Loot balance
Alright, this might just be me, but leveling my Rogue in Outland, I noticed one thing: there's a lot more Druid leather than there is Rogue leather, as far as quest rewards go. It seemed like for every Rogue piece, there were three Druid pieces, one for each talent tree. Never one to go with speculation where math would do the trick, I looked through 200 quests available to Alliance in any Outland zone to count the number of rewards for Rogues, Feral druids, Balance druids, and Resto druids. (I chose the first 200 quests in alphabetical order, which should be reasonably random.)If a reward seemed fairly viable for both, I counted it for both -- many pieces would work for Rogues and Feral druids, for instance. I'm only looking at leather armor here, not weapons, cloaks, or jewelry; arguably, this is a bit of a flaw, as weapons are a pretty big deal for Rogues (and a less big deal for Druids). But, well, let's see what the numbers say:
- Rogue: 11 pieces
- Druid: 21 pieces
- Feral: 11
- Balance: 10
- Resto: 1
Another area where I've percieved loot imbalance is in pre-raid healing gear -- Priest vs. Pally vs. Druid vs. Shaman. This time I did a slightly more comprehensive analysis: I looked at drops from all the level 70 instances and Heroics, including armor, weapons, and jewelry. If an item wasn't armor (and therefore not intrinsically suited for one particular class), I looked at its stats to decide which class it was meant for. Basically, if it had a lot of mana per 5, I tended to count it for Shaman and Pallies; a lot of Spirit meant Priest and Druid; otherwise, I counted it for all four classes.
The instances I used were Steamvaults, Shadow Labyrinth, Shattered Halls, Black Morass, Arcatraz, Botanica, and Mechanar, as well as every Heroic. I skipped any items with +damage/healing on them, focusing only on those with +healing, int, spirit, and/or mana per 5. My prediction was that Pally items would outnumber Priest items; I had no predictions regarding Shaman or Druids. What I found, in fact, was quite the opposite:
- Priest: 41
- Pally: 25
- Druid: 39
- Shaman: 28
On the other hand, there was also quite a bit of +spellpower cloth and leather that I ignored as well, and looking at the armory profiles of Paladin healers I know, they don't tend to have on much damage gear, relying more on +healing (as one might expect). I think it's more likely that it has something to do with Blizzard's view on the different classes' roles. If you look at the numbers, the four healing classes break into two groups: Priest and Druid on the one hand, and Paladin and Shaman on the other. The first group has about 50% more healing drops available than the second group. I would argue that this is because Blizzard views Priest and Druid as more "pure" healing classes than Pally and Shaman, the latter classes being meant as "true" hybrids. This shows up in the itemization with a lot more plate and mail that has spell or physical damage stats.
So I guess I have to conclude that the number of drops available for the healing classes is roughly as I would have designed it. It does raise a few questions, though. If Druids are a core healing class, why don't they have a regular rez? If Paladin's aren't a core healing class, why are they the most efficient healers in the game (raid-wise, at least)? And why am I not seeing any of these lovely Priest drops? (Just kidding on that last one; I've been getting some pretty sweet gear actually.) And what have you, gentle readers, observed, in terms of itemization balance for your class/spec? Overall, I have to maintain my initial impression that BC has done a great job in a lot of ways, but I do think in some ways the itemization is a bit off.
P.S.: For those that are interested, here's some example items, to give a picture of how I choose what to count for what class. (Obviously, many times, armor type decided for me. These are examples where it didn't.)
Bangle of Endless Blessings: Priest/Druid
Cloak of Whispering Shells: Paladin/Shaman
Scarab of the Infinite Cycle: All healing classes
And for Rogue vs. Druid gear:
Burning Blade Devotee's Cinch: Rogue/Feral
Circlet of the Starcaller: Balance
Cleansed Fel Pauldrons: Feral
Felboar Hide Shoes: Rogue
Filed under: Druid, Rogue, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Quests, Classes






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mike Hunt Jun 9th 2007 4:23PM
I have noticed, as a reader, that after attuneman (first kara boss)there are no leather moonkin drops save a few new ones added in Black Temple.
And this makes me cry a little on the inside...
Aziraphale Jun 9th 2007 4:28PM
oomkins deserve their fate
Matt Park Jun 9th 2007 4:29PM
The real fun comes when you're an enhancement shaman and you realize Blizzard considers enhancement mail and hunter mail to be the same thing.
The Destroyer Jun 9th 2007 4:43PM
@3
Seriously they think Shamans need agility for attack power or something. I have a friend who thinks it's a smart idea to stack as much agility as possible on his enhancement Shaman for Kara yet only has 800 attack power unbuffed. He's not too bright.
and
@1 Elemental Shaman face the exact same fate, it's the same for Ret Pallies, and DPS Warriors. Once you get out of Kara the gear options get better, not to mention your tier 4. SSC and above feature great gear for any hybrid spec, the only problem is getting there.
Mainstay Jun 9th 2007 4:56PM
Well, think about it on the flip side here. There's I think, 4 good Rogue weapons in Karazhan and only 1 DPS caster staff.
Amandil Jun 9th 2007 4:59PM
Interesting article, but your first complaint is a bit off in my eyes. When you compare the number of drops for druids and rogues you have to remember, that a druid needs a completely different gear for a different talent spezialisation. A rogue on the other hand can use about 90% of the rogue items for all thre talent trees. That means that for me, a pure Resto druid, almost no loot at all is awarded in the quests, only 1 in the 200 you analysed.
If you sum all the druid quest rewards up, you also have to multiply the number of rogue rewards by 3. ;)
When I started in BC I was quite annoyed by the fact that nearly no resto druid stuff at all was rewarded in the quests.
Amandil
PS:And don't forget, that most druids carry at least 2 complete gears.
ninjasoldat Jun 9th 2007 5:06PM
Feral Druids and Balance druids use completely different stats.
With that in mind the ratio is more like 1:1 since no balance druid would take feral or rogue rewards over balance rewards and vice versa.
Druid dude Jun 9th 2007 5:16PM
One thing to keep in mind is that people dont always have to use the highest armor type available to them, especially when leveling. Been a long time since I have seen a Fury Warrior in all plate, at least one that could do any dps.
So, the +spell damage leather might be worn also by clever dps shammies, same goes for the (somewhat rare) healing leather. By the same token though, many a Boomkin is wearing a good amount of cloth. This does leave rogues in kind of a screwy spot though, since there is no cloth gear that would work them lol!
While getting to 70 on my feral druid, and shortly after, I was wearing a lot of rogue loot because there wasn't much decent leather with strength on it.
Patrick Schriner Jun 9th 2007 5:17PM
The reason for these quest rewards is quite simple: there was plenty of resto-druid equip pre-BC, allmost none for feral or oomkin. Moreover for All hybrid classes Blizzard anticipated that they would not level using a healing spec (well, silly them???)
When you start looking at Level 70 rewards and dungeon drops, I'd guess it's turning around. I don't even have to mention the allmost complete non-set of healing items droping for healing-paladins in Karazhan, whereas you find close to none for oomkin or retribution-paladins.
I think the distribution of quest rewards is very fair - in the end, if a quest rewards you no useful item, then it rewards you with more money, which you can turn in any way you like (faster rep.grind e.g.)
Incendo Jun 9th 2007 5:22PM
Well it's the same way across the board really as Blizzard was trying to make up for classes that traditionally were rather neglected for loot. It's even more apparent in the first four or five zones of Outland. Go ask any hunter about how every quest reward is shammy gear.
Sylvina Jun 9th 2007 5:26PM
It breaks down into classes who have trouble getting items in instances get their loot from quests. That is why you see so much Druid & Pally gear from quest rewards. Retribution Paladins have difficulty getting into 5-mans, let alone Heroics, so they try to off-set it with good quest reward gear for them.
Thumpah Jun 9th 2007 5:39PM
The situation is about the same for mail... Lots of Shammy mail compared to the few hunter pieces.
cetha Jun 9th 2007 5:43PM
after having leveled through 60-70 on two different characters (a lock and a shammy) i'm really starting to think that the big winners of TBC were the druids, and this article only adds to my speculation on that. It seems like quest rewards and rep rewards were much more for druids than any other classes (+healing leather everywhere) and even just green drops...i've gotten so many staffs with + this that or the other thing in cat, bear, etc form. This isn't really a complaint though, as pre-TBC it really seemed like druids were the real underdogs of WoW and now from talent trees, new spells, flight form, and items druids are getting their day in the sun...good for them...shammys next please :)~
Gurei Jun 9th 2007 5:46PM
the reason is simple,and as you see
itemization in wow has no logic at all behind it,or has to many logics behind it waht leads it just to be unlogical.
Feral gear is all over the place 60 to 69 but at 70 is something you really have to look for as thers no upgrade,due to how great older gear is or how mediocre later gear is.
Healers have more gear to get than othr classes yes and not the right gear is made for the right classes,never.
It simply makes no sense,its not made correctly.
On a note,the gear for the 3 druid specs is so diferent that they really need to have that much gear,if rogues got 10 druids need 30,10 for each spec cuz using gear made for another spec is like being naked,a feral with resot gear is like a rogue using it,gets no benefit from it at all
Dean Jun 9th 2007 6:55PM
Well when it comes to levelling, rogue and feral druid gear is pretty much identical (at least if we ignore druid tanking gear for the moment). Although druids benefit a little more from Str, and rogues from Agi, they mostly crossover. So if you're going to reduce the amount of feral gear available, you'd end up reducing the amount of rogue gear too.
Meanwhile this feral/rogue gear is of close to zero use to a moonkin specced druid, so you have to provide a simmilar amount of spell damage leather too to make it fair. I imagine Resto gear is better catered for in instances, where those levelling as Resto will likely be spending most of thier time.
Also look at it from a positive perspective: everytime you did a quest where there was no rogue loot, you got to pick the most expensive reward and vendor or DE it. Druids meanwhile are building at least two sets (feral/healing or moonkin/healing), in many cases three (tank/feral/healing) and some even go for all four. So you get three or four times as much gold!
Dave Jun 9th 2007 7:50PM
The argument could be made that classes that require very distinct gear for different builds (druids) should have a greater raw number of rewards than classes where pretty much every member of the class can make do with the same armor (rogues). Say there are the same number of rogue rewards and druid rewards in a zone, maybe 8 of each. If a rogue and a druid both do the entire zone, the rogue will have received eight rewards he can use. The druid will have received only as many of the druid rewards as fit his spec. In addition, most rogues don't carry around multiple sets of gear; a rogue really only needs a DPS set, and probably doesn't need to change out very many pieces when they go into an instance. Druids on the other hand, are most likely wearing either healing gear or tanking gear when they're in an instance, and there's probably not a lot of overlap between that and the stuff they solo/quest/grind in.
A last consideration is that there's only so many ways you can vary a piece of rogue armor, since rogues only care about maybe five stats. Increasing the number of rogue quest rewards would tend to create redundant ones.
robodex Jun 9th 2007 7:52PM
I didn't notice it with my rogue as much as I did with my hunter. Apparently Blizzard thinks hunters live in a magical world where we love wearing leather, because I honestly cannot count the times I've gotten to the end of a long quest chain and exclaimed "GOD DAMMIT, SHAMMY MAIL!"
Sterling Jun 9th 2007 8:19PM
I'll proudly admit to being an AH hound with the 60 to 70 quest rewards. My main is an extremely slow leveling 68 warrior. (Hooray for real life.) I am pretty sure about 60% or more of the "casual" quest rewards that do have plate are geared towards paladins.
@8 I never even considered using leather or mail armor. Mostly because I truly hate carrying around multiple armor items. I'll consider it though. And, there have been multiple times where I get asked to tank last minute (on the rare occasion I can play) where I just need to change my cloak and a trinket. Believe it or not, I hold just as much aggro fury spec as prot spec.
Venkman90 Jun 9th 2007 8:30PM
"5. Well, think about it on the flip side here. There's I think, 4 good Rogue weapons in Karazhan and only 1 DPS caster staff."
More than 4 tbh, off the top of my head:
Emerald Ripper
Blade of the Unrequited
Big Bad Wolf Paw
Spiteblade
Fools Bane
Malchazen
Xavian Stilleto (thrown)
Gyr Jun 10th 2007 3:11AM
Hmmm. I'd gotten the sense while leveling 58-70 in Outland that there *did* seem to be a sudden abundance of druid leather available as quest rewards, and this confirms that feeling. However, I think the sense that perhaps rogue leather availability suffered as a result would be somewhat misplaced, if only because I think Blizzard designed it this way so as to avoid what would effectively have been a punishment of hybrid classes trying to gear for multiple roles.
The main reason that I don't believe rogue leather (or hunter mail, etc.) really suffered is that I'm still at 70 encountering quest rewards that are in many ways a side-grade to rewards available on previous quests; it's almost like Blizz said, "Well, OK, you may not have gotten the +str +sta gloves from that other quest because you got a balance helm that was a serious upgrade, so here's another piece that's slightly different but still usable." Frankly I think Dave at #16 hit the nail on the head; increasing the amount of "rogue leather" or "hunter mail" quest rewards would lead to more of this endless redundancy, which would have been maddening as a pure DPS class. To a hybrid it's a godsend. It means you don't have to spend half of your WoW life miserably scrounging for gear, and it also means you're not being punished by having to forgo an upgrade for your current spec in favor of a reward you'll need to fill out, say, the heal set. If I had leveled 58-70 constantly having to choose between quest rewards for my actual spec (then balance) and what I did at least 50% of the time in dungeons (healing), I think I would have quit the game. Seeing yourself fall further and further behind a pure DPS class in overall damage just because you're trying to do the responsible thing and fill out a heal/tank set is very depressing.
And yeah, I can only confirm earlier comments re: the difference in gear for a hybrid spec. I decided around my mid-60's to respec from balance to feral because the tank shortage on my realm is pretty bad, and was very, very glad to have had the opportunity to collect bear tanking gear along the way (most of it was quest reward pieces, but others were drops I'd gotten while healing my way through dungeons and that nobody else had wanted; even a rogue is not going to bother overmuch with a high armor +def +str leather piece). There is a 4K health and 3K armor difference between my feral and balance gear sets, and that's only in *caster.* Lifebloom ticks for 120/s in full heal gear, and only 39/s in feral gear. If I buff four people in balance gear, I'm down mebbe 10% of my mana pool; in feral gear I'm down 80% of it. And having just hit 70 while still in Terokkar, my gear is by no means jaw-dropping, but the differences are just going to get bigger and bigger as the sets improve.
So the bottom line is that I think Blizz recognized that one of the only ways to help ameliorate the perpetual tank/healer shortage would be to make it easier for hybrid classes to respec and gear for those roles. And I have to say after leveling as a balance druid that I was the happiest cow on the planet to discover that leather spell damage gear existed as (comparatively routine) quest rewards. Gearing up a moonkin pre-BC was a hideous joke. Those 11 set pieces you cited earlier were everything in the world to me.