Build Shop: Hunter 5/13/43
Welcome back to Build Shop! A short break was taken due to some technical difficulties, but here I am once again. And although I had previously claimed to have covered every class, it appears that I was mistaken: I missed Hunter! Therefore, as a thank you to the person who brought this to my attention (let's call him Mr. X), I will be reviewing his Hunter build. (To Mr. X: you didn't give me a screen name or anything, and I'm not sure if you want your real name attached to this. Drop me an email if you want me to credit the build to you.)
This build definitely falls into the "strange" category. You've all seen enough raid builds and leveling builds, time for something a bit different. Here's how Mr. X describes the build:
This Hunter idea just caught my attention, the ability to control 5 mobs, freeze trap, wait for cool down (24 seconds), wyvern sting pull, concussive shot another, one gets trapped, drop a trap for another, you pet tanks the last, 1 sleeping, 2 trapped, pop readiness, drop trap for the last, call pet back, wyvern sting the one it was fighting, relax a moment or two, back up, send pet in at first wyvern sting, let loose, then back to the second wyvern sting, trap cooldown should be up, retrap first ice block, fight the second ice block, have pet grab third ice block, mend pet, take out, and retrap the last ice block, step back, send in pet, let loose again. 5 mobs down, 1-2 minutes.
-in a goup this hunter could have some fun too. the ability to free 3 targets, for 26 seconds each, pull a group of 6 in end game instances, rogue and mage in group, 1 sap, one sheep, and 3 ice blocks, then a wyvern sting mid combat should it be needed, and chain trapping one of the 3, the group can take out 1 enemy at a time, even in a group of 6, or without mage and rogue, still stop 5 for a period, life becomes really easy at this point. plus expose weakness on the 1 target everyone is fighting. this could be especially helpful with boss adds, since freezing traps arent specific to a specific target type (i.e. humanoids, beast, undead, etc)
In other words, it's a CC-focused hunter. Bearing that in mind, it's no surprise that the majority of the build's points (43) go into Survival. Fortunately, that tree got heavily buffed recently (in 2.1, I believe), so that doesn't gimp your damage as much as it used to. But let's look at the choices outside Surv first. There's not much to look at: 5/5 Imp. Aspect of the Hawk (IAotH) in Beast Mastery, and then in Marksmanship, Imp. Concussive Shot, Lethal Shots, Go for the Throat (GftT), and Aimed Shot.
Just looking at the layout of the points in those two trees, one thing instantly occurs to me: can we spend those points in IAotH better? It's a strong talent, but it has its downsides. I've heard Aspect of the Viper is more commonly used in instances and grinding, simply to keep from running out of mana. How much does IAotH add to your damage? Well, that depends on the speed of your weapon.
The average speed of a level 70 ranged weapon is 2.72. According to my calculations, that means that for the average hunter, IAotH should be up about 55% of the time (ignoring the fact that when it procs, it becomes somewhat more likely to proc again). When it procs, it increases ranged attack speed by 15%. So in the long run, having the talent increases your ranged attack speed on average 15% * 55% = 8.25%, or somewhat under 2% per point. And this is where my knowledge runs out -- I don't know how much of a hunter's damage comes from Autoshot, so I can't tell what effect this would have on overall DPS. If about half a hunter's damage is Autoshot damage, IAotH adds around 0.83% DPS per talent point.
Of course, even if it turns out that the talent isn't quite a powerhouse, there's no great place to put points taken out of it. I had initially looked towards Mortal Shots, since we already have a few talents that increase crit chance or proc off crits, but we would first need to spend two more points in Marksmanship. I don't see any very attractive places to spend those two points. So I think we'd better keep IaoTH after all. (That was a lot of math for nothing...but it was fun.)
As far as the talents we do have in MM go, it's pretty straightforward. I would usually shy away from Imp. CS (at least for a PvE build), but that one in five chance to stun would really help out with the 5-pulls this build aspires to. So...on to Survival, the swiss army knife of Hunter trees (yes, it's a knife and a tree) and the bulk of this build.
There are several talents in Surv that help directly with this build's focus: Entrapment, Clever Traps, Trap Mastery, Resourcefulness, Wyvern Sting, and Readiness. Let's take these as given. What else is up for debate? I would seriously consider dropping Humanoid Slaying and taking Hawk Eye instead. Range talents are consistently underrated, and the majority of mobs are not humanoids. The extra six yards on the initial pull will probably buy you more time than 3% more damage and 3% more crit on some mobs.
On the other hand, if you look down to the second tier, you see Imp. Wing Clip, which makes me think that this build, sensibly enough, has PvP as a side focus. If you're going to specialize in Survival, it'd be kind of a waste not to put a little energy towards PvP. But back on the first hand again, Imp. WC would also be useful for the CC game, in case a mob gets loose a little early or something, so who knows. It's almost certainly more useful than Deflection at any rate.
Moving to the next tier, you can't really argue with more health, although I also can't help but wonder if a couple points from Survivalist might not be well spent in Deterrence and Counterattack. I've never played a Surv hunter, so I don't know first-hand, but I hear Counterattack is a very popular skill.
Survival Instinct and Killer Instinct are both clearly valuable (not to mention KI is required for Wyvern Sting). Lightning Reflexes is a bit iffy on its own, but Expose Weakness, on top of our high crit chance, makes it almost certainly worthwhile. And there aren't any choices left after that; Master Tactician is required for Readiness, which we need.
Overall, I'd have to say for its stated purpose, this build is about as good as it could be. I would switch out Humanoid Slaying and possibly drop a few points from Survivalist, but aside from that, good job, Mr. X. Of course, there's the whole question of whether you approve of X's goal with this build in the first place, but there's not much factual to say about that. I'll just quote one of my all-time favorite WoW Insider comments, from quite a while ago:
37. I'm a trap-laying hunter. I will never have the "best" gear or do "World first"-kills, so i prefer to be good at something else. I walk a road less traveled. Trap-hunter.
The three trap-talents are a must for me - Clever traps (+30 longer duration), Trap Mastery (10% less resists) and Improved Feign Death (4% less resists), only 6 points in total, that helps immensely when perma-freezing a mob.
Thats what i do. :)
Posted at 6:40PM on Nov 13th 2006 by Markus "LAKE" Berglund
Filed under: Hunter, Features, Talents, Build Shop







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Scadam Jun 12th 2007 8:10PM
This hunter is a bit over-optimistic. It's possible to ice 3 mobs but it's more of a show-off move than an effective one.
You need a trap pre-laid, wait and time it right, and then blow readiness for a third trap. But that assumes you have the luxury of timing the fight to your exact preference, and that none of the traps break prematurely. The '3 ice blocks' will become a single one in less than 20 seconds (if your trap cooldown is up to ice the 1).
Not sure how effective wyvern sting is since it is a one-time only cc on a longer cooldown that leaves a dot when it's finished, blocking any subsequent cc.
Eliah Hecht Jun 12th 2007 8:12PM
Ah! I meant to address that. Yeah, it's definitely a good point that traps will break before their full time, at least if they're anything like other CC.
Hybrys Jun 12th 2007 8:16PM
Rofl. Survival rocks, but not for this reason.
Hawk Eye is a soloing or PvP talent ALONE. It should NEVER be in a Raiding or PvE build, since the two Killing talents are much stronger, and the points could go elsewhere. Not many Humanoids? All of Hellfire Pen., All of Tempest Keep, Shadow Labs... Get where I'm going now? It's more sustainable to take the Humanoid Killing, since, sure, you can get a LITTLE bit of extra DPS the start of the fight, but it's useless against bosses, and useless after the pull. ^^
carnot Jun 12th 2007 8:21PM
sorry, that imp CS is purely a pvp talent. the 5 pts would be better spent in efficiency to make sure you have the mana for 5 mobs, or imp mark, since that melee buffs applies to your pet if nothing else, making it dish out more dmg/tank better.
ajpally Jun 12th 2007 8:51PM
or you could just delete your hunter all together...
fever Jun 12th 2007 10:20PM
I didn't even finish this article. Whoever made this build must be out of their gourd. Do they realize a DOT will break the "ice block"? And Eliah, if you've never played a hunter, I can see you not understanding Auto-Shot, but suggesting the build keep IAotH is ludicrous. What's even stranger is that "Mr. X" took it. Apparently, they didn't understand that it applied to Auto-shot, which doesn't fire if you're moving. To a non-hunter, the fact that we can fire while moving (and jumping!) must seem like we're using Auto-shot, but we're not. Everything you see while we're skittering about is costing mana, and wouldn't benefit from IAotH. Now, Improved Hunter's Mark, which benefits everything attacking that mob (even non-faction players and guards?) would certainly take a mob down quicker than the chance of IAotH popping up, especially because you have to stand still, which means you're not "ice blocking" even one thing at a time. Considering how flawed this build looks, I'm tossing out the possibility you just got trolled.
jetsfan80 Jun 12th 2007 10:27PM
ive been experimenting with the survival tree, and this is my current build, its not bad but i still miss my beast spec oh and dont worry about that 1 point in beast slaying, its just that i couldnt think of anything to do with that last point
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0000000000000000000000550001000000000000013303032502322300531351
Eliah Hecht Jun 12th 2007 10:43PM
fever: I have played a hunter, to 50something. I know how Auto-shot works. Imp Hunter's Mark used to be ludicrous; it's quite possible that it's better now in 2.1, which I hadn't taken into account.
fever Jun 12th 2007 10:59PM
Even if it sucked before, it's still pointless to take IAotH when you're bouncing around all over the place, which is what you do when you're a Survival hunter. While it's possible that this is a really old build, I doubt that.
klash Jun 13th 2007 12:13AM
yeah sorry i am all for playing however the hell you want, but I believe this build stretches you too thin.
as someone else said imp CS has very limited uses in pve.
youve taken aimed shot and IAOTH, what shot rotation / speed weapon are you really planning with that. one or the other dude... and if your taking IAOTH id be backing it up with improved arcane and mana efficiency.
take this build if you want.. just remember doing the whole mass CC (which this build has been specced to do, although non-cc points have been spent questionably) thing takes a very skilled hunter and there is very rare opportunities where this is actually beneficial/necessary.
Unfortunately most hunters fall in the barely adequate basket. This spec would lower their DPS and cause them to try to mass cc things which would be a major hindrance to most groups. (it would royally annoy tanks and healers).
captinplanet Jun 13th 2007 9:12PM
umm no this doesnt work in end game, for one a hunter's job in any fashion is dps, u r there to make things die faster, this build doesnt support this, when i run kara i might have to frezee trap one mob but he is usually the 2nd or 3rd to be dropped, secondly y would u give up silenceing shot great ability
Tomas Petras Rupsys Jun 13th 2007 4:54AM
Yes, this would work out for PvE, but not for pvp.
I prefer 0/43/18 and i have no problem in both pvp and pve.
By the way, if you want to grind agroind 3-5mobs at once, it's better to stay with beastmastery.
Also, my suggestion to mmship huntards "how to pull 5 mobs"
Multishot, then send pet and feign death, stand up attack same target as pet do, use mend pet when pet will have
Dustybrown Jun 13th 2007 5:01AM
as a 70 hunter i must say this is a pretty bad build. i quit reading it after the first couple paragraphs. whoever made this obviously isn't that familiar with the class. i can't believe mr x or whoever went with it. i definitely do not recommend this build.
p3ngu11 Jun 13th 2007 7:43AM
yeah, this build fails
1/2 the point of a SV build is to get surefooted
and he wastes 8 points in the BM and MM trees if all he's going for is CC abilities...
drew Jun 13th 2007 8:22AM
you need mortal shots as a huntard plain and simple and the 41 point tallent in surv is a waist
Jason Jun 13th 2007 9:37AM
IV been a hunter ever sense I played the game, and to tell u the truth... this build is crap.. it looks more like random talents put anywhere that sounds good, none the less no range power at all. How in the hell is IAotH CC.. I dont see it, and readiness is not even worth going down that tree so far.. Im a pvp hunter 0/30/31 and i can cc just as much and more than this build, yet alone i dont have to run around a freeze every thing ether
If i have a six mob pull I wont be the only one cc. Ill have mage sheep one, or rogue sap/ concussive shot one for the pull, send pet after concussive mob with mendpet buff on him, let the other 4 run to the freeze trap, caught one *now three left to take down*, FD so that they all run to the tank, back up to the freeze trap mob and keep chain traping him and mend pet two keep the two mods at hand, wile all this is going on, Im DPS the hell out of the other three that is on the tank. with my crit rating at 24% im takeing some big chucks out, and i have no need to run all over the place to try to control or freeze trap three at a time.. It just makes every one confused and dizzy..
if u want a good build for raiding or pvp try mine out for size. It gets u all the agi talents plus make your crit hella high, along side give u that extra range weapon dmg u need with some CC involved.
I dont have the best gear in the world but it works for me =) SAVVY
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Terenas&n=Drangao
Arya Jun 13th 2007 10:53AM
"If you want a good build for raiding or PvP"...
Yeah, totally missing the point.
If you want a raid or PvP spec, don't try this one. Obviously. And stated in the article. Several times.
A CC build isn't for everybody, and the 41-point survival talent isn't a belt. (Duh?)
There's plenty of cookie-cutter builds for hunters on the forums, if raiding or PvP is your thing, go check them out.
For what this article was meant for, highlighting an alternate build, it did fine.
I couldn't play it, but I won't spec survival without the deflection and counterattack... that's the main attraction, I don't focus on my traps. I focus more on (as posted above) bouncing in and out of melee, using those immobilizing effects as I can. Traps are part of that, but ImpWC and Counterattack are a bit more useful, imo.
But again, that's personal playstyle, and I'm impressed that someone built the trap-spec listed, and apparently has fun doing it. Would love to see that in action.
Great article, and keep 'em coming!
Pingmeister Jun 13th 2007 11:03AM
I think that the more "OMG THIS BILD IS DUM" posts an article like this gets the better build it is.
These are alternate builds. They are for those folks who actually might like to play a way other than the way "cookie-cutter" raid junkies are forced to play.
I could never play the way this build is designed for so it's not for me, but I can see in my head what this guy is doing and support his efforts to change things around a little bit.
ben1778 Jun 13th 2007 11:40AM
the 41-point talent is a Waist? LOL
L2Homophone.
That's like saying, with the arrival of his new son, the King now has an AIR to the throne.
Rakan Jun 13th 2007 12:25PM
Wow...all i have to say is wow.
1. Hawk Eye is extremly useful in staying out of many many bosses AOE in 5 mans, which is where this hunter normally lives.
2. we have a case of overkill here with the trapping, in other words, the person thinking thier traps are more important than they are. You dont need all this extra jazz to trap well, you just need a brain. If you ever actaully have to CC that many mobs, you're screwed anyways because of random breaks THAT YOU CANT RETRAP because of cooldowns and dots. so thats the dumbest idea ever.
3. This hunter should never raid. Ever.
4. missing out on mortal shots is a mistake simply because why take the higher crit build if you cant take advantage of the crits and add 30% more to them?
5. imp hunters mark over effeincey (sp) just means he made an already small mana pool even smaller, so thats not good.
6. Imp conc shot? if he wants to pvp he should pvp, not this half assed i wanna trap in 5 mans and pvp! cause traps are soon to me meaningless in pvp. Other than that it does not help him much at all.
7. if this hunter has imp aspect of hawk, then he has no real shot rotation and is pretty much a clicker (not a bad thing the clicking), which means his dps sucks so bad in 5 mans i wouldnt bring him anyways.
8. someone find a real hunters build to look over, because this on is an insult to SV hunters.
Rakan
70 SV hunter