Officers' Quarters: Won't someone think of the children?

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
Warcraft players come from nearly every demographic on the planet, so it's virtually inevitable that you're going to run into people from the dreaded and often misunderstood 10-16 age bracket. In my two-plus years with the game, I've dealt with all kinds, from the polite and enthusiastic kids who are always eager to help someone out and gladly accept advice about their class, to the nightmarish brats who come online purely to spread their antisocial hatemongering and basically use the game's chat channels as their personal repository for four-letter words.
At WoW Insider, we've told you of our woes and even ranted a little bit. Now one reader wants to know how to handle the younger players in a guild:
How can you teach etiquette, chatting or otherwise, to younger audiences? Should they be punished or treated differently? How patient is patient enough before severe actions have to be taken?
Patrick (Kul Tiras)
I'll never forget my first run-in with a younger player. A week or two after the game launched, my first character was in his mid-20s, doing quests with some friends in Stonetalon Mountains. One of my friends invited a hunter whom he had been questing with earlier. We set out to take down the infamous gnome Gerenzo Wrenchwhistle in his well-guarded wooden structure high above Cragpool Lake. The hunter was on his way. Ten minutes later, he was still on his way. He wasn't far from us, but he wasn't making much progress. We asked him what he was doing, and he said he was skilling up swords. We asked him to take care of that later. He slowly made his way toward us. Finally, we started clearing goblins. He proceded to run up to every mob and melee it with his two swords. I inspected him and found that the swords were a pair of identical level 11 weapons. When I suggested he upgrade them, he said he liked them because they looked "kool." When I asked him where his pet was, he said he didn't have one because he couldn't find a "kool" one. He thought it was amusing to jump around constantly, which wasn't such a good idea in this particular location. Just as we engaged Gerenzo, he hopped over the railing and plummeted hundreds of feet into the lake below. We all had a good laugh about that one, and the hunter was good-natured enough to laugh about it too.
That player wasn't a bad kid -- he wasn't being malicious or trying to ruin other people's fun. He was just having fun the way he wanted to. We would run into him from time to time, and it was always interesting to see what he had equipped and how he was fighting. It made for some good stories. But would we ever want him in our guild? Not a chance.
The easiest way to deal with younger players, if you don't want to deal with them, is to avoid recruiting them at all. Ask for everyone's age when they apply and you'll know right away (assuming they tell the truth) if they are too young for your guild. My guild doesn't have a strict age policy. We'll consider younger players if they seem mature and know how to play. But in reality, anyone below 18 really has to impress us to be considered.
If, like my guild, yours has a number of parents, they might want to have their kids in the guild with them. I find it hard to outright say no to this request. Instead, I go over a few issues as part of the deal. First of all, in a guild of adults it's very difficult to keep the chat channels PG all the time -- not that I would want to if I could. So I always warn the parents that the discussions can become R-rated at the drop of a hat, and that they shouldn't bring their kids in if they are worried about the language. There are plenty of family-friendly guilds aren't there. Mine isn't one of them. If they've been in the guild long enough, they usually know all about that already, but it doesn't hurt to reinforce the point, since it might be something they hadn't considered.
As part of this issue, I tell them that even in our uncensored chat, certain topics like racism, homophobia, sexual assault, etc. are off-limits, and won't be tolerated. We don't have room in our guild rankings for a rank with no access to guild chat, so the only way to shut someone up if they repeatedly cross the line is to remove them from the guild.
In my opinion, it's not our job as officers to teach our members how to behave in a social setting. That's for the parents to do, whether they also play the game or not.
Third, I say that I expect the same level of common courtesy from our younger members as I do anyone else. For anyone with a position of authority, "special treatment" is really just another way to say you tolerate someone breaking the rules, and I don't. I'm always lenient the first time someone exercises poor judgment (unless they deliberately ninja-loot something), but repeat offenders are a different story.
And finally, I let the parent know that I will hold them responsible for any inappropriate actions taken by their children.
Of course, it's all well and good to talk about these things, but what happens when the kid acts out and a parent isn't around? Some parents can be stubbornly oblivious to certain aspects of their kids' personalities, so always take a screen shot to back up your claims. That way, when you confront the parent about the situation later, you have better proof than your word against theirs. During the incident, you have to decide whether to take immediate action or to contact the parent(s) through in-game mail or your guild's Web site. I find the latter strategy to be more effective in the long run (if the situation isn't ruining the guild environment). As a guild leader, the worst thing you can do to the kid is kick him out of the guild, but the parents can take away their Warcraft access entirely. Also, if you attempt to discipline the child verbally in-game, the parent(s) might have a problem later with what you said.
Sometimes, however, you have to ask the kid to tone it down. Take a screen shot of this conversation as well -- you never know when a kid is going to lie and tell mom or dad that you called them a naughty word. If worst comes to worst and they just aren't cooperating, you might have to remove them from the guild, either permanently or temporarily. If everyone in the guild is being disrupted by their behavior, your members will thank you for it. It's hard to say what situation might warrant taking this step. But trust me, when you reach that point, you'll know. In the meantime, if the kid has the potential for trouble, you can always insist that the parent always be online at the same time.
For kids without parents, it gets a lot tougher. There's no safety net, and they can bring a world of hurt on your guild's reputation without even leaving Orgrimmar. If you're considering recruiting a younger member, do some background research. Check the official forums to see if they've made any inflammatory posts. Talk to their former GL and ask how he or she behaved. Finally, run a dungeon or two together and see if the player is worth the risk. There are a number of bright, polite kids that can be valuable guild members. But there are plenty who aren't as well. So be cautious and know what you're getting into.
Having younger members can be a big hassle, so make sure you're prepared for it. Just remember: Someday you might have your own children who want to hang out in Azeroth with you, so treat all players with courtesy, no matter their age!
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Super Guest Man 9000 Jun 25th 2007 11:40AM
Gerenzo Wrenchwhistle is a gnome, not a goblin.
Corrodias Jun 25th 2007 11:55AM
I think we have one younger player in our guild. He doesn't like to talk on vent, but on the rare occasion that he does, he sounds pretty young. I haven't been watching him in raids, but i saw him standing around for a few seconds doing nothing on a boss fight one recently, so i need to start keeping an eye on him to make sure he's actually going all-out. He also doesn't have great gear and seems to be in no particular hurry to improve it outside of the raids. Then again, i may be misunderstanding the situation, as i hardly keep tabs on how much work my guildmates are putting into it. I just growl at the bad guys and pop 'em a friendly Mangle. It's a simple life.
John Vilsack Jun 25th 2007 12:12PM
When laying out the infrastructure for our guild, We developed an application process that immediately filtered out younger players. We ask a variety of questions, have the apps submitted, and vote on them.
For the most part, the application process has worked wonderfully well. We can tell who "fits" in the guild and who doesn't. There have been a few "how dare you ask me to fill out an application for a video game group" but these losses are more than made up for in the quality of member we see today.
I understand the concept of trying to nurture the younger players and teach them proper etiquette...but I am not raising nor am I going to babysit someone else's children. I would venture to say that a majority of the problems in our guild have been caused by those in the "18-21" bracket (I quote it because these probably end up being kids that are lying about their age) that either cannot respect the ladies in our guild or make stupid chauvinistic comments trying to fit in.
We do have one young adult in our guild, who was vouched for by his father. He is honestly quite enjoyable to group with, because he understands that there are real, live people on the other side of his computer screen, and he respects that.
solidsnake13 Jun 25th 2007 12:15PM
I agree with the points you make here. I really don't waste my time with family friendly guilds.
It's not like it's our job to be e-parents for e-kids. To hell with censoring guild chat.
Arisanna Jun 25th 2007 12:20PM
We have some parents in our guild and they recently brought their kids into the game. They're all very young but they only sign on when mom and dad are around. Our chat is a bit R-rated but we use PG language, ala Shrek, so the kids don't understand when we're being filthy. They're pretty quiet so far, just enjoying the scenery and playing with mom and dad. We're obviously a very casual guild.
itsthemechanic Jun 25th 2007 12:44PM
I absolutely cannot stand little kiddies in WoW. I've lost count how many times I was in a PuG that fell apart before the end boss of an instance because somebody bailed with "mom is sending me to bed/school tomorrow/mom needs the computer" and the like. Instant perma-/ignore.
It's nothing against the kids per se, just the way they blatantly take the piss. Gotta go to bed in an hour? Don't join a Maraudon group then. Easy as that.
You got no respect for your fellow players, I don't have no love for you either..
As far as a $75/month server for players 25+? Sign me up. I'll be among the first to throw down my credit card details.
Scott Andrews Jun 25th 2007 12:28PM
@1:
Thanks for the correction! I didn't look closely at the pic -- just saw the green skin and small stature and thought "goblin." It's been a while since I crossed wrenches with Gerenzo!
native Jun 25th 2007 12:49PM
i'd be on a adult only server quicker you can aggro a murloc.
Monistatus Jun 25th 2007 12:59PM
I actually had a run-in this past weekend with a young'un.
I decided to respec my 70 Rogue with swords for the extra DPS for Kara, and wanted to go somewhere easy to level my sword skill.
So I figured a visit to my old pal Van Cleef was in order.
I'm flying to Stormwind, and something pops up on general chat: "LF1M DPS Deadmines"
So I figure, okay, I'll go, give the lower levels a treat and blast them through the Deadmines. They get a lot of quick, easy, loot, I get to level my swords fast.
So they were overjoyed that a 70 would want to come... they were all 17-20. Great. Should be fun.
So we get in there, having a good time, and this guy (who was very new to the game, and about 13, I found out soon enough) starts Need rolling on *everything* that drops.
A Shadowgem drops, and he rolls need on it, "because he needs it to level up his jewelcrafting".
At first, I was pretty pissed. Not because of the loot, God knows I don't need it, but because he was ninjaing. So I spent a little time in a safe location explaining the nuances of needing/greeding... simple stuff like if it's a class upgrade, go ahead and roll need, but it's polite to equip a BoE that drops so that everyone knows you aren't just going to AH it, etc. I explained that in most cases most people playing will happily let you roll Need if you *ask first*.
He listened, (hopefully) absorbed it, and was great the rest of the run.
I hope he stays like that.
Flake Jun 25th 2007 1:00PM
As im only just 16 I would fall under the category of "child" in the WoW community.
I personally can't stand people who try and put us younger gamers down because of our age, I do agree however that some do get in the way of having fun yet fellow gamers cannot say that this is simply the under 18's who are the cause of it. All im trying to say is that not every under 18 is a little annoying brat. Im sure many are:p yet i just cant stand guilds who will not accept under 18's. We are after all just as valuable as any other gamer out there.
Quoi Jun 25th 2007 1:03PM
I'd like stodgy old farts like the two above me off my server too. I'm 21, and for me to be lumped in with some 12 year old tards is unfair. I'm respectful to most people that deserve it, well-liked on my server, and I fancy myself a fairly intelligent guy. For these posters to tell me that my age disqualifies me from their elite circle is pompous and hypocritical (weren't you young once?).
Flake Jun 25th 2007 1:02PM
@3 that is a fair way of going about it. Sorry about writing some of that and it may have been said before but i only saw the first two comments:p
Flake Jun 25th 2007 1:02PM
@3 that is a fair way of going about it. Sorry about writing some of that and it may have been said before but i only saw the first two comments for some reason.
Theserene Jun 25th 2007 1:09PM
We don't ban younger players from our guild, but we do make it perfectly clear that if they cannot handle adult language and discussions (and I don't mean just swearing, we had a conversation about S&M the other night) then they have no business being there.
In the UK, the game itself has a '12' rating, so there should not be anyone younger than that playing it.
It is not my job to make anything kid-friendly. If they can play like adults then I will treat them as such. If they cannot play as adult, or woe betide I get someone's mother in-game causing a stir about how our language is 'inappropriate' for her youngster, then it's instant boot.
Likewise for anyone of ANY age who acts like a complete moron.
Parents who allow their kids to play WoW do have to be aware that this is primarily an adult game, and it is their job, not ours, to make sure that their kids have a safe time.
s1kat Jun 25th 2007 1:16PM
In my current guild we have a pretty young paladin tank (around 13-14)
and he is easily one of the best tanks on the server and the best Paladin tank I have ever seen, despite his immaturity.
Theserene Jun 25th 2007 1:15PM
And no, we don't have any parents in our guild. Childfree adults all the way! It just ended up that way...
jess Jun 25th 2007 3:33PM
My guild allows under 18 year old players in and for the most part they are all right people. I think that there is a lot of hypocrisy from older players who forget that they too probably were not the model of maturity and manners when they were kids. I see a lot of immaturity in players over 18 all the time.
Chris M Jun 25th 2007 1:43PM
I have to disagree with completely 'banning' young people. I'm 26, and it comes as a bit of a shock to some of the people I play with when I roll on a new server, because I tend to sway to internet lingo when communication is necessary. I'm quick to use 'LFM' and 'LFG', I 'WTB' in trade channels.
I think younger people can be very mature- I have several WOW friends younger than I, and the ones I associate with are highly mature. I've been surprised once or twice by the actual age of people I was dealing with; and in all honesty, I don't mind younger people, and restricting them all from MMORPGs is a vain accusation of immaturity. I /ignore people that use /yell and /say to hold private conversations-
"LOL U WANT ENCHANTS?"
"K 2G 4 IT K?"
"LOL 2 MOAR AMRITE?"
I do a /who, and find out they're in a capital city, half the map away. I hover right over my /ignore macro.
It's people like that I'd love to cut from WOW, and people that ninja in instances; but young people with a sense of intelligence and maturity I can deal with, and enjoy dealing with.
Chris
Pingmeister Jun 25th 2007 2:56PM
I have played with plenty of well-"spoken", mature teens and pre-teens.
I have also played with a fair amount of awful people 25+.
I'd still join an adult server if they were available.
To use a real example of why:
XTRMNINJA: OMG u hav 2 come 2 barrens lol
Rest of Guild: Why?
XTRMNINJA: come 2 barrens fast
Rest of Guild: Why?
XTRMNINJA: u hav 2 c this
Rest of Guild: What do we have to see?
XTRMNINJA: come quik
Rest of Guild (who haven't ignoed him yet): Tell us what it is. Are you being attacked?
XTRMNINJA: i am on roof of tower i dun no how but i got 2 the roof lol
Rest of Guild sarcastically: Take a screenshot. You'll be famous.
XTRMNINJA: 4 rls?
Sam Jun 25th 2007 3:01PM
I'm fourteen, but a lot of people don't really believe me when I'm required to tell them. Unlike a lot of "kids" my age, I take the time to type coherently. I'm constantly getting bashed for it, even when I've done nothing wrong. On the rare occassion, I'll find someone smart enough to realize that kind of behavior isn't age specific.
It isn't just kids. I've met co-eds who are just as annoying. My last guild leader was nineteen and had an alcohol problem..... As you can imagine, it wasn't a ton of fun to have him on vent during raids.