of knowing the worst you'll get is some friendly chiding about how "u sux dood". All in fun.
Swiftlydead May 25th 2007 12:30PM
Death and Taxes isn't exactly Nihilum, either. HORDE FOR THE MOTEHRFUCKING WIN.
wow May 25th 2007 2:42PM
It happens to all of us (all of us who are not hardcore raiders). Being apologetic and paying attention so that you don't make the same mistake twice is generally enough to keep you in the good graces of those around you. I know that I don't get really irritated at somebody for screwing up (even if it wipes the raid, as it often does in Kara), unless they do it repeatedly.
Lori May 25th 2007 3:45PM
This post possibly brings up a drawback with smaller raid groups. Back when I first started running MC, I was behind most others but it wasn't such a problem to be inexpierenced and under geared as there were others of my class to do the important jobs while I watched and learned. I then knew better what was expected of me when it was my turn at the specific jobs and there were others to step in to help if I screwd up. Others were much more forgiving since a screw up wasn't so likely to cause a wipe.
With smaller raid groups where everyone must do their job to perfection, the only way to l2play is by playing and making mistakes to learn by. This is ok if your guild understands and accepts the situation. However, it can be a problem getting invited to raids when someone is available that already has the expierence and knows their job. The others also seem to be less forgiving when a newbie keeps causing wipes, causing them frustration and high repair bills.
viktorie May 25th 2007 3:58PM
I'm having the opposite problem. I've been running Kara with my guild weekly since our first venture through the gate. A few of us--all adults with jobs and commitments, mind you--have worked really hard since the expansion came out to get the best gear we can, either from farming/crafting or running countless "just to the first boss" instances. We've read strategies, we've fine-tuned talent specs a point at a time, and put in the time and effort to really understand the role our respective classes have. All of this on a few hours a night, if we're lucky, and weekends. Our progression is only up to (but not through)The Curator, but it has been steady and for the most part, it has been satisfying.
The problem is all of those people who ding 70, run Black Morass, and want to go to Kara the next day (and once, THAT day). They aren't prepared. They haven't bothered grinding rep in any faction, haven't run any Heroics...sometimes they don't even know how to play their class, such as a warlock who never trained Banish. We're a casual guild, we don't even use a DKP system for Kara, and none of us want to be assholes about it, but at the same time, these "newbies" to Kara are holding us back.
I've directed my GL to the Officer's Quarters article on tactfully handling these problems, and he doesn't seem to recognize our frustration. He wants everyone to experience new content, and rightfully so. He's the first to drop out of the raid to make room for a newbie, even when he's the best player of that class we have. Altogether, the best kind of GL you could hope for...except when you want to progress.
Kara has room for ten players only, and they need to be at the top of their game. That doesn't necessarily mean equipment, dependence on equipment can be a crutch that helps lazy players get away without doing their homework. Knowing how to play your class and your role in the instance is more important than anything, and if you train all your lvl 70 spells fifteen minutes before showing up at the door, you shouldn't be there.
Also, when someone gives up their spot in the raid to you so you can go there for the first time, don't ignore any advice they give you. That person worked damn hard to figure out the timing in encounters, and what curses/spells to use most effectively, and they aren't passing it along to you because they want to tell you how to play. They want you to succeed. You know who you are.
aled May 27th 2007 11:56PM
Hay, im 66 atm and when I ding 70 I have been inited to raid with he best raiding guild on the sever - now I have never ever raided before, but its something I rly want to try.
But his guild are not gunna run 5 mans with me to get me the loot I need for raiding..
And even when I do get the loot are thay gnna wanna do kara with me, when thay are working on gruul atm.
well I will have to see how it gos - but can see me ending up a lot like you ;p
lost and dead...