Forum Post of the Day: Fair play is so unfair
by David Bowers 
May 30th 2007 at 1:00PM
His post, entitled "Blizzard killed PvP guilds," is a rant against the new battleground matching system, and it begins with the following logic: "Why run BG premades anymore? All you do is get matched up with other premades that are going to drag games out extremely long."
The first responder to his opening post sees clear through this transparent argument: "so you're saying its too hard now that you are matched against non-noobs?" Later on, Drysc replies, in his characteristic way, "Fair and challenging gameplay? The horror..."
Then, surprisingly, another gnome brought out the following suggestion:
"everyone q in greens and when u loadin, change your gear... should work."
Translated into normal English, this means that "everyone should first queue up for battle with inferior gear, then switch to more powerful gear after arriving in the battleground."
Nethaera popped in to point out the errors in this second gnome's thinking (if not his spelling), making it clear that Blizzard is one step ahead of tricksy gnomes: "The check also looks in inventory, the bank, and in the mailbox. Good try though!"
Thus it is that fairness, despite having "nerfed the hell out of any PvP guild," has nonetheless won the day. PvP guilds may indeed have a larger challenge ahead of them now, especially with reports of increased queue times, but every true sportsman or sportswoman who takes up the challenge of facing others in battleground competition should be pleased to, at last, contend mostly against groups of equally matched players.
We here at WoW Insider will be on the lookout for any future posts on the official WoW forums which may try to convince you that war is peace, that ignorance is strength, that freedom is slavery, or that being good is actually bad.
[Heroes of WoW comic excerpted from worldofwar.net]
Filed under: Odds and ends, PvP, Humor
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Derek May 30th 2007 1:22PM
Yes! But does it check spec? Nothing like a prot warrior in epic gear to throw the system sideways...
Rich May 30th 2007 1:25PM
I think the matching system should really only be on the small BGs and the Arena. AV doesn't need it, there are enough people that there are pre-mades on each side. (Although, when I zone in and see 15 Marshals from the same server, I might as well /afk out. LOL ) I like a challenge and the large number on the BG really negates any benefit pre-mades smaller than 10 people.
Being in a 15 man BG with a 5 or 10 man premade on the other side, just makes the BG a waste of time. My 1st outing into the Eye of the Storm was against an 8 man Marshal pre-made. Every time I turned around I was getting slaughtered. I didn't even get a chance to survey the map. When they started camping the GY that when I left.
Matt Rossi May 30th 2007 1:30PM
I remember my days in Alterac Valley, and I freely admit I was just there to farm honor, not even HK's or what have you. I was all about getting my gear. But I didn't do it by hanging out in the cave, I got in there and got my face mashed into the ground for my gear. These guys are just a variation of the cave crew, they don't want to risk losing an imaginary fight against other pretend people. It's sad.
futura May 30th 2007 1:32PM
@1
Umm how would a epic'd prot warrior throw the system sideways?
/shrug
tython25 May 30th 2007 1:33PM
People are still missing the point, even in this article. The ARENA was designed to be a fair pvp fighting area. The BG's (with inferior gear) are designed for fun. What's the point in playing now with longer queue times and longer and harder matches?
It's taking people much longer to gain honor. This is maybe good for the casual who doesn't like getting rolled by a premade but it's bad for people that enjoy organized PvP.
Blizzard tried to do the right thing to balance PvP but instead, made the already less played BG's even more painful. This is still the World of Raidcraft. Sitting it Shat next to my enemies takes all the WAR out of the game.
Making it so that permades with good gear get matched up in a shorter amount of time instead of gear being the primary factor would go a long way. Most Pvpers don't mind a tough match; they just don't want every match to be long and challenging.
Charlie May 30th 2007 1:39PM
Here's the trick--
Go to a vendor, sell all your leet epix, queue up, then buy back all your stuff. Matching system defeated if you must.
Just pray you don't DC before you buy your crap back. =)
Scalin May 30th 2007 1:44PM
Currently, I'm trying to AV with my 60 hunter, trying to get 9 more marks so I can buy myself a PvP mount once I finish farming the 500g on my 70 warrior to get the epic riding skill.
I've tried for the past couple days (make that a week) to get into AV. I haven't gotten into a single game in the 2+ hours of wait, whereas a level 60 lock friend of mine can get into 2 or more games in that time. The reason: my hunter used to be a raider, and is sitting in t1 and t2, along with a few other random MC/BWL epics.
I agree with the theory of item matching. If I'm taking my 19 mage through WSG for the ring, seeing as how he's not twinked in the least (let's hear it for barely having 300hp), I'd like to play against other such guys just trying to pick up a couple quick items. But, as has been said by others here, it's just not needed in AV. 3 people in greens can eat my purple'd out hunter for breakfast. Sure, I might take one or two of them down, but the point is I'm not all super powerful.
Let me AV once again Blizz, pretty please?
Kager May 30th 2007 1:56PM
We were looking forward to this new battleground matching feature, so we decided to start up a 15 man organized AB, (during AB holidays) to see if we could get some good pvp going and farm us some points against other pre-mades. We queued shortly after 4pm pacific...
And after 2 hours of no queue popping up, we gave up and quit.
The battleground matching system sounds great in theory, but its a little TOO selective when trying to find you opponents.
For sure this limits the uber groups from farming pugs, but if it means you can't run an organized group at all, then whats the point of organized groups to begin with?
If we really wanted to farm points, we would just afk or stinkyqueue in av's anyways.
David Bowers May 30th 2007 1:56PM
tython25, I understand the attractiveness of the idea that you can just form a group, fight in the battlegrounds, and win-win-win every time, without any "long" or "challenging" matches, as you say. But it seems to me that too many people fall into the thinking that says the point of WoW is just to get the best gear with the least amount of effort possible, and never think that the activity required to get that gear should be meaningful in any way.
I mean honestly, it seems to me that if someone wants non-challenging gameplay, there's plenty of farming and grinding to do in the game. I don't see why PvP should be an easy grind for hardcore PvPers, but an insurmountable wall of failure for causuals.
If a casual player is to have any success at all in battlegrounds, there needs to be some way to level the playing field a bit. We've been suffering in match after match against impossible premades for soooo long now. That sort of battleground may have been fun for you, but they weren't not fun for the people you used to beat every time without any effort, and they have rights to a fair chance sometimes too.
Tridus May 30th 2007 2:00PM
@5:
"Fun" is relative. I don't particularly find it fun to queue for AB, get a PUG of all sorts of mishmashes of gear, and be lined up against a premade tier 3 team on vent. That happened far to regularily before BC came out and I stopped PvPing entirely.
This especially gets me: "they just don't want every match to be long and challenging."
It must be horrible for people to not be able to steamroll over people with inferior gear for free honor. I'm crying on the inside, really.
Ichthus May 30th 2007 2:06PM
Add a way to make sure that some of the potentially and usually extremely long battlegrounds have a way to wrap up in a certain period of time.
Adding a countdown timer to Warsong Gulch would help stop all of that darned turtling.
Bootsanator May 30th 2007 2:44PM
Turtling FTL.
It seems, a good summary would be:
Gear matching FTW at low levels for twink guilds.
Gear matching FTL at higher lvls for the average dude trying to just get into a BG.
Keep arguing about where the cutoff should be *shrug* I dunno.
Klip May 30th 2007 4:45PM
Well how bout this? Loosen up the matching a bit to where you can get a match without waiting 2 hours or more. But have a leveling factor within the game itself, maybe some Buffs for the weaker team, some NPC players on the weaker side or a reduction in the timer or something. Even out the play in another way if matches are that hard to come by.
Coherent May 30th 2007 3:01PM
"Why run BG premades anymore? All you do is get matched up with other premades that are going to drag games out extremely long."
THIS MADE ME LOL
Anecdotally though, I've run a few Arathi Basin matches since 2.1 and they were pretty close! A close battle is WAY MORE FUN than an uneven battle. No one likes knowing that they're going to lose when the match is just getting started.
Freehugz May 30th 2007 3:36PM
@4 a prot warrior with full epic gear will probably still be rolling into bg in blues not his purples
syco May 30th 2007 4:32PM
The longer the match, the more fair the matchup is and the more fun you should be having. I hate it when people whine that WSG is taking a long time because we're actually giving the Horde a bit of resistance for once. It's like they don't want to win...
Nadiar May 30th 2007 6:02PM
The problem is, PvPing against an organized team and PvPing against an unorganized team is worth exactly the same number of honor points, since rank doesn't really exist anymore. Back when rank mattered, it was actually exciting to get an evenly matched team, because you'd get a lot more points than against a normal PUG (at least assuming it didn't start to stalemate). With the way the system works now, organizing a PvP team can easily earn you fewer points than just joining a random PUG. The ONLY reason to join a team now is for fun, since its essentially a waste of time.
This would be exactly the equivalent to Karazhan not having any loot, and just being a zone you raid 'for fun.' If you want honor rewards, you can 'solo' them easier than you can 'raid' for them.
Alch May 30th 2007 5:20PM
all I know is ever since the patch I have yet to play a BG with even teams. It always seems like Eye of the Storm is 14 vs 5 or something.
At Level 70 just throw me at anyone at anytime. I am a big boy now I can take it. Nothing makes me want to get better gear than facing a warrior 1 on 1 and losing. Plus what is the point of better gear at 70 if your playing vs people in matched gear? I would like to get to face some 70s in their basic gear after I earned my good gear. It is part of the game.
Am May 30th 2007 11:27PM
I don't think anyone has really considered this angle:
When I started doing BG's I didn't know anything about strategies or how to play my class. Only by getting destroyed by Horde pre-mades did I actually learn what works and what doesn't. So if new players now get isolated in a kiddie pool, I don't think they're going to learn as quickly.
Kalandrah May 31st 2007 4:10AM
I need to do me some battlegrounds on my druid then. The best gear for a Feral Druid is still 9/10th random (non-set) blue gear. I wonder how that's matched up. :)