Patch 5.2 interview with Dave Kosak
Inside an old alt's vault
The latest patch 5.2 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news"Stranglethorn Hole" and the doom of casual WoW?
by David Bowers 
Jun 14th 2007 at 3:01PM
One of the main problems our readers cited was leveling boredom. The game before Outland is a bottleneck for casual players who want to explore other classes and playstyles but find that getting where they want to be with their new favorite alt would take more tedium and repetition than they're willing to tolerate. Some have the patience and dedication for it, but for others it feels like an impassible jungle.
Stranglethorn Vale, sometimes called the "Stranglethorn Hole" (coined by Tobold in reference to black holes, I think), has been the prime example of 1-60 leveling boredom, because at some point between levels 30 and 45, quests in most other areas just dry up, and you're left with little choice other than to help out the goblins in Booty Bay. The Gaming Fascist complains that he couldn't get any characters through the Vale without it feeling like "an affliction or a chore, something I don't really enjoy and fall back to when times get too boring." This was especially infuriating for him since he apparently chose a PvP server and he got ganked a lot there. Anyone tends to feel frustrated and hopeless when your goal is so far away that you have no reasonable means to achieve it.
We took a light-hearted look into the future a couple weeks ago, to see what solutions might present themselves in a few years as this problem gets increasingly severe. The fact is that has to be done for casuals who can't or don't want to go raiding, and if trying out new classes and isn't really a feasible option, then what's to prevent them from feeling stuck with nothing to do? More reputations to grind?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Leveling, Alts
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
java Jun 14th 2007 5:33PM
For every lvl 70 character you have you get a 10% xp bonus for lvl'ing an Alt - 30% bonus maximum.
A fair and reasonable alternative.
1) May bring people back to the game who've got 70's and got worn but burned out.
2) Allow some people to get back into the mid lvl content who've turned their alts into bank alts.
3) Allows people who've got other toons to more readily explore other classes (pro's and con's) and make them a bit more educated at the end game lvl.
4) Since serious faction grinding is still part of the end game process, it wouldn't detract from the committment required.
kavaa Jun 20th 2007 5:25PM
k, let me preface this with, I am a casual player, I tend to run many toons. Enough so that I have trouble telling who is an alt and main. I started pre BC in november and just hit 62 with my hunter and am loving Outlands.
So why wont blizzard update 1-60 content?
The problem you run in to is percentages. What % of players are 60+. Those are the ones the patch is geared toward. Lets consider the fact that BC came out 5 mounts ago. Many are about done with the new content. Granted Nihilum was the first due to an obsessive need to be first, But it may only be a few months for the next Illidan death. Blizzard has there work cut out for them to deliver the next patch for these players and have the content last any time at all. An 8 month life-span on content that is meant to last 1+ years is a problem. This means more focus on end game content that will last longer and be harder to finnish.
So if their largest player base are 70 now, why would they work on new 20-70 content? It wont do them much good when those players are going to focus on 70-80.
And as for new content being a reason for some one to start over, you still are only going to get a few who are willing to start over and give up what they had created to go and see new lands to grind from 1-80 in.
Im all for the 300-400% XP boost, have a trinket that you can buy at 70 and mail to an alt that gives you an XP boost. If you are new suck it up and learn to pay :P but if you want to try a new class, make it easier.
tag Jun 14th 2007 5:46PM
I already posted in the other thread concerning player fall-off, but I like some points concerning leveling "buffs."
To the ones saying everyone's too hyped up on instantgratificati-itis, you really need to get 3 characters beyond 60 to understand the grueling nature of it. I, too, played D&D (yes, the D&D before AD&D) and text-based MUDS (which condoned botting, as it took days of played time for just one level, in the higher tiers).
I'm of the opinion that we WILL see a way to level through the lower levels soon. Blizzard is not foolish enough (I hope) to expect new subscribers to slog through 70 levels of questing/grinding to get to the new content and play with their friends, once the next expansion comes out. It might require us to continually complain about the grind for a bit, but at the very least I foresee them trying to cap the leveling time to around what it required to initially get from 1-60 prior to TBC (i.e. if it took you 14 days played time to get from 1-60 before TBC, it should now take you 14 days to get from 1-70).
Here's hoping some CMs/Devs drop by to read this article and the ensuing comments.
Nubsause Jun 14th 2007 5:57PM
I play on a PvP server horde side.
STV is great for leveling (tons of easy quests and good xp), but the only reason I hate that place is being constantly camped by ?? alliance. Its hard and rare to go about 5-10 minutes without being killed by groups of 3+ aliance or a lvl ?? coming to 1-shot you and run out of sight waiting for you to rez just to gank you again.
I have a lvl 70 alt that i can logon to to kill all the people that attack me (it seems as tho im on him more then my other guy just killing other players that attacked me.)
Krick Jun 14th 2007 6:28PM
While the ganking situation in STV is out of control on a PVP server, Tarren Mill is far worse. I'm leveling a new Blood Elf (Paladin Jewelcrafter, of course) and I'm doing everything in my power to not have to step foot in Tarren Mill at all. I'm level 24 now and I think that I might just move onto Ashenvale and/or Stonetalon Mountains instead of TM.
Uninformed Jun 14th 2007 6:25PM
As a new player on a PVP server, I'm finding Stranglethorn Vale a total pain in the backside. Just once, I'd like to get some quests done without being one-shotted by ?? Level players every five minutes.
In fact, being one-shotted anywhere by players 10+ levels higher is aggravating since I don't have any way of countering this. Why doesn't Blizzard introduce some sort of level range system for free-for-all PVP?
Stormsinger Jun 14th 2007 6:39PM
I didn't mind STV the 4 times I've run toons through it.. except for that damned Gorilla Sinew quest... But then, I'm doing this all from the Horde side. Really, I think STV is a heck of a lot less annoying as Horde than Alliance. You have Grom'Gol as a FP and Blimp Stop. That makes travel so much easier. Last I looked Alliance ONLY get an FP at BB. So the area where you start STV is a long run from the north or the south. For the Horde it's right off the Wyvern.
Also, since STV is right after Desolace (UGH) or Southern 1000 Needles, I still find it almost a relief.
Of course STV is still a needless bottle neck. And, I imagine, on PvP servers you need to spend even more time there since ganking is gonna eat your time as well.
I guess the problem is that WoW leveling looks like an hour glass. You start with a lot of variety and many quests tailored to your class/race. Then it narrows more and more, until the worst at 30s to early 40s and STV. After that it opens up again with lots more zones and new quest lines. If Blizz had just added, say, 2 new Azeroth zones in TBC with a level range of 30-40 and 35-48 or so I'd be a lot more excited about leveling at alt. Just knowing that Desolace and the SAME OLD QUESTS in STV are not in my future would be really invigorating.
Shiro Jun 14th 2007 6:37PM
If I'm ever lucky enough to get an oppurtunity to make my own MMO, things like this would never be a problem.
But, alas, add it to the list of things you'll never get, right? Like super powers and Angelina Jolie.
Big Dan Jun 26th 2007 7:36PM
I actually loved levelling from 35-44 in STV! I keep going back to BB to find still more quests that need to be done. It gets to the point where I just needed a break so I am down in Tanaris now questing for a few levels before I go back to do some more. I hope I find someone to help with those group quests next weekend so I can get my dungeon stuff done. But I am just a casual player. (very casual = started last summer and my main is 44. Though I do have 8 alts above 20.) So Im not doing too bad. But I am looking for somewhere else for them to level. My belf hunter is definitely working towards 1000 needles and the flats then to Tanaris for fun quests. (I do love Gadgetzan!!)
So thats my humble opinion and I can definitely understand the want for more content but for someone like me with altitus whos never even made it to the end; everything seems ok so far. I just wish there were less group instances. all my alts were started when I couldn't find time/group for instances etc.
Oh well!
Ambrose Bierce Jun 14th 2007 7:34PM
@45: At least Hillsbrad has the potential for amusement: for example, a few days ago, a couple of 70s waltzed into Southshore and disabled the flight path for several minutes. I agree with you that Tarren Mill is a gankers' paradise though - I did the Yeti quests and got out as quick as I could.
mattyt17 Jun 14th 2007 8:09PM
Please remember that 1/2 of the game is the experience of leveling whether that be alts or mains and that MANY other MMOs are more strenuous and torturous in terms of leveling...FFXI comes to mind.
GAH.
JS Jun 14th 2007 8:15PM
There hasn't been a more timely post here on the insider for me personally. My Horde Druid has been stuck at level 29 for more than 3 weeks. I started it 3 months ago and have been consistently levelling up through Ashenvale most recently. But now I find Thousand needles and Desolace especially fugly and have had a bad preintroduction to those areas due to me dying constantly when i took a peek at those zones back at level 24 or 25. It was truly aggravating. So now that i'm more level appropriate for them as the next step I just don't want the hassle. The inertia has been overwhelming, I have been doing WSG a little bit, but otherwise I am frozen in terms of moving forward. It also doesn't help that STV being du=iscussed here is a few levels after Needles and Desolace. I guess the only answer is to group up, suck it up and level up. If you find yourself in a similar quandary hit me up for some pug action. Rhodos on Blackrock.
BenMS Jun 14th 2007 8:23PM
Gotta agree with... whoever it was that said STV should be clear-felled. Although, with the Apocalypse Now references in the Colonel Kurzen quests, maybe they should Napalm the entire peninsula.
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning... Smell's like Victory"
Barring this, however, a flight point at Nesingwary's Expedition would go a long way to making the place less of a nightmare.
Grimtar Jun 14th 2007 9:52PM
Sure, Id like some new quests... but I like STV!
There used to be a lot of PvP happening in that zone, but since there are few people levelling these days, I often go for hours without seeing anyone to seek and destroy (hooray for levelling a Druid and Rogue simultaneously on a PvP server).
#12 was right about quest density, and when youre trying to level quickly, thats what you want. If only the Barrens was the same size as STV, Id like that zone a lot more - the only thing I dont like about the Barrens is all that damned running.
@19: It will never happen. Not at Nessys, anyway. Maybe at that little outpost right to the north of STV, near the Deadwind Pass bridge, though.
Juliah Jun 14th 2007 9:38PM
I have four characters over level 40 (two over level 50). I am so sick of Stranglethorn Vale that I'm just not sure how I'm going to get the 30s I have past their current level ... there seriously needs to be more 30-40 content.
Jamus Jun 15th 2007 9:04AM
I hate getting stuck in the "group quest hole". I seem to always get to the point where all my quests are "group" or "dungeon" quests. I don't mind grouping with others, but as a casual player, it can be quite hard to find others doing the same quest when I actually have time to play.
Varatil Jun 15th 2007 12:12AM
I personally loved STV, so bloody much. The ganking didn't become helpless very often since so many people seemed ripe to futily help me. The quests were never very difficult and didn't have a huge distance between giver and target. Skinners will make a killing here simply by doing nesingwary quest (if you appreciate this guy, you will love nagrand), and on the topic of cash this is the lowest level zone available to neutral auctioning. Also, I can hardly stand non-planty zones, night-elven: Great, Loch Modan=Dandy, Nagrand=My favorite zone visualy in the entire game, so the two major equivalent zones, desolace and badlands, were right out.
A word of warning though, STV SUCKS to be alone in. For the number of eltie quests, for the ganking, and for the simple fact that having another person to play with is great. When you get into STV, you're first action should be to ask around for a quest buddy, period.
Ailya Jun 15th 2007 12:47AM
They definitely need to do something. I started playing the game in December. I was playing a human mage and hit 34 and was like what now.. STV. Played it a little and quickly got sick of running from the top of STV to booty bay, or flying from BB to one of the flightpoints north of STV and running back down.
I kinda lost interest and started playing 360 more then Burning Crusade came out. Started over with a Blood Elf hunter on a PvP server. Hit 32 in Hillsbrad and can't do anything in that area or in STV without getting ganked.
Went back to my 360. My friend got me playing again, this time as a Night elf warrior on a PvE server, and I'm at 38 and I'm sick of STV. I actually kind of miss PvP but I'd never be this far cause of gankage.
Ailya Jun 15th 2007 12:51AM
They definitely need to do something. I started playing the game in December. I was playing a human mage and hit 34 and was like what now.. STV. Played it a little and quickly got sick of running from the top of STV to booty bay, or flying from BB to one of the flightpoints north of STV and running back down.
I kinda lost interest and started playing 360 more then Burning Crusade came out. Started over with a Blood Elf hunter on a PvP server. Hit 32 in Hillsbrad and can't do anything in that area or in STV without getting ganked.
Went back to my 360. My friend got me playing again, this time as a Night elf warrior on a PvE server, and I'm at 38 and I'm sick of STV. I actually kind of miss PvP but I'd never be this far cause of gankage.
Ailya Jun 15th 2007 12:53AM
They definitely need to do something. I started playing the game in December. I was playing a human mage and hit 34 and was like what now.. STV. Played it a little and quickly got sick of running from the top of STV to booty bay, or flying from BB to one of the flightpoints north of STV and running back down.
I kinda lost interest and started playing 360 more then Burning Crusade came out. Started over with a Blood Elf hunter on a PvP server. Hit 32 in Hillsbrad and can't do anything in that area or in STV without getting ganked.
Went back to my 360. My friend got me playing again, this time as a Night elf warrior on a PvE server, and I'm at 38 and I'm sick of STV. I actually kind of miss PvP but I'd never be this far cause of gankage.