Officers' Quarters: When guilds fracture
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
For some people, it is the fundamental question of Warcraft: friends -- or progression? Some people are lucky enough to be able to play the game with their friends and meet their in-game goals at the same time. This week's question is from an officer who has been able to live that dream but now has to choose between them after his guild splits apart.
Hey Scott,
My guild just recently went through a bit of a break up, and as one of the founding members/officers of the guild, I'm a bit uncertain of how to help handle things. Apparently this split had been near inevitable with a leadership (though not filled with ill will) clash between the shared guild leaders. Our guild had integrated a larger guild into our fold, and the split has largely fallen back on those old lines. The problem is, the original guild was started with my real life friends, so obviously there's an amount of loyalty there. Then again, I've made a few good friends from the incoming (and now outgoing) guild as well. I see my real life friends often enough, and I know the smaller guild would have both its upsides (namely better organization, a guild leadership I prefer, and a tighter knit group of people) and downsides(such as a lack of instance progression because of the lack of players). I play WoW for both the gameplay and friends, so I feel like I'd be sacrificing one for the other, at least for a while. Is it possible to interact with both, and do so diplomatically? I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it too, but this dissolving of the guild came rather suddenly and I'm at a loss. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever been (or will be) in this sort of situation before!
My thanks and regards,
Brandon
Let me just say first of all, Brandon (not his real name), that I don't believe guild splits are necessarily a bad thing.
As a case in point, my own guild underwent a small split at one time. It was a matter of certain players in the guild who just never got along with a few of my officers. A couple of my officers are no-nonsense types. They don't coddle people, and they don't deal with emo very well. The players who had a tendency toward emo were sort of a subculture within my guild. They were all very close, and whenever one of them felt they were being treated unfairly, they all got involved. So any small bit of drama quickly became a Big Deal. We had acquired most of these players through guild mergers (something I'll never do again), so we had no idea about the problems they were going to bring us. They had a lot of enthusiasm for the game and many of them were very nice people, but most of them weren't particularly effective players. So when they came to raids there were sometimes clashes between them and some of my officers, who expected a better performance.
The bitterness between the two sides grew, and it seemed like no amount of diplomacy on my part could bridge the gap. Finally, one of them decided she had had enough and quit the guild. Later that day, she asked me to let her back in, but I had had enough too. So she decided to start her own guild and took with her just about all the people who had been causing trouble. My guild has been virtually drama-free since, so the split wound up being a very good thing for us in this case.
Admittedly, sometimes these splits can get ugly. Unfortunate words are exchanged. Items are stolen. And basically the whole thing crumbles apart and the officers are left to fight each other for the scraps of what remains like the squabbling heirs of a deceased emperor.
But it sounds like Brandon's split was more on the amicable side, so count your blessings! If there is fundamental disagreement among the leadership, and you have tried and failed to reconcile your philosophical differences, going your separate ways can be the only real solution. Most people are going to fall into one camp or the other, but Brandon is one of the unlucky few stuck in the middle.
But because he is close to both guilds, and has had some authority as an officer, he is in a unique position to be an effective liaison. Even largely self-sufficient guilds still face times when they need just one more person to fill in for a raid, or have someone who can do one rare high-level enchant but not another. The person who can reach out to find one more DPS class or broker trading a Mongoose enchant for a Soulfrost can be quite valuable.
But he still has to make a choice. It seems to me that in this case, the decision Brandon makes is almost irrelevant, provided the guild you don't choose to join can forgive you for it. If you stay in your friends' guild, the other guild may still ask you to help them out in raids. If you join the raiding guild, your friends will still be there for you when you want to party up and goof around with them. So "having your cake and eating it too" is largely a matter of how reasonable everyone else is willing to be.
If you have alts, you can make a compromise. One way to handle this could be to have your main raiding character in one guild, and all your other characters in your friends' guild. If you go this route, never ever switch your main raiding character -- your friends aren't there solely to help you gear up your alts so you can then move those characters over to the raiding guild too. That's a surefire way to make them resent you. Also, I don't recommend being an officer in either guild if you have characters in both. Your divided loyalty will make you suspect when it comes time to make difficult decisions.
Of course, you could always try sticking it out with your friends, recruiting a few more like-minded people, and giving some "casual raiding" a go with them. Since 2.1, Karazhan has gotten a lot easier. Ten players with endgame 5-man rares and a voice chat server can do virtually any fight in that instance, and it keeps getting easier as you gear up in purples.
In the end, if you have no other choice but to decide once and for all between the guilds, I always recommend standing by your friends. After all, WoW won't last forever, but friends are for life!
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Elaus Jun 13th 2007 3:12PM
lol @ picture.
Isn't that bone supposed to be the strongest bone in the body?
solidsnake13 Jun 11th 2007 12:04PM
Great response, I agree wholeheartedly.
I think if your friends from real life and your friends from the second guild get along, you should try and create a guild with all of them.
Cailleach Jun 11th 2007 12:11PM
Think 'guild alliance'! We have an alliance of several smaller guilds, all maintaining their independance, who ally for the sake of friendship and eliminating the dreaded 'pug'. It's easy to make an alliance chat channel that all (both?) guild members can access, and then you really can eat your cake and stay slim and trim, too. In that case, Brandon can be a member of whatever guild he wants, and members of BOTH guilds can still be friends, or not, as each member chooses. No-one makes you /join the alliance channel or do cross-guild runs, after all.
Myid Jun 11th 2007 12:10PM
I have to say I play WoW with 9 real life friends, who play from hardcore to very casual. What we ended up doing was make a core guild for all our bank alts and such and opened a special chat channel that we could all talk in no matter what guild we were in.
We are a pretty laid back bunch and encourage the hardcore friends to get geared up in raiding guilds. Really it comes down to this. Friends want you to succeed and enjoy the game. More times than not we are all doing our own thing, but enjoy the dialogue when a raid or PUG causes frustration.
Plus there is nothing better than having a friend in epics helping you run through a 5-man dungeon in 20 minutes, or visa versa.
Sylythn Jun 11th 2007 1:13PM
I'll second Cailleach's statement. Alliances were made for guilds that can help each other, but would not be compatible in a merger. There's nothing in an alliance that says all members of one guild have to get along with all members of the other. And your management differences won't come into play at all.
Hank Jun 11th 2007 1:39PM
If not for wanting to get in to do Kara, I would be happy not being in a guild, considering my last guild leader turned out to be a jhole and my current guild is, well, tiny.
Coherent Jun 11th 2007 2:33PM
What it comes down to is: You either sit on the fence and try to remain friends with everybody, or you make a decision and definitely remain friends with half of them.
Trying to remain friends with everybody could backfire because it's a pretty transparent ploy and you come off as a fair-weather friend at best. Choosing a side could burn you because you either sacrifice progression potential or sacrifice real life friends.
So what matters to you most? Progression potential? or Friends?
But be aware of the difference between "raid buddies" and ACTUAL friends. Guys you can happily tolerate while raiding are not on the same level as someone you've known for years.
Ironically, this is why you're not supposed to get into business with friends. Sooner or later you're going to have to make a decision that either imperils the friendship or the business.
So maybe the only true solution is preventative: Don't raid with friends.
TyphoidTimmy Jun 11th 2007 4:03PM
I have been down the road a couple of times and experienced the amicable and the meltdown. Both, I believe, were totally warranted. Whatever the case, its a natural part of life and your belief should be who do you side with. Make the decision and stay with it.
In retrospect, the meltdown was actually easier considering. The guild leader and his officers were very much into cronyism and we subtlety bleeding dkp off other people while feigning ignorance as to why we were on farm status for things like MC and both the leader and his hunter officer had full BS while most other hunters had 1.
Someone clued us in and said to watch the numbers on the next dkp spread and take SS before. Showed they were nearly doubling DKP for officers while giving the regular attendees a tenth of it. The big factor was a druid piece dropped and they showed the DKP leader (non officer) actually getting his DKP reduced by 10 to be outbid by the officer, then the 10 going back up.
Needless to say, we all posted in a mass quit on the boards (which got deleted) but we hosted ss over on the realm boards and effectively obliterated the guild (and blackballed the leader and 3 of the most apparent cronies). Drama aside, we formed a new guild, took the old DKP to the new and actually came out better.
Amicable on the other hand was harder since a lot of us liked each other but officer drama caused a rift to form that never fully healed. While we got offers to come across to the new guild, I and a friend of mine decided to stay and have not regretted it since....not only have we become mainstays in a lot of the raids, we have become better suited to perform the duties we need in the raids by actually participating more. Add to this that the casual nature of our guild has remained as such and it goes without saying we like where we are.
klash Jun 12th 2007 1:10AM
I think it all depends on what kind of player you are, if you take more enjoyment from mucking around with mates... base your decision on that.
If you really want the loot and end game progression join a guild that will provide that.
It doesn't mean you have to give up either, thats what a friends list and alliance chat channels are for, like others mentioned... but it does determine what you give more influence to.
Whichever you choose, you gotta be true to yourself, or you wont be happy.
Ive been in a few guild merges, its not pretty and takes a lot to make work.
If your an active officer trying to smooth over a merge... its a real eye-opener to exactly how diverse the players are in wow... age, timezones, language, culture, intelligence, values, sex, priorities.
To me this is the part of WoW ive learnt the most from, its like real world management of a lot of different people, wrapped in cotton wool.