Raiding gear vs. Arena gear
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Jun 14th 2007 at 11:26AM
With the advent of Arena season 2, a lot of people are looking forward to the new arena sets. But others are wondering if gear gained from the arenas should be better, worse, or equal to gear from raiding. Two forum topics -- "ARENA GEAR should NOT = RAIDING GEAR" and "Raiding gear should NOT = Arena gear" purport to pit PVEers against PVPers, even though most people seem to do a mix of both.
Basically, the argument goes like this:
- Raider: Anyone can get arena epics fairly easily just by PVPing a few matches a week, so why should they be as good as the drops I spent hours raiding for?
- Arena player: Any brainless monkey can mash a keyboard against programmed opponents. Facing other people is the real test of skill in WoW, so we should get the best gear.
- Everyone else: Hey, aren't the PVP sets better for PVP and the PVE sets better for PVE? What's wrong with that? It's not like that stamina and resilience are gonna do most people tons of good against Kael'thas.
Personally, as one of those elusive casual raiders, I like having the arena sets equal to raiding sets. It gets all the people who just want to gear up through raiding, then /gquit and PVP all the time out of raiding guilds. PVP gear should be best at killing other players, and PVE gear should be best at killing bosses. And when did doing Arena for a month to get ONE epic item become "easy epics"? It's only easy if you compare it to the old PVP honor system, which was life-destroying.
Drysc puts it pretty well in one of the threads: "You're not actually concerned that someone else is getting something easier than you, because you would go do it and wouldn't look back. You're either unable or unwilling to switch to what you perceive is the easier route, and want what you're invested in or willing to do made easier based on what you perceive matches the effort invested in the other." Basically, if you're raiding for gear and complain that Arena is easier, go do Arena, and vice versa.
Are you okay with the gear from raiding and from Arenas, or would you like to see one part of the game buffed? Is "PVEing to PVP" still a viable way of winning in PVP?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Quoi Jun 14th 2007 11:38AM
At least from a mage standpoint, the PvE gear will get you killed insanely fast in PvP. Most raiding mages in their basic gear have about 6-7k hp. You need about 8-9k to be really useful in arenas. Likewise, the +damage on the PvP set is noticeably weaker than on the raid gear.
Seper Jun 14th 2007 11:38AM
Most of the arena gear is crap compared to the epics i get from raiding. Mabye for other classes its good.. but druids in particiular.. not worth the time. Only reason I do arena is to get that small boost from a blue to an epic.
Arena is a waste of time for my class though.
(i'm also specced resto which could be another reason i frown upon arena gear)
Cosmina Jun 14th 2007 11:41AM
I don't think it's a big deal at all.
Arena gear is stacked with Stam and Resilience, two stats which are close to useless in PvE. Likewise PvE gear is stacked with MP5 and +hit and +int, stats which really don't fly in PvP.
The PvP gear is great, no doubt, but a not so insignificant portion of its item budget is spent on stats useful only in the very place you got the gear from.
PvP gear optimal for PvP
PvE gear optimal for PvE
OMFG NOT FAIR DURR DURR
Rich Jun 14th 2007 11:41AM
There is one reason and one reason why Arena Gear needs to be on par with raiding gear...
To stop the raiders from coming in and destroying the Arena with their phat lootz.
We saw it happen in the BG's before the expansion. They came in with their Tier armor and slaughtered everyone.
PvP and Raiding are 2 paths people can take in the endgame. MOST of the time, they are either/or path.
Arena gear should be a little harder to get. Raiders make the chose to raid and with it comes with the time sink.
Zebedeo Jun 14th 2007 11:46AM
Considering the many many months it takes to get the best tier 5 and 6 stuff available from raiding I would say 1 epic a month from doing arena is pretty easy. People are already running around with complete sets. I do not see to many people running around with teir 5 and 6 sets from raiding though.
Based on this I would say it is a lot easier to get gear from arena, which is why I am sure it is so popular. Yes I know people will respond that “no I do arena because it is fun”; but I bet if the arena gave you the same crappy gear as the battlegrounds not nearly as many people would be doing it. I would like to know why the battlegrounds can not have some better gear. I prefer that type of pvp to the set team system found in the arena.
ben1778 Jun 14th 2007 11:47AM
I don't understand why you can't do both. I don't care much for raiding, but I have a LOT of friends that do. I do arenas with them on their non-raid days. I don't know anyone personally that raids every single day of the week.
I don't see why the "hardcore" raiders can't spare an extra 45 minutes a week to at LEAST get their 10 arena games in and score some points. Sure, they won't be a top tier team most likely, but they will still be earning respectable points... especially if it's a 5v5. Keep raiding, play a couple arenas a week, colelct the points, and buy the gear you want/need.
Drysc makes sense. If it really only involves an hour or so to qualify for arena points each week, just shut up and go do it. Chances are if you have an arena team made from your raiding friends, you probably already have decent coordination and an understanding of each other's skills... that's a headstart to a decent arena team.
Halicante Jun 14th 2007 12:09PM
Like people are saying, arena gear is for PVP and raiding gear is for raiding. I have some of the best raiding gear possible for a mage at this point in the game and most guilds' progression, but with 6k hp, I get destroyed in arena pvp. I've accepted that. I've also accepted that the arena gear isn't worth my time - for me, it's not that good for PVE purposes. Locks like it a little better because it has lots of stam, but eh. Resilience over spell hit/dam/crit for PVE? No thanks.
But it is fun going into bgs and sniping with my gear. I can blow up a few clothies in the time it takes for me to be noticed and that's just plain good times. It's nothing I take seriously though.
I have nothing but mad respect for good PVPers. I wish I were better at it. Alas, it's not meant to be!
Daveti Jun 14th 2007 12:12PM
I'm personally just annoyed that arena is the only way to get PVP purples now. It used to be that PVP was a good alternative for the solo player to gear up and at least have a few good purples, now there is truly no option for the solo player. And nobody better say "faction purples" because they suck. I have blues better than that junk.
therationalpi Jun 14th 2007 12:57PM
I think there is a perfect dichotomy between the PvP epics and the PvE epics. They are as intended, geared towards how you got them. As a tank, if I were to wear th gladiator gear to Magtheridon, I would be horribly under geared. Similarly, if I was to try to wear my 500+ defense into an arena match, I would get pwned.
The difference is much smaller for people who do the same thing either way, DPSers. But in the end, your mana pool means a lot in PvE but not in PvP, so there is still a huge difference for the two.
There are very few items that carry over as being the best on both sides of the fence.
Freehugz Jun 14th 2007 12:46PM
#8 I'd like to see these blues that are better for pvp than the pvp rewards
theRaptor Jun 14th 2007 12:46PM
This argument has nothing to do with how good the gear is, or what it is best for. It is people with e-peen envy about other people having more purple items.
It is truly sad that people can't enjoy themselves and hope other people enjoy themselves as well.
amasen Jun 14th 2007 12:50PM
Just because the raiders want to have the best gear and no one else to have it, I want to side with the Arena people. Why? Well raiders get all the good content. All the good stories and exciting boss fights. They get all the best unique rings/trinkets and most unique looks... What do arena people get, they get some gear and user generated fights...
I think raiders need to be happy they get the game designed for them from all the best fights to generally the best items, and ALL THE LORE.
Coherent Jun 14th 2007 12:55PM
I think Blizz is kind of shooting themselves in the foot by making two sets of gear "seperate but equal" in this context. They're motivating people to extreme behavior (both obsessive raiding & pvp are extreme behavior) with "ultimate power equipment" as the reward.
But if you know that there's no single ultimate set of equipment, will people still be motivated towards their particular activity?
Blizzard seems to think yes, but the only remaining cool-factor motivator is the graphics on the gear itself. So Blizzard is staking a lot based on cool-looking gear. I hope they have some badass new costume designers on staff.
Ryan Jun 14th 2007 1:12PM
@6 Depends on your class really; with the speccing mechanism currently in place, certain classes (such as the warrior) cannot spec for both PvE encounters and PvP without seriously gimping themselves in either playstyle. Personally, I'd like to see free respecs so people can enjoy all of the game, rather than just a subset of it and be bored the rest of the time.
PyroAmos Jun 14th 2007 1:07PM
They should be roughly equal, but require the same amount of time/money investment. It is a true statement, as i've proved on my own, get a good 5 ppl team with the right classes full pve speced with decent kara gear together, run 10-15 arenas and get your rating up to 1600, 1700 on a 5v5, then just do 10 games a week and you get your arena set very quickly with a investment of about 2 or 3 hours a week and a 1 time cost to start a team split 5 ways. compare that to raiding which involves 4-5 hours a night and multiple wipes/repair bills. They should release the new arena tier, but when they reset teams they should reset them with 1000 arena points, so some level of skill is required to get a rating above 1500, add a multiplier that looks like (AP = arena points after current calculation, M=matchest), AP*(0.001*M)=AP, so if you play only 10 games and your rating would give you 500 points under current system it would be 500*(0.001*10) or 5 points, if you played 1000 games it would be 500*(0.001x1000) or 500 points, 1000 games is in close proximity to the amount of time raiding would require. Also deaths in arenas should give durability damage to offset the cost of repair bills that raiding involves.
if they don't do something like that, that makes arenas require skill, time and gold then arena will continue to be free epic set (pvp version).
Quoi Jun 14th 2007 1:20PM
@14
Stupidest post ever.
Viet Jun 14th 2007 1:43PM
@14, No.
Anyways, I do a little of both, leaning more towards PvP. I agree that arena gear is easier to get. As was said before, PvP sets were made for PvP and PvE for PvE. One thing I do not want to see ever again is raiders dominating PvP in BGs, world PvP, etc like back in the day. Its good to see two different paths people can take to get geared.
chaz Jun 14th 2007 1:44PM
Gear collecting is the reward system for the end game. In lieu of levels, we get purples. But is that what we should focus on?
I play PvE because I like working strategically with a team. Others like like to work tactically on a BG or in the arena. This is supposed to be fun, and I don't think people realize it. I think the mentality has become too work-like, imho.
If you don't just enjoy the game a bit, and focus only on gear collection, you might just get what you wished for - the best gear. Then what? How long before you quit if you had the best gear?
Futura Jun 14th 2007 2:19PM
I'm sorry, but i think raiding gear should have a slight edge overall. It's just a more elitist way. Takes more effort, more time, and is not something you can simply farm points for. You lose to a boss, you don't get gear. You lose in arena? You still get a little honor. I think it's nice they give the pvper's some pretty nice gear for putting in a lil time, but to make it equal to raid gear?... then honestly what the hell is the point to raiding then? Enjoying each other's company for hours clearing trash mobs? GTFO. If you can't raid cause of the time it takes, or your more casual... you should suck it up and get gear that reflects that. Period.
And for those who complain that it was the character's dominating pvp battlegrounds/world pvp with full raid gear... i never saw any of that. Learn to play your class well and you can beat anyone regardless of gear.
Kurisu Jun 14th 2007 2:51PM
It really sucks that they have basically said SCREW YOU to anyone who wants get better gear through regular PVP. Where are the new battleground rewards? Or even a new battleground? Getting 50+ tokens from any one battleground isn't that easy, and is pretty hard if your battlegroup is empty.
You either Arena, Raid, or get your butt whipped in no time flat.