If you are deep frost and out dps your deep fire mages, then your fire mages suck and need to L2P. No question about it.

I loved frost. Frost is great. Awesome for soloing, pvp, smaller scale raiding. Frost is not best dps in raids due to its inherently lower damage with the survivability tradeoff and binary resists. The math has been done. Threads like http://forums.subcreation.net/viewtopic.php?id=3705 and anything Lhivera/Irontygress make shows this.

Stick 3 fire mages with a shadow priest and an elemental shaman and make a lock throw up a CoE, and the frost mages will get blown away. Raid groups should be made for maximum dps, not mana conservation. Survivability in raids as a mage is a moot point - if you need ice block because you pull aggro, then you're horrible. If you think that ice barrier will help you when you get in the way of the boss and hit for 30k, then you need some serious rethinking. Fire mages in a raid group like this will keep up with or even surpass locks, depending on fights.

I know full well that frost is useful on some fights - why blizzard locks out whole trees on only mages pisses me off to no end. Al'ar and Illidan adds are fire immune and Hydrosses adds are frost immune. This is a whole other issue. All those mages who think Blizz should make a shadow immune boss so locks have to spec demo and dps priest have to go lolsmite spec, say aye. But never will happen...wishful thinking on my part.

In conclusion, I like spelldamage.com. It's fun to play with. There are also some nice calculators and tools here http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=202910352&sid=1

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